Hevishot vs steel
03-03-2008, 08:11 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Happy Valley, Utah
Posts: 1,232
RE: Hevishot vs steel
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
ORIGINAL: huntingbuddy419
I watched a snow goose taken down at 80 yards with #2's remington's high speed steel.
I watched a snow goose taken down at 80 yards with #2's remington's high speed steel.
03-04-2008, 10:26 AM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 163
RE: Hevishot vs steel
I love hevi but it is expensive. 6 years ago i bought two case cheap from Waterfowler.com. I'm still firing the stuff from back then. I love #6's for ducks. I try to use it most of the time when i hunt geese. It really helps you and i fire #2's for geese.
With ducks I'll use it when it's a slow day or when i might get into a new species of duck for my wall. If I'm targeting a new species I always pull it out. When I hunt honey holes where shooting is close i usually load steel. I like to use HS on divers in the layout at times also.
With ducks I'll use it when it's a slow day or when i might get into a new species of duck for my wall. If I'm targeting a new species I always pull it out. When I hunt honey holes where shooting is close i usually load steel. I like to use HS on divers in the layout at times also.
03-04-2008, 07:54 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: Hevishot vs steel
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
Depends on how good a shot you are.
If you couldn't hit your ass with both hands then you might as well get you a pocket full of rocks and not ring my ears.
I've been shooting (or should I say shot) Hevi for better than a decade. Usually load it as the first shell and back it up with two steel. Before they monkey'd with the formula for that new Hevi-shot duck BS they have now, you'd never have to shoot a cripple. I shot swans, geese and ducks with regular 2 3/4" #6 hevi-shot. When Evironmetal took the loading back over and changed it from just hevi-shot to hevi-duck and hevi-goose... no more. I'm sitting on $400 worth of that hevi-duck junk.
I think that the new HEVI_SHOT DUCK (9.7gr/cc) is one of the biggest waste of money products on the market. Spend another dollar and get the Goose (12gr/cc) which is the REAL hevi-shot.
As for what I'm doing now... shooting up the rest of my hevi-duck... then sticking with Hevi-steel. Basically the same thing as hevi-duck (just a touch less dense) but MUCH less expensive). I shoot too many birds a year to shoot a high density shot exclusively.
Depends on how good a shot you are.
If you couldn't hit your ass with both hands then you might as well get you a pocket full of rocks and not ring my ears.
I've been shooting (or should I say shot) Hevi for better than a decade. Usually load it as the first shell and back it up with two steel. Before they monkey'd with the formula for that new Hevi-shot duck BS they have now, you'd never have to shoot a cripple. I shot swans, geese and ducks with regular 2 3/4" #6 hevi-shot. When Evironmetal took the loading back over and changed it from just hevi-shot to hevi-duck and hevi-goose... no more. I'm sitting on $400 worth of that hevi-duck junk.
I think that the new HEVI_SHOT DUCK (9.7gr/cc) is one of the biggest waste of money products on the market. Spend another dollar and get the Goose (12gr/cc) which is the REAL hevi-shot.
As for what I'm doing now... shooting up the rest of my hevi-duck... then sticking with Hevi-steel. Basically the same thing as hevi-duck (just a touch less dense) but MUCH less expensive). I shoot too many birds a year to shoot a high density shot exclusively.
03-04-2008, 09:12 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Hevishot vs steel
ORIGINAL: Alsatian
SwampCollie: That is some very, very, very interesting information. I confess to having been duped. And I don't think it is just Enviromental Metals that is perpetrating this hoax. I seem to recall having read an article in one of the glossy waterfowl magazines that extolled the virtues of HeviShot and some others. Man . . . that PO's me something fierce. I have bought 6 boxes of 3" #4s and 6 boxes of 2 3/4" #6s since the first of February, stocking up for next year. Talk about feeling like a sucker.
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
Depends on how good a shot you are.
If you couldn't hit your ass with both hands then you might as well get you a pocket full of rocks and not ring my ears.
I've been shooting (or should I say shot) Hevi for better than a decade. Usually load it as the first shell and back it up with two steel. Before they monkey'd with the formula for that new Hevi-shot duck BS they have now, you'd never have to shoot a cripple. I shot swans, geese and ducks with regular 2 3/4" #6 hevi-shot. When Evironmetal took the loading back over and changed it from just hevi-shot to hevi-duck and hevi-goose... no more. I'm sitting on $400 worth of that hevi-duck junk.
I think that the new HEVI_SHOT DUCK (9.7gr/cc) is one of the biggest waste of money products on the market. Spend another dollar and get the Goose (12gr/cc) which is the REAL hevi-shot.
As for what I'm doing now... shooting up the rest of my hevi-duck... then sticking with Hevi-steel. Basically the same thing as hevi-duck (just a touch less dense) but MUCH less expensive). I shoot too many birds a year to shoot a high density shot exclusively.
Depends on how good a shot you are.
If you couldn't hit your ass with both hands then you might as well get you a pocket full of rocks and not ring my ears.
I've been shooting (or should I say shot) Hevi for better than a decade. Usually load it as the first shell and back it up with two steel. Before they monkey'd with the formula for that new Hevi-shot duck BS they have now, you'd never have to shoot a cripple. I shot swans, geese and ducks with regular 2 3/4" #6 hevi-shot. When Evironmetal took the loading back over and changed it from just hevi-shot to hevi-duck and hevi-goose... no more. I'm sitting on $400 worth of that hevi-duck junk.
I think that the new HEVI_SHOT DUCK (9.7gr/cc) is one of the biggest waste of money products on the market. Spend another dollar and get the Goose (12gr/cc) which is the REAL hevi-shot.
As for what I'm doing now... shooting up the rest of my hevi-duck... then sticking with Hevi-steel. Basically the same thing as hevi-duck (just a touch less dense) but MUCH less expensive). I shoot too many birds a year to shoot a high density shot exclusively.
Yeah...... me too.
Environmetal guards this like its a matter of national security. I think honestly for them it is. I contemplated just going back to shooting steel, but thought that to be a bit rash. I'll keep shooting the hevi-steel, its a good buy for the price and performance, but I won't even buy hevi-goose.... I'd rather spend a few dollars more for Wingmaster than give them any more of my money. Thinking about it just makes me mad.
If you look at the boxes, its kinda no duh... but they never come right out and admit it. Now that you know there is a difference Alsatian, go back and read between the lines. The Hevi-duck says "More energy than steel" Hevi-goose says either "Over twice the energy of steel" or "Heavier than Lead". Depending on year of production. Reading over their product specs, you can see how they worded it to be misleading without being a total crock of crap. They didn't break any laws, but what they did in my school of business educated opinion is very unethical and a poor business practice.
03-04-2008, 09:39 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: Hevishot vs steel
An interesting point. If I go out and sell a product using another's trademark, they can prevent me. The idea is that I am gaining unfair benefit from the goodwill and reputation they have built with their customer; their customer associates a certain standard with the trademark, and the trademark owner wants to exclude others from benefiting frm their investment in that trademark.
I guess there is nothing illegal about the owner of the trademark itself degrading the standard expected by their customers and profiting -- as Environ-Metal seems to have done in this case -- on the expectations those customers associate with their trademark.
I have found other confirmations of your point around at other sites on the net. I have not entirely convinced myself that you are correct, but there is a strong flavor of right in what you have said. Why come up with a "Hevi-Shot Duck" label? Why use the motto "heavier than steel?" I will continue to investigate this. If I satisfy myself that this is true -- Hevi-Shot Duck is less dense than lead, particularly about 9.9 grams/cc -- I will take some pains to promulgate this information. I see that Cabela's trumpets the density of Hevi-Shot Duck as being akin to its former density. I may have to give them a call and ask them if they are going to change that representation. I think that would qualify as false advertising.
I guess there is nothing illegal about the owner of the trademark itself degrading the standard expected by their customers and profiting -- as Environ-Metal seems to have done in this case -- on the expectations those customers associate with their trademark.
I have found other confirmations of your point around at other sites on the net. I have not entirely convinced myself that you are correct, but there is a strong flavor of right in what you have said. Why come up with a "Hevi-Shot Duck" label? Why use the motto "heavier than steel?" I will continue to investigate this. If I satisfy myself that this is true -- Hevi-Shot Duck is less dense than lead, particularly about 9.9 grams/cc -- I will take some pains to promulgate this information. I see that Cabela's trumpets the density of Hevi-Shot Duck as being akin to its former density. I may have to give them a call and ask them if they are going to change that representation. I think that would qualify as false advertising.
