Would this anger you?
 

Ok, I pay 200 dollars for this special deal for snow goose hunting where they call you the day before if they have them on the property and feel its going to be a real good day. Ok, I never knew that snow on the ground can throw off the hunting but thats makes sense.

Well, 10 of us gets out there 7 hunters, and 3 guides and we barely manage 12 birds.

Thats ok, thats hunting.

Well, one blue one, they called them eagles, was flying in, so hired hand shot and so did I. I kept shooting, until he went down. He acted upset cause I tore him up, because he wanted to get it mounted. Keep in mind, he is out there to support us. That ticked me off.

So, on our way back in the back of the truck, the two young guides/hands(around 20), started picking thru the birds to find ones they want to mount. I couldn't believe it. We only got 12 for 7 paying hunters??? They started saying, they knew the ones they took down which was bull. We were all shooting and no shot was under 40 yards.

I paid my bill, didnt' tip, and grabbed2 geese and got in the truck and left.

One of the older guys who was paying to hunt was overhearing the two young hands and the older caller/guide saying they took this one, and that one and about 6. He said, "well, since you shot all the geese, I guess we only pay half price right?". They shut up pretty quick.

This is one of the more premieroutfits on the eastern shore of Md.

Am Iin the wrong? AllI kept hearing about before the hunt was they took 60 on average. Sure, I am disappointed to onlytake a few shots. But thats hunting. I did manage to witness several thousand swirling in the sky like a tornado once, which was an awesome experience.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Big, I wouldn't be too happy about it. I had a similar experience on a friend's property a few years back.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Snow geese is a thing I wish I could do on my own. That way I can only blame myself. But it seems its a numbers game where you require lots of flags or shells. They had around 1000 shells out. Thats just not feasable for me.

You know even if I we limited out today, I would have found it little redicuous for the hired hands to be picking out birds in front of clients.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Guides shouldnt be shooting if they have paying clients with them... Unless and I highly emphasize the word Unless they are asked by the clients too shoot. Only shooting they should be doing,, is finishing off cripples. And there is no way they should be taking any of the game, unless it is offered!

RE: Would this anger you?
 

i agree guides are guides unless they are out on a day "off"

RE: Would this anger you?
 

I have to agree with all you guys. If I was going just for meat, thats one thing, but I am out there for fun. I can buy cornish hens.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Funny thing you mention is they are taking the premier birds for mounters.. Have too wonder why? Im sure they kill several a year on theyre own,, im guessing they are selling them too make more profit.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

It was pretty nice of you to pay the bill in the first place. First off....$200 for Snow's is mighty high a price. Second, I don't care if I am paying $200 or $2,000, if I am paying to hunt...that means you aren't shooting the birds I am paying to shoot at.If a guide asks, I will almost always say sure thing, but that depends on the guide too. I have taken a fewclients on fishing trips before, and you bet your butt that even on very hot action fishing days for stripers, I, (the mate) didn't real one in unless everyone flat insisted that I do so. And I let the paying clients catch my two rockfish, and keep them. This is how it should be. I was there to rig, net, set and clear....not fish. Those guys were there to call birds, call shots, retrieve, and stay out of the way. Not to hunt and shoot all the birds....then take them home!

A friend had a similar experience up there in MD with snows. They shot a banded bird, and the young guide tried to claim it. It almost came to a fist fight, not over the band itself, just over the principal that someone who is paying to hunt, isn't really getting to do much except watch. May have even been the same group.

Big, please post the name of this bogus outfit, so all others may avoid them.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Well, they are the biggest outfitter in MD. Schraders Hunting. They control almost the whole snow geese hunting in Deleware and MD. I see them on the TV and on Duck videos and figured they would be a tad more professional.

Swamp there is a walleye outfitter in Lake Erie, I continue to go out with. My family has been going fishing with him since I was 12, (my first trip), and he specifies, the fishing trip is from sunup to 3PM. And he will fish on occasion, espeically if he seeswe are going to miss our limit number. I never had a problem with it. But one year, he took a friend and his son (around 30year old). Things got tight on the boat. We voiced it, because his son was an awesome fisherman, and caught 2 peoples limit, and never happened again. But he usually gives us all the fish, including his catch. Maybe only ask for one fillet for his dinner on occasion.

You definatly sound like a very good operator. I would go back.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

You have every reason to be P.O.'d,Big Country....
Yep.. You bet it woulds anger me too.
I woulda grab the 2 biggest best looking birds in the group
and walked away walk them...:D
Hope you did......

RE: Would this anger you?
 

First of all, I wouldn't pay to go on a guided waterfowl hunt, especially for Snow Geese. They are a nuisance and many landowners will let you kill all you want. You just have to do your homework. I luckily have a good private duck hunting spot, but if I didn't I would hunt public WMA's before I would go on any guided hunt. To answer your question, yes I would have been ticked off. For the same reasons you were. Nothing is guaranteed, but your guides made a big mistake in hunting with you and taking geese after the hunt. You better call the guide police:D. I would have said you can have all the geese, just give me half of my money back. Snows aren't that great eating anyway. It's the Specks that are the real prize.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

I agree with swampthing-the only time a guide should shoot if there are paying hunters is to keep the Cape Buffalo from stomping the client. Obviously, that was NOT the case here......

Waterfowl guides should have calls and dogs, not shotguns.......

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Not sure what this has to do with the post?

RE: Would this anger you?
 

That sucks, id get my money back or at least half. Specks are the best anyways

RE: Would this anger you?
 

I see people saying they would get thier money back. How? All sales are final. And think about it, would you really demand your money back? It would appear as if we are unhappy, because we didn't get more birds.

We were going to stiff them the 200 dollars we owed. But they demand a credit card for the first payment. Beleive me, you don't want to go down that road.

Its kinda my fault. On the shore of MD, I have heard horror stories on Ken Schraders deer hunting leases. Where 6 hunters show up thinking they got a lease, and they bow hunt it all year, and then gun season comes and 8 more hunters show up. Big showdown. Lots of yelling. But Schrader is a pretty powerful guy over there with alot of pull with the law. He controls over 20K acres on the shore.

So honestly, I should have known better and regconized where thier is smoke, there is fire. But figured theirs's two sides to a story. Some people love the guy and come back to his bridgeport manor every year.

Also, they asked us to sign release forms before the hunt that gives them the right to collect funds no matter the outcome of the hunt.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

whenyou are with a guidethey are supposed to beworking...

RE: Would this anger you?
 

I have this weird feeling that its one of those deals, that the boys can hunt free if they work getting decoys out or something. There was another couple there, a girl and her boyfriend, and she said that her boyfriend works for Ken being a deer hunting guide on occassion.

Thats were it gets to be a slippery slope.

Thanks guys for the replies. I am going to email the owner. If he writes back, you get what you get, then I will let it go. If he wants to make something right, I will herald it too. I also believe I should get back half the money or a big break on another hunt.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

No big, in hindsight, I think you did the right thing. If you would have stiffed them the cost of the agreed upon hunt, that would have put you in the wrong, legally and morally. From here, however, your recourse is shaky. Its a risk you have to take, thats why these forums are good. You probably saved someone from getting hosed by these guys down the road. And, you may well be saved yourself from a bum steer by someone else who got the shaft in a similar manner.

Yeah, but, they are the only crap game in town. Gotta take a chance. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. But yes...I have heard of crap like that before, and you have to look over the fine print sometimes. Occasionally, those fine print statements are just standard procedure to protect everyone, but sometimes, they are guarentees that a guide can do whatever he wants and get away with it free and clear.

That release is a big red flag. Admittingly, thats hunting and most people understand that. But forcing you to sign that release means that, legally, he could have set you out in a mud parking lot for 15 minutes, blow a call three times, packed it up and charged your Visa.

And as you were speaking about that dude who was putting out deeks and calling, in exchange for hunting free....thats probably exactly what it was. Of course, your average paying guest doesn't see it that way.

The way to do this, really, is to go one on one with a guide. Meaning, just you and your party, and one guide. No double parties, no people you don't know. That way, there are no social graces, and if you are getting hosed...you know whats up right out of the gate.

Good luck, big. Let us know what happens!

RE: Would this anger you?
 

If it would have been me I woulda took the birds that the guides wanted to mount and started cutting those birds for meat. :D I'd like to see the looks on their faces then.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

You know, i left that blue on the back of that truck, and am kicking myself right now for not breasting it out right in the parking lot.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

i agree with the operation sounding ridiculous .... if i were you id just start doin ya homework now for next years hunts ... i have never used a guide service as i like to set my own dekes, do the calling, and enjoy spendin time with friends .... i have only hunted out of state a few times for waterfowl ... but many times for other game .... doesnt take too much work to line up hunts for your intended game without havin to pay guide fees .... yausin one of the besttools to get in contact with true hardcore, friendly, waterfowl go getters ..... the net ..... thats how i have done most of my work to get into out of state hunts ... the people i hunt with in Arkansas do whatever they can (within the laws) to put me on birds ..... keep an eye out for birds and keep me informed on the bird numbers, species, and conditions .... and have no reason to blow smoke since there isnt any $$$$ involved ..... i hunted in Arkansas for 5 days free of charge this Jan. .... sure we didnt do great ... but was told that we wouldnt before we even packed up to head down there .... we took our chances as far as numbers .... killed a few birds ... had a great time .... and looked at it as a vacation more so than a big numbers game ..... what im sayin is .... try to hook up with a fellow hunter rather than guide if at all possible .... ya never know ... ya may make a friend/friends in the process .... and wont cost ya near as much in the long run .... this past trip cost us gas, food, lic, and sum dekes .... and spent time with sum great people .... and since ive hunted with these people i have never been told they shot this or that and started pickin out birds for their own use .... heck they tell us to keep what ever is killed if we want em .... and even get to hunt on our own most days (which isnt always that great cuzz we enjoy the time spent with the fella in charge of the land) .... no matter .... i hope this is the last time ya have to deal with such a crappy service !!! good luck to ya and hope ya get hooked up with one of the people on this site ....seems like there would be sumbody on here that would be willing to take ya on a hunt or two !!

RE: Would this anger you?
 

It was pretty nice of you to pay the bill in the first place. First off....$200 for Snow's is mighty high a price. Second, I don't care if I am paying $200 or $2,000, if I am paying to hunt...that means you aren't shooting the birds I am paying to shoot at.If a guide asks, I will almost always say sure thing, but that depends on the guide too. I have taken a fewclients on fishing trips before, and you bet your butt that even on very hot action fishing days for stripers, I, (the mate) didn't real one in unless everyone flat insisted that I do so. And I let the paying clients catch my two rockfish, and keep them. This is how it should be. I was there to rig, net, set and clear....not fish. Those guys were there to call birds, call shots, retrieve, and stay out of the way. Not to hunt and shoot all the birds....then take them home!

i heard that it should be the same way on a hunt i knwo what ya mean abut teh clients i only reel one in if they insist and then i hand the rod over most of teh time

RE: Would this anger you?
 

If I was In that situation I probably would have gave them a piece of my mind and showed them whos boss. People like that should never be hunters. It isn't alwaysabout the kill and they should have respected you as the guest and let you guys have some say in what was going on.


But, like a famouse country singer once said "Might as well share,Might as well smile, because life gos on for a little bitty While"

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Canis, usually I do do my own hunts. I have a duck boat, but this is the first year where we couldn't get permits for public land. Its a lottery system. We usually get stake blinds on the bay. But they let the people who live on the bay have first rights to the water in front of their house. Long story short, we have to drive almost 4 hours to public land, and we tried it twice and got struck out. This lotto system is rediculus.

Since I moved to MD, its like a double edged sword. Great hunting, lots of birds, if you live on the water, or have permission. So I figured this year, I would buy a few hunts.

RE: Would this anger you?
 

sorry to hear that ya have to deal with those laws/situation ..... hope ya can get in on sum great hunts next season ...... have been wantin to hunt the east coast for quite sum time now and thinkin bout headin over that way next season myself .... to go after brant, longtails, scoters, or maybe sum eiders ..... but wont know for sure til i do sum research and try to make sum contacts .... if i cant come up with sumthin im comfortable with ill head to another state .... maybe ya should keep that option open for next season also ..... good luck to ya !

RE: Would this anger you?
 

Being a guide myself, I find this a little hard to take. You always put your clients first, especially if they are paying. Those guides need to go out hunting by themselves if they want birds to mount.