once a spike always a spike
 

i made thispost last year..thoughid start some more controversy:D..
what do you think is a spike always a spike orwill it someday be a 10ptp&y on your wall?

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Nah, spikes are spikes, next year is another story. Some spikes are true inferior animals, but so many more spikes are simply yearlings that were late dropped fawns the previous year, or even a great button buck with small spikes instead of buttons. I personally know of a buck that grossed 208 typical that was a spike his first year.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

There's one thing i dont understand. How a person can tell that a spike one year is the 208" typical. I mean, theres so many spikes and basket racks, and unless there was something physically distinctive, like a double throat patch or busted leg, how do you know the deer that was a spike last year is a 14" wide 8 pointer this year? 90% of the time, i really don't think you can say you know an older buck was a spike his first year..

slayer

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I agree with slayer.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I have heard the argument both ways, but I personally do not believe the "once a spike always a spike" theory. There is a story in this months QDMA magazine that tracks a buck from spike to 160 class 10 pt. Deerslayer 37, I use game cameras all year on my place, and I know which deer are going to show up when I move my cameras into certain areas. I use digital cameras and have HUNDREDS of pictures in my computer from the past few years. I do find that the populations change just before and during the rut, but by mid December, the familiar faces show back up.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I have seen some spikes that have remained spikes their entire life. Last year I ahd a spike around and this year he is a nice 6..

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Are skinny people always skinny,OR fat people always fat?????????

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I think it can go both ways. He might be a spike because of bad genetics, which will never improve, or he might be a spike because of bad nutrition, or he might be a spike because he was just younger than everyone else.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Spend some time around pen deer, and you'll see that spikes can flourish. It's not too common for them to become 160 class deer...but it happens.

I've seen a deer with it's first rack (at 1 1/2 yrs) be a 10pt that scored in the 110's. He was with another deer that was a crappy 3pt at the same age. The crappy 3pt was a much bigger deer at 4 1/2 yrs.

I know the pen deer aren't a perfect representation, but they are still the same species.

My feeling is that MANY spikes will be basket racks at best....but some could become nice deer.

If spikes are always spikes, the state of PA will be overrun with spikes in a few years...With AR's they'll always be safe. LOL

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I thought the spike myth had been busted years ago!

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Especially if someone shoots him that year. Not going to get any bigger ;)

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Slayer Bill Yox raises deer so Im sure the deer he refers to must have been one that he raised from a yearling and observed him as he got older ... Bill is a highly respected taxidermist and I feel sure he speaks from experience.

DD

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

i remeber lat yr seeinga spike over its ears almost..













RE: once a spike always a spike - 8/14/2005 1:36:14 AM








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cardeer

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Are skinny people always skinny,OR fat people always fat????????? yea... most of the time

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I can answer this question with a negative! When I was a kid I was skinny as a rail.. Here I am 20 years later and I am a fatboy!

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I believe that it is a fifty fifty thing. some spikes will go on to bigger and better racks, while some will not. case in point, I shot a 3.5 yo spike with small browtines last year. big deer for my area, dressed 150.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Ah!!! the great spike debate!!!


Fact: Some spikes will awalys be spikes!!
Fact: Some spikes will change with the season!!
Fact: Some spikes will sire 150 plus Booner bucks!!
Fact: Genetics do play a role in this!!!!
Fact: Nutrition does play a role in this!!!

Personal choice: The people I hunt with and many more people I dont hunt with follow one QDMA rule, never cull a buck before he reaches 3.5 years of age... I personally have seen young spike deer (with distingusing body marks) grow into really nice 8-10pt bucks that would make most people proud to harvest...

ONE MORE FACT: this debate will go on forever!!!

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Genes and food are the important factors in deer developement. It has been proven over and over. I have personally seen 3 bucks that appeared like culls(by early standards and beliefs)turn into B&C quality bucks by the time they reached 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age. These deer were tagged so the results are confirmed.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

CARDEER: I do know that people are always..........................................pe ople.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Someone that I know raises a few deer. This first picture shows a spike at 1 1/2 years old and the next p[icture shows the same deer at 2 1/2 years old. They graze in a natural setting with no mineral supplements put out for them. This deer at 2 1/2 is by no means aBC buck but at 4 or 5 years old he is going to be very nice. Since I took the last picture of him, he is now an 8 point.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

N

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

In this area you would be hard pressed to find a spike that is older then 1 1/2 years old. Spikes will generally always grow into bigger and better bucks. But on some of the ranches thatI hunt we still shoot spike bucks, WHY? Because each year we must take off an X amount of deer, both bucks and does. When ever we look around and see several 6,7,8 point 1 1/2 year old bucks, deciding to shoot a spike of the same age is a pretty easy chose.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

DD was correct, I raise whitetails. Under natural conditions, some fawns are born very late, where herd numbers are too high, as well as in captivity. A late born fawn will be underweight going into the winter, and the following year have smaller antlers, and maybe even just spikes. He seems to always be a season behind, but he will develop, provided he has the genetics to be a big buck in the first place, good enough feed to reach his potential, and of course, lives long enough.

Another type of spike is a fawn who is born early enough and out of exceptional genetics. He might be able to produce polished spikes as a fawn that fall. Its not common, but it does happen. The easiest way to be sure is to look at the base. A fawn does not grow a pedical or rosette the first year, as the first antler, or button, is simply an extension of the pedical ramp. The following year, due to casting or shedding, he will grow some sort of pedical base or rosette.

If someone here wishes to help me out with resizing pics, I can send and post a 6 year account of how a buck goes from a spike to a 208 typical. Hey, Im with the majority here, lets not judge the skippers until they are old enough. Antlers are a true barometer of the animals health.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I say that for the most part if a buck is over 1 1/2 yrs of age and is still a spike with plenty of nutrition then more than likely he wont reach over a small 4 or 5 point.....

but if it does have the genentics and the right nutrition is will gradually get bigger

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I think some people are mistakeing cow horns with spikes.Cow horns have brow tines and there antlers grow stright up.We have seen a few of these and we do try and cull them,but we never shoot spikes.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I believe in the old school theory a RUNT is a RUNT, meaning MOST spikes won't have the true trophy potential as say a 1 1/2 year old 6pt or 8pt.

If you where a gambler....which theory would win the most money ?
Known good genetics, meaning.... what you see is.. what you see or betting on the late bloomer ?

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

In all honesty....where I hunt in central Florida...a spike is a trophy. In the Green Swamp WMA any deer taken is a trophy.
Chuck

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

GUYS THIS POST HAS GOT TO STOP!!! Anyone who wants to know about spikes just needs to talk to someone who raises deer. Pen raised deer some in spikes, 4's, and tens, and 200 inch bucks just like wild deer. Of course some spikes are small 6's their second year and never materialize into much.....just like some 4 pointers. But yes there are plenty of spikes that whos second set of horns is 120" eight pointer, and then their third year that 140" 10 we all love to see, and from there who knows. Every spike could be the next state record in 3-4 years....thats why you let them walk. But I agree that a trophy is up to each hunter. I just hope that the guys who hunt around me let them walk....but good luck to everyone this season.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Bill,

It sure wouldbe pretty neatto see your sequence pics. of that 208" buck. if you don't wanna post them here maybe you can PM them to me?

As for my take on the "great spike" debate...the only sure bet that I seeis that a dead spike surely won't get any bigger (as someone already pointed out).In my area here in NYI rarely see any spikes at all...I do see a few forkies every year, but most yearlingsthat I see haveanywhere from 5 to8-pts.Do they have any better genetics that aspike would? I honestly don't think you can accurately say for certain until they reach 3 or 4 yrs. old...a age which 85-90% of the buck in this area won't everlive to see.I firmly believe that the overwelming majority of spikes out there areyearlings andtheir under-developed antlers are aresultof being a late born fawn from the previous year or they're a biproduct of poor nutrition. Theonly non-yearling spike that I've ever seen wasa buck taken on a farm a couple of miles from my house in 2002. It was the weirdest looking buckI've ever seen...I'd guess he was a 3.5 yr. old that had thick 17-18" spikes thatcame straight up from his head and it looked justlike a spike elk. Definately a genetically inferior deer. The guy who shot itsaid that the deer was standing there with most of his head behind a treeand he thought that the spikes wereactually G2's.He went running up to the deer expecting to see amonster on the ground and it ended up being just a monster spike[:@].

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

I've had a few discussions with Bill Yox in another forum, and I would agree with Doctor Death,that Mr. Yoxisa very credible source, and his opinions are reliable.

In addition, I have done the research for this independently, and without the need/waste of time to cite my sources, I can say that I agree with Bill Yox's initial response to this issue. Data collected from both radio-collared wild deer, as well as deer held in captivity correlates to Mr. Yox's above-referenced position.

Generally speaking, aspike is not always a spike, but I'm sure somewhere, someday there was/is an exception.

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

if you dont like this post dont go to it all ive got to say and that pick of a spike is clearly going toget bigger theres litlle points coming off ofit

RE: once a spike always a spike
 

Everyone has there own opinion on this subject but if you can properly age a deer on the hoof and see one of those pot bellied thick necked scarred up bucks with only spikes then i would say go ahead and take him out of the herd.

I would have to say logically the easiest way to increase the antler size of your buck herd (out of the 3 categories that affect antlers - age, nutrition and genetics) it would be age.

I don't think that anyone is that proficient at agingdeer to know exactly how old a deer truly is. If you don't let them grow you will truly never know...whether he would be more than a spike.

Furthermore, the way genetics works it would probably be completely impossible to control the genetics of your deer herd in normal circumstances by just shooting spikes...by the time the season roles around and you take that spike he could have already bred with a dozen or more does spreading his genetics...also the does genetics come into play also.

I say let em grow and forget about them until the are big 6's or eights.