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every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
ok im sick and tired of this sxs or o/u personally i love over and unders im practically a adict !!!! to them !
i wqanna here your strong opinions about what you like better becouse it seems like everyone is a big fan of SxS in here!!!!! " if it flies it dies!!!!" |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
To each their own. Ever read a copy of The Double Gun Journal. It may somewhat explain the mystery that perplexes you.
The double guns I own: sxs 12 ga Ithaca cicra 1912-1914 right when they bought out Lefever 30" F/F sxs 16 ga Spainish made imported through Kassnar arms circa 1970's sxs 20 ga Spainish made sxs 28 ga Spainish made only stamped with Eibar and has really funky engraving Turkey and Waterfowl: 12 ga 870 with a synthetic stock As you see I do not own an O/U so I am not qualified to really judge your passion for them. I have been caught with a O/U 410 Fausti in the training field due to Kennel Rules. It does handle nicely. But I prefer the sxs's. |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I think it's all a matter of taste. The first 12 guage I ever hunted with was a Model 12. I then shot an 870 exclusively (all bird hunting, trap, skeet). After that I got an O/U itch, went right through a Remington Peerless, was lucky I had also picked up a Browning Citori along the way, and also got my hands on a nicely engraved Model 101 to pretty up my gun cabinet. Somewhere in there I added an 1187, which I liked so much I had to have the real thing, an 1100. It's been true love ever since. But this thread is about o/u vs. sxs. I have one sxs, an AYA 12 gauge. Nice gun, but it took some getting used to. If your gonna make me choose between a sxs and o/u, put me down for a Citori.
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I like a O/U best, but hunt with that or Auto because of the s/s covers more with both barrels.
S/S 's are for the most part a lot more $$ and for some it's a ego thing , I am hunting with this gun that cost more than your car. Pick what you like , learn to shoot it good and if anyone looks down on your choice TELL THEM TO GO POUND SAND UP THEIR @SS . |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Roost em, Do you get a sore neck when you turn those barrels vertical to shoot? In all reality both guns are very good! It is the feel of the gun in your hands that will set your mind. I have both O/Us and SXS, but I feel right with my O/U in my hands. But there are two kinds of O/Us, high profile and low profile, the profile is set by the lock style. The old Brownings are of the high profile style, I can't shoot them. I shoot low profile guns and I have 3, SKB 505 20ga 26" tubes, SKB 585 20ga 28" tubes and a Ruger red label 28ga 28" tubes. The barrel length makes the gun feel different also. I would shoot all the guns you can get your hands on and find out which you like best.
Roost em, my SXS is an old Ithica 12ga, it belonged to my Great Grandfather. My uncle broke the stock, so I had to fix it, it is still ugly but it shoots well. It is very fun to shoot at the range, but it is really heavy, so I don't think I will hunt with it a lot. Gselkhunter |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
ORIGINAL: johnch S/S 's are for the most part a lot more $$ and for some it's a ego thing , I am hunting with this gun that cost more than your car. I've met sxs owners the reflect the image you speak of, and I've met some O/U owners that are the same. And just to clear the air. Hadn't paid more than $575 for any of the ones I shoot.Most were under $400. They are all just shooters and hold no real collectible value...yet. I buy em used and then do a little fixing from time to time before they go afield. Now one day I may be able to cough up the 8,000 Washington's needed for a custom fitted SXS 28 or 410 but safe to say that day is a long way away possibly never. And I'd have to fall into a lot of greenbacks before sinking 5 figures into a gun and it better be nice because I do not believe I'd be married much longer after that purchase. Gselk- Does your Ithaca have the faint engraving of a pointer on the side? And my neck is fine other than the salt you keep heaping on it from the other thread[&:] |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Roost em, I am really glad your neck is OK, you had me worried! As for my Ithica, it does have a pointer on the sides. I don't know much about them, is that important info? Will that tell how old or the grade of the model? And I will try and reduce your salt, don't want those arteries to harden too much.
Gselkhunter |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Learned to shoot on a Steven's sxs 16 guage when I was a kid-best gun I ever owned-unfortunately lost the forearm when I was duck hunting in a canoe. Then progressed through a series of o/u and sxs-believe it is a matter of how it feels as I like my sxs when I hunt ducks but prefer my o/u when I am after pheasants. Never paid more than $375 as money always has to go to other things but do understand your thoughts about the debate.
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I started with an old pump high standard and have shot pumps,autos and sxs ever since my fav. is my ithaca 16 because it is light and a fast shootin little gun but for turkeys i go with my 11-87 it's a matter of what you shoot best with the guys that turn their nose up at anything but an o/u or sxs have their opinions but these same guys if they picked up an old 870 or 1100 or the like and started hittin everything from feathered to clay would they not use that gun because it's not the type of gun they like I think not and if they do well they need more help than they will get here
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
My dad has a Fox(savage) model B in 12gauge. Its the first gun I ever really connected on clays with. It just feels better than anything else. The only auto i've ever liked was an old ladies 20gauge auto5. Because the small forearm on SxS don't allow you to "hold on" to anything it makes them feel quite unique. The whole eye getting confuse is nothing but an excuse for poor shots. The same goes for having to compensate for each barrel. Do you have to aim lower when firing the top barrel of an O/U...NO! In the field an opened SxS lays very nicely in the crook of your arm, and I hear that old fashioned english stocks are a dream to carry. Lastly SxS tend to shoot much flatter than others...something I am now use to and like very much. A few of the reasons I've heard for O/U being more dominant in the competition circuit are as follows:
FASHION/TREND Cheaper to make an O/U action than a SxS You get double the mirage off a hot SxS Only the last one has anything to do with performance...and dove hunting is the only real-world scenario I can think of where it would be an issue. One last thing I've noticed: Alot of the SxS you see in most gun stores today are peices of junk that no one wants. I believe this is why the haters hate. Can anyone guess why you hardly ever find a nice one? We all have guns. The lucky ones have guns they'll never sale. Oh and don't think a sweet SxS has to cost you a second mortage: www.dhshotguns.com |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Soilarch, I know which post you are referring too. Before you start disclaiming everything I say, read the articles below. I'm not sporting clay expert. Never claimed to be. But I use to shoot alot of skeet when I was younger and circumstances forced me to abandon goals to shoot competively. During that time I got alot instructions from local experts (one friend was an shooting instructor). Now, I go to the local trap club but don't shoot nearly enough. But, the discussion below concerns skeet shooting. Trap shooting I've yet to get a good handle on.
ORIGINAL: Soilarch The whole eye getting confuse is nothing but an excuse for poor shots. There are people born with left eye dominace but right handed or vise versa. Many learn to shoot with the opposite hand or learn to overcome it. Try this. Take your gun and fit it to your shoulder and point it at the ceiling with your right eye closed if your right handed. Imagine shooting a high flying duck. Open both eyes and thats is where you're actually shooting. ORIGINAL: Soilarch The same goes for having to compensate for each barrel. "Without a physics discussion, it is true that getting two barrels affixed side by side to shoot to the same point of aim is a labor intensive and so expensive procedure." from: http://www.myoan.net/shootingart/shotgunfor.html "Side by side shotguns are more widely used for game shooting, although the `pointability` is not as good as an over and under shotgun" http://www.richardfaulds.com/html%5F%5F%5F%5F%5F/faqs/ ORIGINAL: Soilarch Do you have to aim lower when firing the top barrel of an O/U...NO!" Not an expert and will happily eat my words if anyone is willing to correct me on this. Just make sure you're able to back your statements up with expert opinions or examples. As for this tread, SxS vs. O/U, I would go with O/U for target AND field only because I feel comfortable with an O/U. As I said in another thread, if you can shoot better with SxS in both situations, you are much better than me and should stick with it. for patterning how-to: http://www.ospschool.com/know14.html Another link for patterning: http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/.../2000/08/2.htm |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Good post, Mite. I only tried a SxS at skeet once. Didn't have a problem with the high house (I'm right handed by the way), but couldn't hit the broad side of the barn from the low house on 3, 4, and 5. Seemed to me the wide side by side barrels blocked my field of vision....or it was an excuse :).
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I have a old Ruger red label. I love the gun use it for everything from trap to turkeys. It is the only one i will ever shoot when it is wore out i will replace it with the same exact thing
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Mite I'm glad you brought some of those details to my attention. When I talked about having to compensate for whichever barrel is being fired I assumed that it would be read with regards to a properly made gun. THERE ARE double guns that certainly don't pattern well with themselves. I am also sorry if you thought I was trying to downplay the importance of eye dominance, I should've been clearer on that. However, I still believe a person will have very little (if any) more difficulty with this issue on a SxS than an O/U or auto. No one I know personally but I've read other people on other boards having claimed they think the broader "runway" help keep their eye. You are certainly correct that a SxS lends itself to Trap much more than skeet.
As for a guns "pointabilty" I still believe the fit has sovereignty here with balance being a close second...and "balanced" gun is often a matter of taste. Barrel orientation being a non-issue. Not an expert either, and don't ever want to come across "guns-a-blazing" I'm glad you put forth more than a "I hate SxS" or "O/U or the best...duh!" or "Everybody shoots O/U in comp. shooting" And don't worry...I'll do bad at the range regardless of the gun in my hands:D I simply do no worse with a SxS and enjoy it a whole lot more. |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Soilarch, thanks for replying. The ideas or concepts have to do with shooting but I suspect much of it doesn't really apply as much unless you shoot competitely and start missing. SxS are certainly nice guns for skeet or trap because they handle well and would be enough for us.
As you say, as long as you know your limits of your gun and shot and are comfortable with it, you will certainly hit more targets than a gun which you are not comfortable with. If you want to start target shooting, get a qualified instructor. They will help out emminsely. |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
Well I don't have much of an opinion, but like to have one. Who are some good companies that sell SxS shotguns at a reasonable price. I know where I can borrow a Over under, but am having difficulty finding a good Side by Side. I would prefer a 20 or 16 gauge. Not a 12 though. Any input would be appreciated.
Good Luck and Happy Hunting |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
www.dhshotguns.com
Maskerall- I don't know why the addy won't light up as a link but it will get you to Dehaan shotguns. For more info from another source about Dehaan check out the Jan issue of Shooting Sportsman. They did a nice article about the 28 SXS. Mite- Very informative links. Seems like I recall reading something recently that threw out another reason why we Americans have leaned towards O/U, which I personally do not shoot. The jist was that o/u will shoulder much more like a rifle than a sxs which requires the shooter to really bring the gun to face. Maybe it was something Michael Macintosh wrote or maybe it wasn't. Could have been in the book review section of a recent periodical. I'll try and locate what I read to update this thread with some more info. I shoot a sxs with one eye closed, I'll be trying to open both eyes this year in the of season and see if I can improve my wingshooting statistics. I don't have any real intrest in competition shooting, have yet to see a good recipe for clay pieces though I hear soaked in vinegar thaey go as a substitute for bacon bits on salad;) A lot of why I shoot sxs's is due to me. I have always been the one to try what I was told is not the norm or the harder way. It was an unproductive couple of years in the dove field switching from an 870 to the Ithaca 12 sxs and more than one person questioned my act of self imposed misery. [I was able to even take a few dove with the 870 from the hip at one point] Still I persisted and became a decent shot with the ole beast that is choked F/Fuller. When it connects it is deadly. I really came around when I picked up the 16 sxs and became lethal and the 28 I found last summer has proven most effective as well, although my recent trip to the quail field yielded a huge piece of humble pie. They were mostly in the woods that day and I'll go up against any gun who wants to wager on quail in the woods. They are extremely difficult. 5 shots one dead male. Not good %'s but better than not going. Anyay didn't mean to get off track but this is an Upland forum, not a trap or skeet, and I believe that a sxs or an o/u properly fitted to the gunner is a deadly weapon. I prefer the sxs, maybe I'm just trying to be cool though. RE: SHooting I shoot the maintained/sustained method as your link points out. My eyes watch the bird as the gun gets moving and when it shoulders my subconcious pulls one of the triggers as the stock reaches my cheek. I see a dead bird before I pull the trigger. The Brits will perhaps say Bird, Beak, Butt, Bang or something like that. The idea being you see the beak and are ahead of it before the butt finds the little pocket in your shoulder and your face is on the stock which is when you squeeze the trigger. I must tell you that I never stopped to wonder if this was different for a pump. sxs, or o/u. I see the same thing looking down any of them. The BB sight at the end of the barrell and the beak of the bird just behind it, although sometimes slightly below or above the BB depending on the flight pattern of the bird. The best shot I've seen on Dove [and I shoot with many] is who got me started. We started with ducks. I said "how do you kill these da#@ things?" He replied "Look Down The Barrell and shoot em in the head" In a round about way he forced me to focus on the two things I still do today, The BB and the Beak. |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I have an L.C Smith SxS.
To me it was what I always pictured for an upland gun - and I really like it. I wouldn't trade it for any gun. Still I can shoot Grouse much better with my Old Ithaca Featherweight 37 Pump. For me - nothing comes up like that gun. FH |
RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I bought a Citori Lightning 12 gage with 26" barrels about ten years ago and haven't looked back. It is THE gun for me. I have yet to see a man with an auto down three birds while hunting. I have not seen many shoot doubles, for that matter. I have shot many doubles with my O/U. From what I can tell, most auto users spend more on shells. As far as SXS's go, they are nice. I passed on a Browning sxs 20 some years back and wish I had bought it now. I may still own one. I think there is room for both an O/U and a SXS to coexist in my gun cabinet.
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RE: every one with opinons!!!!!!!! come on in !
I shot a12 ga Wingmaster for almost 30 years. In 2001 I bought a Gold Hunter and I love it. But, I also enjoy the nostalgia side a little ( for lack of a better term) and I am shopping for 16 ga sxs. Not high end, just a good solid shooter. My son shoots a Gold Hunter in 4-H competition, but is working on getting a Cynergy, which is a low profile o/u. He also like sxs's, well its safe to say, he likes all guns
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