troutdudes

Hello, I saw a little piece of paper with pheasants that are let out into a field, and then you go hunt them. Do you think this really is ok to do, because I just thought it was unethical.

plz give me your feedback, because I won't be hunting pheasants anytime soon if not for this. aslo, it is the kind of hunt that you pay the person so much a bird and then he just puts them out into a field.


mark

johnch

I do it all the time , and yes it is ethical IMO. The state of Ohio dose it a few times a year in several different places to allow hunters in areas that don't have many wild birds hunt them .
I am a member of a hunt club , 6-8 times a season we release quail, chucker and pheasants (both hens and cocks)and we hunt them either a few hours later or the next morning.
We have hold over birds nesting and raising young.
In my area there is also pay to hunt places that are liscensed by the state ,they place birds in the feilds for you to hunt .
Here in ohio many bird hunters and their dogs only see these birds unless they go out of state.
YES the birds are not as smart but they eat just as good.

gselkhunter

It isn't my favorite way to hunt, but it is a great training tool for young dogs. Or a tune up for my old dogs. I would call it a social event. My friends and I get together and work on dogs, shoot sporting clays and have a good time. Took my son yesterday, he gets a chance to shoot at birds this way and tune his skills.
Gselkhunter

ToddBDS

If you can afford it, give it a try. See if you like it. But don't be confused. You'll be shooting. Not hunting.

Hunting, by its very definition, requires searching for something. Not shooting at something you know is already there because someone planted it. Part of the excitement of hunting comes from the anticipation. You stare off into the distance overlooking a freshly cut milo field and say to your friends "I hope there are a few birds in there. Let's go find out." And when you flush a rooster at the end of the field, it's a surprise that never gets old because it's always unexpected.

Typically, when you walk a field, climb a treesand or cast a bead-head prince nymph, you're taking a gamble. Did you pick the right field, the right treestand or the right fly to affect the desired result? When you use a hunting preserve, you take none of that into consideration because you know exactly where the animal is (or will be). And because of that, you're not hunting in my book.

Is it a great way to work your dogs? Sure. Is it a social event like gselkhunter mentioned? I suppose. Is it ethical? Debatable. Should you try it once and draw your own conclusion? Yeah. Just don't call it hunting.

And don't even get me started on high-fence operations...

Roost em 1st

Troutdudes,

Do you fish for stocked trout? I can't remember but I think you live up in Saskatchewan. Are their no wild pheasants? Pretty far north so maybe not. I don't care where the stocked pheasants come from they are not wild, they may fly well but lack the genetics that wild birds have when it comes to living through a season of being prey. I mean that every year the birds that live to breed are the smartest of the smart. As far as ethical look at how you feel about the trout question. Lots of places would not have pheasant hunting without release hunts and I can't say anything for or against this. I hear that there are release hunts here in KY but I've never been on one, I travel out west instead. Something to be said for "HUNTING" wild birds. IMO.
Dogs need wild birds, IMO.

TYLEETESS

if nothing else this seems like a prime oppurtinity to put a dog on birds, and or take a youth out hunting. if you read some of these posts, people make it sound like planted birds shamefull. i personally find them a great way to get a dog on birds and build their confidence. not everybody, actually very few people live in a place where they can train dogs with wild birds. a lot of people make it sound like a person goes out and plants the birds and 10 minutes later you have them all shot. this is not the case, in fact most people are not able to find all the birds that are planted for them and if they do it is not in 10 minutes and most likely it is left over birds from previous hunts, this is not to say that some preserves have better cover and flyers than others but the fact remains that the birds do run up to you and jump in the back of your vest. it is undebatable that wild birds are not the same as pen raised birds unless left in the field for a period of time. in fact i would bet you would surprised at the number of released birds that you find on so called hunting lodges in south dakota, many of them release birds on their property routinly to keep up the stock and appearance of a wild bird population. they have way too many people convinced that all these thousands of birds are wild birds and when they are hunting them they can't tell the difference. these released birds are also a good way to introduce youth and women hunters to the sport. the more people we can get involved in hunting the better off we the hunters are, there are way too many people trying to take away what is left of the hunting now and the way some people talk about what a slaughter or unethical hunting these preserves are we all need to be looking at this. try one for yourself, make sure they have suittable cover and good birds, ask for recomendations and if you find the right one it very well could change your mind.

drgildy

Tyleetness, you are absolutley correct that a good many birds shot in SD on so called shooting preserves are released birds. Most of them come from Wisconsin and Minnesota game farms. There is on of these great places between my place and where I usually hunt ducks. Quite often on the way home I run over a few of their birds that are sitting in the middle of the road. Guess they think the road is closer to the type of habitat they came from a day or two before. Having said that their is still a fair number of wild birds in the state also but you have to be a rich boy to be able to afford to hunt them anymore.

ToddBDS

First things first: we're all on the same team here. In a world filled with "us vs. them" issues, every single person who posts here should be considered part of the "us". In other words, anyone who carries a gun in the field can sit on my tailgate anytime and drink a beer with me at the end of the day.

But that doesn't mean we won't have disagreements and, when the subject revolves around pen-raised birds, you're bound to get a lot of them. So here's a few common claims I've heard over the years on the subject and my meaningless opinion regarding them:

1. Hunting preserves are a great way to introduce non-hunters to the field.
I suppose you can also argue that NASCAR is a great way to teach a person how to drive, too. Hunting a preserve does not reflect the way things truly are. You can argue that knowing birds are in a field prior to walking it all but guarantees the new hunter will see birds and pull the trigger. That, it turn, may spike his/her interest in our passion. I'll grant you that, but only if you agree that by doing so you place the emphasis on the actual harvest. Not the hunt and everything it entails. See the difference?

2. They provide a great way to train your dog.
I can buy this argument somewhat, but not if your aim is to provide your dog with real-hunt experience (see #1). Pen-raised birds have a tendancy to hold tight. Why? Because they don't know any better. Words like "self-preservation" and "run, Bob, run!" aren't in their vocabulary. Wild birds, on the other hand, will run in front, out the side or behind you. They've spent an entire season dodging predators. When your dog is on wild birds, he learns quickly that birds don't always play fair and simply smelling them doesn't mean he'll find them.

3. They provide a way to hunt pheasants in states without a viable bird population.
There's a reason why you don't hunt brown bears in Kansas. Dall sheep in Oklahoma. Or caribou in Texas. Those animals aren't native to those areas. By bringing the animals to you instead of taking your gun to those animals, you mess with the natural balance of things. And you do so for no other reason than your own selfishness. This argument simply isn't right. If you don't understand that, you probably never will.

4. Private land costs too much to access and hunting on public land stinks.
Tell that to the free 1,000,000 acres of WIHA (walk-in hunting area) land in Kansas and the two birds I took on them over Thanksgiving. Land leased by the state from land owners who agree to uphold set conservation practices to provide access to anyone with a hunting license (and the game we all chase). That's in addition to the thousands of acres in state wildlife areas. And that's just one state out of many. In addition, there are still places where a friendly smile and warm handshake is all you need to gain access to that farmer's milo field west of his house (just make sure you get a county plat book to see who owns what). You're shaking your head "no" right now in disagreement, but when was the last time you tried? QU, Pheasants Forever, even NWTF are also great ways to meet people and, if you're lucky, great ways to get invited onto private land. How else do you think I was able to quail hunt 11,000 acres of private Texas Panhandle land a few years ago?

I know I'm probably in the minority here on this issue, so fire away with your response. It's not like I haven't been peppered before when blocking a field...

TYLEETESS

toddbds
sounds like you live in a perfect world, wish everbody had a dog that didn't need to have a refresher because he/she was such an expert on wild birds that has never walked past a bird or ever made mistakes. i also wish everybody i met was as interested in hunting as i am and knew everything they needed to know without givivng it a try in an enviroment where they can learn and gain some expieriance. it must also be nice to have all the acces to hunting areas such as yourself, as i see you have never had to move to an area that has no bird hunting except preserves so you could support your family. man, really sounds like you have it made.

ToddBDS

I don't live in a perfect world, Tyleetess, but one that's apparently a little more optimistic than yours. And thanks for the sweeping generalizations about my dog, my friends and my "unlimited access" to hunting areas.

No, my dog isn't an expert. He has walked right over his fair share of birds and made plenty of mistakes. Just like me. But I don't think either one of us needs to spend time in the "batting cages taking practice swings" on pen-raised birds just so we both feel better about our skills (or lack thereof).

No, not all of my friends are interested in hunting. Those that are? I take 'em out on a real hunt, with real expectations, taking real gambles on whether we've picked the right field to find birds. THAT'S how they become experienced.

No, I don't have unlimited access to prime hunting land, either. I work hard for the invitations I get. I also don't mind hunting public stuff; "public" does not necessarily equal "crap". I wish more people realized that.

And yes, I actually did moved (at one point) to a part of the country that had no viable bird population to hunt. I made that sacrifice in order to support my family. I was also miserable, even with an understanding wife who didn't throw things when I put thousands of extra miles on my truck searching for regional places to hunt. So instead of living in a place where no birds live and then complaining about my decision to live in a place with no birds, we moved.

On second thought, Tyleetess, stick to your preserves. It'll leave more wild birds for the rest of us.