antler restriction and genetics
 

i talked to a fellow at a pennsylvania wally mart and his take on shooting only mature bucks allows all the small scrappy poor genetic bucks to tend the does during the rut. i seen a show about how rattle snakes are genetically changing because the ones that rattle are the ones that get caught. now nature according to that show is gonna be full of snakes that wont warn you before biting. can this happen with deer and antler genetics going backwards as a survival means..

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

I'm not sure how many thousands of years that rattlesnakes have been rattling, but I doubt a few hundred years of man knocking a few in the head will make a dramatic genetic change happen. Most of the smaller antler bucks are just immature bucks and have the same genetics as a buck that is 5 or 6 years ago. In other words if a 1 1/2 year old breeds a doe there shouldn't be a genetic catastrophy.

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

Yes, and there is a lot of history to back it up. To tell the truth, I can't remember any of the facts , but (and I know it could be my own) I'm sure there are a lot of recorded mistakes that man has made, playing "God", in the world of nature. I don't know why the cases of cwd in deer in N.Y. haven't rung a bigger bell. Those deer should have been the cream of the crop. Every thing qdm advocates believe in and where are they now, destroyed. I think man can help out nature, but when it tries to micro manage it, it's a recipe for disaster. For the short period though, a lot of money can be made, so it's not all bad, unless your not the one making it.:D

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

On the surface, the argument sounds good, but many of the "genetically inferior" bucks are just young. There are many things that affect antler growth; genetics is one of them, health & qulaity of feed are two others. I saw a buck on a friend's place that was torn up pretty bad by something (dogs or coyotes) one spring. That fall, his rack looked pretty poor in the game camera pix. My friend woulda shot him if he'd showed up during the season; to"remove the poor genes from the herd".
The following season he showed up on a food plot, which turned out to be his last meal. Same notches in his ears, but a much improved rack.

In many areas the quality of racks can be improved by a two fold approach of harvest limitations as improving the quality of the feed. Mineral licks or fertilizer on your green fields can help. If the deer aren't allowed to grow out a bit beyond 1.5 -2 yrs old, it's hard to judge their real potential, and that of the deer herd.

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

I think 95% of these "genetically inferior" bucks are just young. Yea there may be a few of them mature 20" 4 pts, but not enough to impact the population in a real bad way.

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

Your taking whitetail "managment advice" from a resident of PA. who is shopping at Wal-Mart?

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

In Mississippi the average size of 2 1/2-3 1/2 old antlers has decreased since they went to antler restrictions. Basically your 6-8 pt 1 1/2 deer are getting shot and not growing to there full potential while spikes are being allowed to get older . This is why many believe antler spread would be a better gauge to a deers maturity than point restrictions.

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

The only change I've seen in deer over the years is their ever increasing ability to read and understand the Hunting Regs. No matter how complicated the regs get, the deer always figure them out before I do and are long gone by opening day.;)
dean

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

Antler restrictions is the worst way to "manage" deer. Really it isint even a form of management because it goes against everything that quailty deer management stands for. And I'm not talking about the group, I'm talking about the defintion of QDM.

As far as only killing mature deer and not killing younger deer, that in no way affects the gene pool and most certainly does not decrease your chances of harvesting trophy bucks. Its nonsense to think so. The places I hunt, with the exception of cull bucks, we only kill bucks that are 5 1/2 (perferably 6 1/2) or older and we have awesome hunting. The reason why south Texas produces so many 160"+ bucks each year is because they are allowed to reach maturity, and only mature bucks are killed. You can spend all the money and time in the world trying to manage a whitetail herd, but if your killing the bucks before they reach the mature stage then nothing else you do matters. Its all for nothing........

RE: antler restriction and genetics
 

i believe the same thing BOW27 and TEXHIGHRACK thinks. not allowing bucks to reach maturity hurts the herd quite a bit. in a few states i have seen decrease in quality bucks since the antler restriction was put in place. i have seen lots of smaller bucks and less bigger bucks. as for it used to be the other way around or atleast about the same ammount of both. i think that htere should be some type of maturity restriction to take them out other than a point restriction. because atleast then you could take out management deer, where as if the case was the point restriction, you may never get to tak that deer out.

Zach