GordonGekko

Good info, the density is the same as the company informed me when I put there back to the wall over a year ago (maybe because they had already been through that because of you). I was curious if you'd tested it independently and found they fudged on those numbers. On a side note, as you probably already know, the antimony lowers the density of lead, but this is also what makes it harder. So high antimony lead is hard but less dense.

The Hevi-goose hulls are crap, but I bought them for significantly less than Wingmaster HD, so I just shoot them quickly....

Most of the manufacturer's claims are pure puffery. And could be outright lies, but they put out a pretty good product for a competative price.

It is interesting that you note the "round shot" idea. I'm no aerodynamics expert, but I know a little about the flight of a ball. Even though a golf ball is round, it will not fly straight if it is smooth (this is the same reason a baseball/softball has seams and so on). So while Environmetal may be using some smoke and mirrors here their logic that a smooth round pellet will not fly straight has some basis in fact from my understanding. The irregular surface is allows the spin of the golf ball to "bite" and ensure that it flies straight (or otherwise). Assuming a shotgun imparts spin on pellets in their trip down the barrel, or once they exit the muzzle, that might account for the consistent patterns. Personally, I think they can't make it round so they picked a reason to turn a percieved weakness into a percieved strength. What I do know, but that I have not personally tested is that deformed lead pellets tend to loose velocity at a faster rate than round lead pellets, creating a longer shot string. But, in my opinion shot string is one of the most overblown aspects of shotshell ballistics.

I agree that the goose loads appear to be the way to go (and the hevi-13 turkey loads worked well for me this year).

I understand you have a problem with the way they do business. And I appreciate your ire. On a side note most of the major players in waterfowl clothing, accessories, and Camo have engaged in some rather unsavory practices too. I choose to ignore it. As an attorney I quit trying to save the world a while ago.

Interesting that you bring up, how much steel lacks in the lethality department. It wasa trip outside the U.S. where I was able to shoot ducks with lead that prompted me to switch to Hevi-Shot. I shot lead as a youngster, but switched to steel and complained...then as the steel got better I was happy for it.Along with a lot of offseason practice and fast steel shot, I got complacent. Through that time I lost track of how lethal a malleable dense shot could be on waterfowl. Then low and behold I take a trip get to shoot lead and found that my percentage of doubles went up big time, and triples became a real possibility along with birds that were dead when they hit the water.... When I got back I started playing around with a couple of loads trying to find something that really was better, and dollar for dollar the hevi-shot goose worked best for me. By switching to the hevi stuff I cut the amount of shells per bird by approximately 30%.

But, I digress...the bottom line is this. To get the good stuff make sure it is the "goose" loads. The Wingmaster HD and Winchetster Supreme HD look promising too. They are all significantly better than steel.

cjwink

If I am hunting timber I use 20 guage 3" #4 or #2 steel.. Works great.. If I am open water I move to the 12.. A 20 guage will kill a duck out just as far as a 12 guage. But you have a better chance of filling it with a 12 because there are more pellets in a 12 than there are a 20.