ZEN

My comments are about guides and outfitters in general, corporate or not, not your paticular operation alright cherokee. As an individual hunter I am not trying to degrade your way of life. As a guide and outfitting Business, your goal is to make as much $$$ as possible, correct? So if the state (any state) came toan outfitterand said, "we want to lease a section of public land and you will have exclusive rights for big game animals in that area." most would take it probably without hesitation because as a business owner that would be a tremendous boost to business, correct? Well that is already starting happen in states like Wyoming. It will not be long before other western states follow suite. The only people to blame are the state officials that approve this kind of action and guess who? The outfitters out to make a profit. You may call it standing up for hunters rights, but in my opinion....this is exactly the way that my rights as an individual hunter are going to be taken away. Once business have control over who hunts and who doesnt, then the business insurance companies get to decide who hunts, what kind of weapons are used etc. etc... because then they are on the hook for liability and insurance claims, and if you think this isnt on the way, well then you heard it here first!!

frontier gander

We have 3 horses and you know how many times we've used them for hunting all the years weve owned them? ZERO! use your legs lol, they are a lot cheaper and easier.

As for the outfitter deal, the guy loves to hunt and he enjoys guiding, how can you hold it against someone thats making a living by doing what he enjoys? You Also realise that most guides make their money in tips, its not like they get paid an hourly wage. The harder you work and if the person you are guiding see's your hard work and effort you're putting in to it, the happier he'll be and hopefully be nice enough to tip you well for your effort that you made. I think this topic has gotten way blown off course, It needs to go back to thinking your opinion on why you would or why you wouldnt use a guide and give your personal opinion and leave it at that. But as for arguing with cherokee, its doing no good.

cherokee_outfitters

Zen,

Your right in alot of ways about what you say. I personally haven't experienced the state leasing property to outfitter controlled hunts and actually would concider it to be unjust to all other hunters. We do make money but not alot and don't overbook clients and don't overhunt our area's. From my stand point I'm sure you see me defending those that do it fair and have a good quality operation where good clients hunt like working class guys not the rich and spoiled hunters. So I'll leave the personal stuff out of the thread.

On with the post.

I have booked a hunt in Canada to hunt bear in the spring. This will be my first ever hunt with any kind of lodge or arranged hunt. Its not guided other than someone showing us where the bait stations are. I haven't hunted a baited bear in almost 15yrs. Like any hunter I have no idea what to expect when I get there. All I know is we use their cabins, baitstations, and cook for ourselves. I really don't care if I take a bear it won't bother me just the fact of going to Canada will be enough.

Would I use an outfitter for a guided hunt? No I like yourself don't feel the need to use a guide. I don't think you should have to use a guide to hunt kodiak in alaska. Or like you say outfitters gaining control over state area's is strickly crap. No private individual should control public land. Leased or not it should not be allowed. I'd sign my name to a petition against something like that in a heart beat. New Mexico tried that with elk hunting under outfitter control and that didn't fly at all. As hunters there's enough of us to make a difference if we stand together for what is fair.

charlie brown

I have read all the posts since my last post.

Zen, I think you need to cool down some. I am actually defending Cherokee in what he is doing. Outfitters have their place in hunting. Now, leasing up federally owned land to private individuals? BS. It may be like in Nevada where you have to stay within guidelines of what areas you can guide in, but not entire sections of the state given solely to you for guiding.

Look at it this way. The draw odds in Nevada for Desert Bighorn average about 50 to 1. That means that a person MIGHT draw a tag in 50 years. So MAYBE 1 sheep tag in their lifetime. If I draw a sheep tag in Nevada that means I will only be able to hunt sheep that one time. I will have to travel a lot of miles to get to my area to scout. I will have to get an idea of what to look for in a sheep. learn the areas, habits of the animals, etc. A person who guides for sheep may see 5 sheep hunters per year. If he is good, and has been at it for a while, or you have 2 guides, as is often the case, then that could mean a person has been on at least 50 sheep hunts in the last 10 years. Think that guy knows what the hell he is doing? I bet so. Think that $4000 is worth EVERY penny? BETTER BELIEVE IT!!! Would it be more wise for me to use the expertise of that guide to help me with my ONCE IN A LIFETIME sheep hunt? OH YEAH!! The knowledge that person possess's is worth his weight in gold. PERIOD. And it is a lot more than I can develop in the 5 months from the time I find out I have the tag to the time I get to hunt. Would I necessarily USE a guide in this instance? Probably not. Just don't make that kind of money to payfor at one shot. If I had the money would I do it? In a heart beat! And I can guarentee that the odds of getting a sheep are alot better with a guide then me going out on my own.

It just makes sense for a person who is going to go on a once in a lifetime hunt to use a guide or outfitter. People just don't have the time to dedicate years of their life to one animal. If a guy lives in PA and wants to hunt elk, just once, then the guide is the way to go. chances are he can't get more than 4 weeks off of work every year, and the wife would get mighty pissed if he took those weeks to go to Colorado and scout,hunt, and drive back every year. He mayget one chance to fly down, hunt for a week, and then fly back.Funds, kids going to college, kids on the way, a mortgage, and many otherfactors will limit most people to that one time in their lifetime when they can actually go and hunt elk.

Now if a person lives in GlenwoodSprings and pays and outfitter for a fully guided hunt every year, they either (A) have a lot of money (B) are truely lazy or (C) have some other mitigating circumstance that prevent them from being physically capable of hunting elk on their own.

Enough ofmy schpeel,

Later,

Marcial

Colorado Bob

Well said Charlie. I hope to draw a WY moose tag this year----I've been trying for 8 years -----dang right I'm going to use an outfitter. It will take 3 men & a boy just to roll that bull over. Plus it will take 3 horses to pack it out. CB

Southwest hunter

I guess for some people guides and outfitters are not worth the money. But for some it is the most senseable option. If youlook at the amount of money and time that can be spent trying to learn some units or states and learning the game that resides there then maybe all the money is worth it. Guides ( for the most part ) don't guide strickly for the money, but rather they enjoy hunting as we all do. For some people from say Wisc. to come to Az to hunt desert sheep on their own would be ok, but for some others they realize that they don't know all they need to know about the habits of their game! Take into consideration how many people have disrupted your hunt because they were stumbling thru were and when they should not have been. Usually, not always, but usually that would not happen with a guide. It all boiles down to where someone wants to spend their money and time.

usa

Boy did this post go downhill fast, I'm not sure where I stand except I'm sure that if its legal leave"m alone.Don't know how to express this without seeming to brag but I'll try. I started hunting elk in 94 since then I've taken 7 bull's and about a dozen deer all on public land unguided and everyone except last years bull I humped out alone ( last year I carried 2 quarters out and some good hearted local folks went back in and got the last 2 quarters for me ) I'm 65 yrs old and not sure how much longer I can do it. I have the greatest respect for outfitters and guides, anybody who can babysit yahoo's like me for a living for little money has earned my respect ! sometimes its easy to sit on our santimonious pedestals and throw stones but all that does is further divide us as hunters.I've met quite a few guides and outfitters over the years and was amazed at the amount of time and effort it takes to accomodate a client/scout and prepare for a hopefully successfull short season.Although I've never used a guide my hat is off to you all.

Southwest hunter

USA you got it right. This chosen profession is not for everyone and is not either the way for all hunters to go. My hats off to everyone that goes at it alone and gets the job done, or even those that just have fun, that is what hunting is. Anyone that ridiculles a person for having a guide I guess does not totally understand the position of the hunter or the job of a guide!
Travis

NJheadhunter71

Not defending or looking to put anyone down but I think allot ofcommentsthatwere posted andaimed at outfitters byother hunters are strictly becausepeople can tend to be a little jelous. I myself have felt this way too sometimes. You walk into a doctors or a lawyers house or anyone who has bigtime cashola and see bulls hanging on the wallsin the high 300's or whitetails high in the degits and the first thing you say to yourself is, was his experience the same as mine because everything was setup for him? he really didn't earn that animal the cash did. It is a fact of life that some outfitters actually save the bigger ones for there higher paying and tipping clients. Its also a fact of life that whenever money is introduced to anything that it sometimes cheapens it. Outfitters have there place and always will, some are just guys making a living like you and me. The hunt is different for everyone.

gandilamont

I will be using a guide for the first time in my life this fall to hunt elk. We will ride horseback deep into the Bob Marshal Wilderness in Montana and hunt on foot from there. Thats my kind of guided hunt. On public land. I dont have a horse so this is something I could never do on my own.