Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Anyone used these? They look like they'd be pretty wicked, if they work as advertised. I'm seriously considering booking a guided duck and/or Canada goose hunt this fall (my first time hunting waterfowl), and from what I've heard, they do a LOT of shooting on a good day and I can't see spending $30/box of 10 for the high end Hevi-shot or tungsten loads. The Fed BC isn't much more than their premium steel and comes 25 shells/box at about $20/box.

Also, what choke seems to work best with them. I'd be using the Stoeger 2000 that I'm pretty sure my wife is getting me for my b-day next month, and I'd have Cyl, IC, Mod, Full and X-Full chokes to pick from. I don't know how steel shot works through chokes since I've never shot it before.

All info is appreciated,

Thanks,

Mike

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

i got the stoeger m 2000 also love the gun youll be happy anyways i havent shot BCs out of it but i have out of my winchester ranger 120 i found using a little less restricted choke works best so try the skeet cylinder or the improved (This is how Stoeger lables their chokes)

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Last year was my first year to hunt with Black Cloud. It was amazing! There is not another steel shot out there that I know of that is better than Black Cloud. I only used it a couple of times for ducks, so I can't really comment on that, but I used it the whole year for geese. I shot my limit so many times this year with less shots than I ever have. It is extremely effective. I know I saved more dough by shooting less to get my limits.

Edit-I shot with a modified all year last year. Black Cloud and a modified choke=killer combination!!

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I've got a Stoeger 2000 and I love it. You'llalso love shooting those Black Clouds I used them last year and was really impressed. I would'nt useanything more than a modified choke with the steel anything tighter than that might damage you barrell.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

would go with the modified choke and the black cloud is a mean shell we compared it with some cheaper shells and there was no comparison at all and they also have a ton more punch.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

It doesn't matter... they all seem to shoot with about IC density.


I wrote up a field journal on them when they first came out.... here is a link to it... hunt report, dissection... patterns... the works.


http://www.hunting.net/fieldjournal/...l.aspx?nID=746

Personally I don't think its worth the money... its nothing but expensive steel shot that you cannot control the pattern density with.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

as for the black cloud, i don't have any personal experience with it...for my money all the fast steel loads do a good job, and kent fasteel is a proven performer as is the old federal premium high velocity loads (I'm partial to the 1.5 oz loads).... but from what I've seen there were several folks that shot better with the black clouds than they had in the past(but I have my theory on that, particularly now that swampcollie points out that they all seem to pattern to an IC no matter the actual choke...you see I think 90% of the duck hunters are shooting too much choke and miss shots because of it...but that is a subject for another post)....

back to the black clouds, they seem to be similar to the faster steel loads, which perform well.... but, mymy adviceto the original poster is two-fold....

first, you should talk to your outfitter/guide service before you go to see if need to supply the shells or if they are going to supply the shells, and second to the best of my knowledge you can only bring in a maximum of 200 shells to Canada for hunting there.... what I'm getting at is this, you may not have a choice of what kind of ammo you get, just be forewarned....

now, I don't consider a Canada hunt to be high volume (the duck limit is 8 per day, and the most liberal canada goose limit was 5 per day if memory serves) so that means you are looking at 13 waterfowl per day 200 shells ought to be more than enough depending on the length of the trip... my point is this, in the grand sceme of things the cost of your ammunition will probably be a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the trip, buy good ammo (and other equipment for that matter)because the last thing you want to dois cut corners and ruin a great trip.... on that note you will also want to give your ammo a test run through your gun to make sure it feeds well, some guns are a bit finicky about loads...also shoot that gun as much as possible to get you, the shooter, in good shape for the trip....

I've rambled and I apologize,I hope I've brought up a couple of points that will be helpful...as to choke, start with IC, if you don't shoot often you will be better served with a larger pattern on decoying birds for a bit of forgiveness, and furthermore, depending on the load steel patterns tighter than lead, so an IC choke will pattern like a Light Modified, or Modified choke and you will have plenty of choke for anything out to 35-40 yards....

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I don't buy into the Black Cloud idea.. A completely round pellet will fly alot more uniform than a not so round pellet. In fact that was a big complaint about going to steel shot.. It is a lot harder to form into rounds than lead.. The ammo companies have been trying to improve the "roundness" of steel to help ballistically. So me, the Black Cloud goes the opposite direction..

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

cjwink...I thought that too until I actually started doing some experiments with hevi-shot (which is far from round in many cases)...it patterned very well in spite of being much less uniform than steel shot.... I'm not sure why this is I just know it works....

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Might be because hevi shot is "heavy" and less effected by the airflow.. While steel shot on the other hand is lighter and more effected. But only a guess.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I'm not just guessing. I've killed thousands of waterfowl. I've used about every store bought round that's out there for waterfowl. Kent is very good for the cost, and I would have no problem recommending it.Kent Fasteel is what I've been using for the last couple of years, that is, until last year.Black Cloud is as advertised. It is without a doubt the best round I've ever used for geese.If you haven't tried it, you should. If your an avid waterfowler like myself.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Did you throw any at a pattern board at all?

I tried like hell to get it to do something different (good or bad) with different choke tubes... but the results were so similar it just didn't matter whether it was skeet or IM.... same results every time!

I found the #4 steel Black Clouds to be great on teal inside 30 yards... but even after the field journal write up when I got ahold of BBs.... the results were the same... IC type patterns... and just flat too sparse past about 35 yards.

My guns still shoot Hevi-steel and Win Supreme (black box) better than anything else.

I guess the end solution is that there is an ass for every seat... and you just gotta find which seat your's likes.... or in this case what your gun shoots well.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

When I made the switch to BC, I also changed my choke. I had been shooting KFS with an IC choke for a couple of years. Iswitched to a modified choke and BC at the same time. I left the modified choke in for duck hunting with KFS. I could see no difference from prior years. I could however see a great difference in goose hunting. I hunted with the modified choke and BC #2's. I shoot only decoyed geese, but I could still tell a great difference. I bet I only used half the amount of shells this year than in previous years.I am a terrible shot with a shotgun, because I'm left eye dominant and shoot right handed. I need all the help I can get. All I know is I found a winner that saved me some dough even though they are more expensive by the box. I flat didn't need as many rounds to fill my limit.

Edit- No I didn't pattern them on a board at all. I picked some up one night before hunting. The next mornings results made patterning them not necassary to me. I do plan on doing it this year in the off season. Once season gets here, time for that kind of stuff is sparse. I do agree with you on the ass for every seat, what works for some may not work for others.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

well...shoot whatever makes you happy, but nothing compares to the heavier than lead shot (costs aside)...field testing or otherwise.... i don't shoot it at light geese during the conservation season then I stick to Fast Steel (or whatever is cheap)because I may shoot3 flats (750 shells) per weekend.... but otherwise I am shooting the hevi-stuff...it's like a roach motel, ducks come in and never get out....

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Gordon, let's just go back to the part where you said you have no personal experience with it.:eek: So how canyou say itdoesn't compare? Why would you argue againsta product you haven't tried?Sure the real expensive stuff is great. I would love to shoot Bismuth all year, but I can't afford it. To me, it's the best performance for the price, but that's the way I felt about KFS a couple of seasons ago. I wouldn't even think about shooting it at snows. When I hunt snows, I shoot leftovers and whatever is the cheapest I can find. All I can say is, it works for me. And until I find something better for the money, I'm gonna use it.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Yeah I was hoping you might have stumbled across something that was different. I can't imagine being left eye/right handed! Sounds like it would be impossible for me! Maybe those things aren't shooting straight... if you are such an awful shot, perhaps a gun that shoots someplace other than where you are aiming is the best solution ;) I might should try that myself!

I'm glad they are working for you bro... keep on pounding those honkers!

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

while I personally haven't shot it much (just a handful of shells, not enough to constitute real experience IMO) I shared a blind with more folks than I care tocount shooting it...and there were noticably more cripples on birds they shot than those I shot with Hevi-Shot.... cleaning those birds showed fewer pellets with less penetration than hevi-shot.... Like I said shoot whatever makes you happy, and I am glad it works for you, it may be the next best thing to Hevi-Shot, Bismutch, etc...but the "next best thing" does not make it an equal...that is all I am trying to say....

this is all really just a sidebar to the original question...if you likeblack cloud then shoot it, it will perform just fine, but the most important thing is to sharpen up your shooting skills, that will reduce your ammo expense regardless of what you shoot....

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I shoot the Black Cloud out of my Mossberg 835 for geese in BBB 3 1/2 in mags. I use the modified choke and this combination works very well from birds in the dekes, to high flyers. I also shoot it out of my 870 for ducks in 3 in # 2's and # 4's. I use a skeet choke for pass shooting and hunting over a decoy spread. I have had incredible results with this combo. I have found the more open the choke, the better the patterns.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Comparing ANY steel shot and a high density performance wise.... is like comparing Catherine Zeta-Jones to Rosie O'Donnell. Ain't nobody going to argue or debate the effectiveness of hevi-shot (real hevi-shot that is) to steel.

You can compare Black Cloud to steel... which is really the heart of the matter I think.... but if everyone could afford to shoot hevi-shot all day long I suspect we'd all be shooting it. I use it often as my first shell for geese, backed up by two Win Supreme 3" BBs.... and its a great combonation of power and economics.... its the first one that I try and make count anyway.

I absolutely agree that any type of pellet, put on target by a dead-eye shot is worth three shells of hevi-shot fired quickly in vain to hit nothing but air.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

To consistently kill geese one doesn't need BC or even hevi shot. I have used both and if your goal is killing geese at 60yds then hevishot is the only choice. If you are shooting geese, feet down at 20to 30 ydsin the decoys then any steel shot on the market will kill geese consistently and cleaningly. I use alot of #2 3in. Remington Nitro Steel and kill geese out to 30 yds no problem. Usually pusing it through an IC choke, it patterns nicely with that setup.

IMHO You would be far better off to put more money into shooting at the trap range with you new Stoeger then buying high priced BC shot. Especially in Canada where the birds decoy well and the shooting is fast and furious if you get into the white geese at all.

Nemont

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I think there has been a little misunderstanding...I'm looking at hunting Canada Geese (the species) and ducks in Iowa, not hunt geese in Canada (don't I wish). I actually live about 20 minutes from the outfitter. I'm looking at a guided hunt because I have ZERO experience hunting waterfowl, and wouldn't even know where to start on my own. I ask about these shells because they seem pretty novel and I also have zero experience with non-toxic shotshells (I've shot exactly zero in my lifetime). As far as the need to practice, I'll probably take it to the trap club a couple times, but I have no doubt as to my ability to wingshoot. My average at the 16 yard trap is 24 of 25, and that's with a Browning BPS with a full choke and #8 1oz target loads. I don't think I'll have too much trouble nailing a decoyed goose at 30 yards. I just want to avoid wasting my money on crappy ammo, and to find out if the Fed BC shells are all they're hyped up to be (because having an edge never hurts, right?).

Thanks for the info. I think that I'll get at least one box and give it a try. If it doesn't pattern well in IC or Mod, I'll just go with the plain vanilla steel shot.

Mike

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

there not that strong like the nitro's me personally sometimes those feds dont kick out but nitros never jam up but i shoot a nova so it might depend on what ur shooting

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

driftrider...sorry....we took that WAAAY off course[:o]but when this get into your blood a little you'll be booking that trip to Canada in no time:D

if you can get on a skeet range where you can shoot a few incoming targets.... in my experience as an ex-guide most folks miss geese because they shoot behind and over them because the big suckers look like they are moving so slow, but in reality they are actually moving at a pretty good clip...just a little tip for shootin' the larger birds.....

pattern them and let us know how it comes out...you are a wise man not wanting to waste your money on crappy ammo....

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Hunting and Fishing Industry Strives on "New and Improved" Hype and always will..

To me if what you are using works and you are a shooter why is the need to fall for a Marketing Ploy?

We kill Tons of Birds and Using what we have used for Years.

Just my Two Cents

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

Not every new thing is a "marketing ploy". To deny that there have been positive improvements in hunting and shooting sports gear would be foolish. While it's possible that you are correct in this case, to simply dismiss such innovations outright would be akin a professional Longbowman in the English Army of the middle ages dismissing the hand cannon as a viable weapon simply because it was early firearm technology and as yet unrefined and unproven.

My point of asking about the Black Cloud shells was to get a first hand account of the shell's performance in real world situations to compare and/or contrast against Federals very flashy marketing. It would seem that many feel that the BC shells are as good or better than standard steel shot, while there are enough critical reviews to make one realize that they are not the Holy Grail of non-toxic shotshells. If you'd have read carefully you'd also notice that I have no experience with waterfowling or non-toxic shot shells, which is also a very big part of why I asked this question in the first place. But thanks for your input all the same.

Mike

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I shoot Black Cloud and I've seen a dramatic drop in the amount of cripples. It is no gimmic. Its the real deal.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

I tend to agreethe only industry with more gimmics is probaly golf, there is always something to improve your swing. With that said Black Cloud for me tend to be a vast improvement over the Winchester that I shot before lost less cripples and little better range. I for one like them.

RE: Federal Black Cloud Shells?
 

black clouds are great they work fine out of my sx3 and if you are really looking for a fully guided duck and goose hunt i am a new brunswick guide located on the atlantic flyway where you can shoot a limit or 5 geese and 6 ducks within 2 hours if the scouting is decent. we offer hunts for the best prices in the east and out outfit is called hendersons hunting camps you can look at our website anytime we also offer a combo hunt of whitetail and migratory or black bear and waterfowl for great prices.