Washington state elk tags
 

I'm curious if there's a consensus as to the best GMUs to put in for a trophy bull elk in Washington state. I've read good things about the Wenaha-Tucannon Wilderness in the Blue Mountains, but any other areas come to mind? I've hunted Western WA in the past few years where most units are 3 point or better, but this year I'm considering Eastern WA as I'm SICK of getting rained on :-( Most E/WA areas, as you know, are spike only, so I'm thinking to put in for an 'any bull' special hunt, but I want to find a good area to put in. I know most areas up northeast are any bull, but its sounds like its very thick there. What about Ellensburg, or near Hanford? Thanks for any input!

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

There is some big bulls in the Watershed unit. Most land around Handford is priviate and most charge a healthy trespassing fee and them hunts are either cow or any bull. Hopefully you have your points build up and they don't screw up the draw like they did last year.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Here in Washington it is always about the money, so if you want a chance at a trophy bull you must submit to the "Special permit"BS ($5.48 a pop) or stay over on the west side,with the excepton of Northestern Wa.

The tagwe have been trying for,for 12 YEARS (any Bull) in 2005 was actually 2 separate hunts with 36 opportunities to draw a permit. In '06 they combined the 2 units to 1 hunt with 9 permits available. I don't have last years numbers available (I beieve it was 9, or 7) but this year there will be over 2500 hunters forking out that money for a grand total of THREE "any bull" permits..........Pathetic!!!!
I have a letter in to the game commission requesting the logic and reasoning for this steady pattern of futility and am waiting for thier response.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

In my opinion sending a letter is not going to make any changes. I think that might work is if we all Hunters stick together and boycott hunting in this state for one year. That way when the funding for their wages drop and they may think about the question in hand.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

I wish we could!

Like we could get ANY group in this country could stick together like that. I wasn't thinkingthe letter would change anything- but I want to know WHAT they were basing thier decisions on. After what,13-15 years of spike only there are still not enough numbers that they have to lower the numbers of available permits? SOMEONE(s) are not doing thier job! Is it poaching? There is a heavy farmworking presenceon the northern boundaries of this area. Is it encroaching development? What is it?
My guess is they will try to blame it on human pressure such as snowmobile and ATV use so they can kill two birds with one stone and justify closing More of the roads up there.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

What also burns me is that it seems that they open Eastern modern firearm ealier very year. Like this year is Oct. 25th. and ends in first part of Nov. Look at the weather Patterns. Unless you own a pack string and get up to around 8500ft. level in the total wilderness area it is useless. I my be wrong. Last year I drew a cow tag for Bumping area. Hunted 2500ft. to 7500ft. level with no snow and didn't even see an elk. My partner seen a cow and calf the day before opening of cow season. Talked with Sportsmans Warehouse manager and they packed in with a big hunting crew and shot 13 spike and and two cows at 8500ft. in the snow line. This year thinking about hunting the Westside due to opening up Nov.1st. thru the 10th.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Hey, what about Mt. St. Helens and related Weyerhaeuser lands? I've never been down there for elk season, but it sounds like there are lots of bulls and lots of other hunters. I am also reconsidering Western Washington. It looks like those GMUs around the blast zone put out 300+ bulls a year. Is there a hunting party in every clear cut? I'd like to find a map of roads that will be closed so I could find a good area I can hike in. Is there one available yet? Or will I have to wait until fall?

I share your frustrations about the WDFW. I know they can't be blamed for some tough winters and massive dieoffs, but there are issues within their control as well. Also, from some of my experiences it seems there is a lot of Indian poachers. They poach a lot more than just whales w/.50 cals.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

I just finished reading their management plan because I was wondering the same thing.

The main problems are uncontrolled tribal harvest and poaching. It's extremely difficult to manage a population when you have no idea how many bulls are being taken, and recruitment into the "mature bull" age class is very low.

I've flown several times with WDFW bio's on retrivals ofradio collard mature bulls.Ifyou knew how manybig bulls are being killed byIndiansand poachers you would be sick.

Here is a link to their report. http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/elk/bluemtn_final.pdf

I'll admit it's not very well done but owning up to a management strategy like this one is not easy to do. It's out of date and is likely being updated this year if it hasn't already.

Their cow:calf ratios are on par with some of the worst areas in Idaho, yet IDFG still offers any bull, but they have capped the number of tags.

WA also has asevere problem withlow calf survival, a function of theirinability to adequately manage bear and cougar populations.

Their program has been plauged by many years of poor data collection and other types of mismanagement. They are basically in an "emergency, no-net-loss" type of management strategy that is unfortunately not socially acceptable.

However, it will be many years before they are able to move beyond this strategy, if they ever can.

I'm somewhat familar with the situations as I have been involved with elk management with both states (ID and WA).

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Good thoughts, B.A. I've hunted out in Forks on the Peninsula and I hear a lot about the poaching there. Really frustrating for people who play by the rules and don't have a 'race card' to play. I'm still not sure what side I'm going to put in for, or what tags.

Can you explain to me, like I'm six, why we have the spike bull restriction? What is its goal?

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Still no reply to my questions,But they made sure they got this out...................


WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/
May 29, 2008
Contact: Wildlife Program, (360) 902-2515
OLYMPIA - Hunters have until June 18 to apply for special fall hunting permits, but wildlife managers suggest they submit their applications as soon as possible to avoid potential delays and complications.
The permits, available to winners of a random drawing, afford special hunting opportunities for deer, elk, mountain goat, moose, bighorn sheep and turkey not otherwise available with a general hunting license.
"We strongly encourage hunters to apply for these special permits as early as they can," said Dave Ware, game manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). "It's best not to wait until the last minute, when the system can become busy and complications can occur."
Application instructions and details on special-permit hunts are described in the 2008 Big Game Hunting Seasons and Regulations pamphlet, available at WDFW offices, license vendors, and online at http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regs_seasons.html .
Hunters will be notified of the result of the random drawing for special-hunt permits by July 31, Ware said.
Before applying for a special-hunt permit, hunters must purchase an application and any necessary hunting licenses and transport tags on line, by phone, or from a licensed dealer for each species they wish to hunt. The cost for each application is $5.48 for residents, $54.75 for non-residents, and $3.29 for youth under 16 years of age.
Ware reminds hunters to update their mailing address in the system when purchasing their special hunting permit applications and licenses. Each year, hundreds of special hunting permits are returned due to invalid addresses, he said.
All applications must be submitted online at https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov or via a toll-free telephone number (1-877-945-3492). Paper applications will not be accepted.
Ware noted that this year's special fall hunting permits include:
[ul][*]Continuation of expanded permit levels for antlerless elk in the Mt. St. Helens area.[*]An increase in branch-antlered bull permits in the Blue Mountains.[*]An increase in moose special permits in the Mount Spokane, 49 Degrees North B, Huckleberry Range and Hangman hunt units. [/ul]
Ware noted, however, that permits for Game Management Unit 371 have been dropped from this year's hunt because the U.S. Army recently scheduled expanded training exercises at the Yakima Training Center this fall.
Mick Cope, WDFW upland bird and turkey manager, said applications for both early fall turkey permits and late fall turkey permits must be submitted by June 18.
The early fall turkey permit season is Sept. 27-Oct. 3 in units throughout much of eastern Washington. The late fall permit hunt is Nov. 20-Dec. 15 in northeast GMUs 101-124 only. Details are in the 2008 Big Game Hunting Seasons and Regulations pamphlet (page 64).


[hr]

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RE: Washington state elk tags
 

There is almost as many hunters as there are trees [:@]at least during rifle season.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Still no response, other than this.Since they were'nt responding I asked for the minutes of the Tri City commission meeting (where they adjusted the permit quotas)to try to make sense of it but this is what I got to that request.

Dear Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Department staff is currently preparing a response to your comments regarding elk permits in GMUs 328, 329, and 251. The April meeting minutes won't be ready for distribution until after the Commission reviews and approves them in June. Please see the attached electronic copy of the rule amendments that were adopted by the Commission during that meeting. I hope this helps. [/align][/align]If you'd like to hear the presentation along with Commissioners' questions and discussions on the amendments,let me know and I'll mailyou a copy of the audio recording from that portion of the meeting. Or, you can go to TVW's website and listen to the audio recording at: www.tvw.org[/align](the specifical link to public agencies: [/align]http://www.tvw.org/search/siteSearch.cfm?EventType=A&Date=2008&bhcp= 1. )[/align][/align]From here, you can search for the Fish and Wildlife Commission's April 11-12, 2008, meeting audio. [/align][/align]Please call the Wildlife Program at (360) 902-2515 if you have specific questions about the current regulations.[/align][/align]You will receive a more detailed response to your inquiry within the next couple weeks. I hope this information has been helpful for you in the meantime. [/align][/align]Sincerely,[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]Susan Yeager, Executive Assistant
Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
(360) 902-2449 Nancy
email: [email protected][/align][/align][/align]
>>> "JAMES com> 05/23/2008 6:59:09 PM >>>
[/align]

Washington Fish and wildlife Commission[/align]If nothing else, could a person get a copy of the minutes of the Tri-City Commission meeting where the adjustments were made??[/align] Jim[/align][blockquote]
----- Original Message ----- [/align]From: Fish & Wildlife Commission [/align]To: [/align]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:45 AM[/align]Subject: Re: Special Permit allotment for GMU,s 328 329[/align]
[/align]Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Thank you for sending the correct information. I've forwarded it to Department staff.[/align][/align]Nancy[/align][/align]Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
Mail: 600 Capitol Way North
Olympia, WA 98501-1091
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/com/comintro.htm
email: [email protected]


>>> "05/15/2008 4:46 AM >>>
[/align]

OOPS.That would be GMUs 328, 329,and 251[/align][blockquote]
----- Original Message ----- [/align]From: Fish & Wildlife Commission [/align][/align]Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:36 AM[/align]Subject: Re: Special Permit allotment for GMU,s 328 329[/align]
[/align]Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Thank you for your correspondence regarding elk hunting in GMUs 328, 329, and251. I have forwarded it to appropriate Department staff for a response. Commissioners will receive a copy of your email and response.[/align][/align]Nancy Burkhart[/align]Commission Administrative Assistant[/align][/align]Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
Mail: 600 Capitol Way North
Olympia, WA 98501-1091
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/com/comintro.htm
email: [email protected]


[/align]
Gentlemen[/align]My name is James Zielasko and I have been elk hunting these and GMU 251 for over 40 years with my late father and mother, my brother and his children and now well into our 4th generation of Elk hunters. Oh yeah....lets not forget our many friends who enjoy it too.[/align][/align]Threeof my friends and I have been entering the drawing for the ANY BULL tag since1996. Our concern is that for the last several years the number of these permits available has gone down yearly to the point that there are now ONLY THREE for modern rifle hunters. We would like to know WHAT the problem is in these areas, and what can be done to fix this problem? Since 2005 92% of these permits are gone. From 36 in '05 to 03 in '08.Do we loose our points if we skip this year, or are we forced to spend the $5-6 even though there is NO chance of drawing this tag since there are almost 3000 people putting in for these 3 (Pathetic) permits?[/align]For the last few years we just figured that things would get better eventually, but that seems to be FAR from the pattern here, so we decided we need to question the reasons......And here we are![/align][/align][/align][/align][/blockquote][/align][/align][/blockquote][/align][/align]

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Blacklab,
Thanks for answering my inquary. What about gated roads? Are there remote areas for us brazen, callow juvenile hunters who don't mind hiking a few miles in? From studying the maps it seems that even if there is one or two closed roads, there are plenty other roads that probably pressure the elk.
Where are you putting in for tags? I've come to the understanding that if I want to put in for Eastern special hunts, I have to choose that tag for the general side. I had the idea that if I don't get drawn for theEastern hunts I want, I'd rather have a general tag on the west side.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

summitdawg, you're wondering why there are only three rifle permits and it's not getting any better? My guess is the indians are killing too many elk out of that area in the winter. It's pretty tough for the state to manage our elk herds when the indians can go out and kill as many as they want, and many times just for the heads so they can be sold. So don't blame the state, blame the federal government for allowing the indians to do all the things that we can't.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Bingo

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

As far as I can see the reason for spike only is to get as many bulls (male calves) as possible to survive long enough to become big bulls.

They are only averaging 50% calf survival in many areas. So, 50% of the male calves are essentially dead before they even become spikes.

Then those male calves that are moderately successful become spikes and the highly succesful ones become raghorns or 2 points or whatever.

So by going spike only you are not allowing your most sucessful young bulls to be killed, then they can survive better,grow up and get more of your herd pregnant.

Spike bulls in general are not successful breeders so having your hunters take animals from that age class isn't going to hurt you as much.

When you start killing the prime breeders (raghorns and mature bulls) you're not getting as many cows pregnant as you probably could, even though the rut has mostly ended. So when you already don't have enough calves, you certainly don't want any more cows to not get bred.

Also, mature bulls will service the herd faster as soon as the cows come into heat,since they have harems. So that will in theory cause more calves to be born at the same time in the spring. The more calves that hit the ground at the same time, the better as predators can only get so many. If you left the breeding up to the teenagers, the calving season would probably be strung out longer and more calves would get eaten.

There really isn't anything they can do anymore until they get a handle on the predator problem and that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

The best thing they could do is shut down all elk hunting for about 10 years but no one would accept that and the Indians would still be slaughtering the big bulls.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Thank you B.A. I feel edgumakated :eek: Probably more straight talk about WA elk than I"d get in 50 emails with the WDFW. I still haven't chosen a side of the state to hunt..

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

I'll have to chime in here since I'm a fellow WA hunter.. and former Montana hunter (sometimes out of state when I can afford it :-)). We have hunted Taneum 336 for the last 10 years mostly rife season but have moved to archery to avoid the orange army. We have taken 4 cows and 2 spike bulls in that time.. and could have taken numerous branch antlered bulls including some trophy class bulls. I believe that Spike Only rules do indeed work.. with the goal to get more mature animals as is evidence of the number of mature bulls we have been up close and personal with. That said it sure is frustrating to put in for branch bull tag year afer year and never get chosen.. yet see them every year.. I'll refrain from the Indian discussion because it won't do anything but piss me off.

This year we're going to hunt the St Helen's area for change of pace and because you can get some exclusive tags in Toutle and Margarette.. and because we bowhunt and are likely to have better weather than November... and a good chance at hitting the rut!

Good luck in your decision

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

There are some great units to put in for, but some can take you quite awhile to draw for. I would suggest Peaches Ridge C in unit 346. We get drawn there about every couple years, sometimes only having one point and there is very good Bull hunting there. We took 3 nice bulls there in 2006.

Regards,

Elkoholic-BB

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

J for usa
Sorry it took solong to respond to your post. There all pretty good units around St Helens heres a couple 522,524, and 556 mind you these are all permit only.GL! Here's a general season unit 572 quite a few elk in there 3pt min. Come opening weekend it's a different world :eek:

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Well I finally made up my mind. I decided on East over West. I put in for 2005, 2003, 2017, and 2007. 3 out of 4 are in the Blues. I put Observatory in there as third because the Wenaha East is mostly wilderness and that will take some extra effort to make work. I guess the things that won out were the rain factor, as well as the branch bull restriction--Overall I think I'm a little less likely to get an elk on the East vs. the West, but better chances at a big trophy. If I don't get drawn (I have low points so I'm not expecting to), I'll probably hunt the thick Northeast where there are any bull/any elk units.

Thanks to all those who chimed in. Good luck with your draws [:-] God bless.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

I did what We (ALL as individual submissions this year as opposed to group)have been doing for 12 years now and we'll all see what 144chances does for a measly3 permits. Colokckum A....only one choice
I did get calls from 2 different gentlemen from 2 different offices (Wenatchee,and Yakima) telling me of very low Bull to cow ratios due to
hunter success and winter kill. Didn't really seem to blame poaching or tribal hunting. Actually didn't seem to want to discuss either issue much.
We discussed possible fixes which I'll get into at another time.Permit only units are not being considered-But "True Spike" has been discussed as an option. More road closures are not being considered (thank god) Nor was expansion of the existing reserve. I did hear of satellite reserves??
I told them if they want more escapement they need to leave a few more trees and stop the rampant logging in many places up there.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Sounds like a smoke screen to me. But I'm not an expert, nor do I have access to any of their updated data.

I will just say this:

While this past winter was quite harsh compared to the 10 year average, we haven't had a severe winter that would have impacted populations over a widespread area since 1996. They wouldn't know much about winter kill at this time anyway, not until they do their flight surveys in late 2008-early 2009.

When they say "hunter success", that doesn't mean a whole lot considering most units are permit only for branched antler. So, why would hunter success be a problem if they are deciding how many tags to issue? If they are allocating bull tags to an area, and banking on the fact that only 40% of them will be filled, well that's just stupidity on their part.

It's been proven time and again in many studies that hunter success and thus elk mortality increases as road density increases.

What they should have said is: "We have several areas with very high road density, and this increased access is leading to higher than average harvest and increased opportunities for poachers." They won't talk about poaching or Indian harvest because they have probably been told not to, as these are both obvious problemsand hot button issues they can do little about.

They have little control over timber harvest on National Forestlands. However, doing some things to limit hunter access, such as temproad closures wouldgo a long way toward increasing bull survival through the hunting season.

WA elk are subject to an incredible amount of hunting pressure. WA is also popular for poachers and Indian harvest because they can see long distances and most roads are fully open year round to some kind of mechanized travel, compared to neighboring states.

This is perfect for spotlighting and/or shooting from you're vehicle/the road.

It's not an accidentthat ID and MThave a large amount ofmandatory/year round road closures andhave had goodsuccess managing theirelk populations.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

By "hunter success' they are saying that not enough spikes are making it through the year to increase the bigger bull numbers.
Since we started hunting the colockum...70% of the roads have already been closed permanantly. Except for the fact that many times we have enocountered those who " can't read the language the signs are printed in" driving these closed roads.
How about letting the weather close roads to people by making the season LATER in the year- worked great up until the '80's!
As for logging , this is all mostly state land (DNR or WDFW) land being logged up there.
Thank God we don't have the Canadian Grey to deal with in this area!!

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

we put in for the taneum last year and i shot a cow. had about 45 to chose from. i don't hunt for elk unless i get drawn. who cares about a big bull... taste like tire rubber anyway!!!

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

I've met an increasing number of hunters like that. Put in for E WA and see what happens. If they don't get drawn, they stay home. I couldn't believe that at first but for season after season of getting skunked while the Indians go on poaching I'm beginning to see why. Good luck with the draw--I'll post here when I find out.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

As I have said on other forums, WDFW is all about generatingcold hard cashfor the state coffers. They rely too heavily on draw tags to generate cash for Olympia. The WDFW is not about wildlife management it it's sole purpose is to make money and by keeping certain areas as spike only or 3 pt min. they create an oppertunity to generate extra money for Chrissy and her cronies by offering draw tags.This is why the fisheries is such a mess and why the state went to hunters having to purchase thier Turkey tags separate from the small game licence this year. Its all about the Green and not about the game.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

State spending in the biennium budget has increased 31% under her holiness. 31%!!! Who here wouldn't mind 31% more money for hunting toys :D

I had the privilege of meeting Dino last week and having a chat with him. He talks about spending that matters--roads, jails, etc. He has earned my support.

RE: Washington state elk tags
 

Oh yeah, I didn't get drawn either [:o]

Looks like you need to wait 6+ years to get a good bull tag in E/WA.