Pitbulls for Upland Birds?
 

Hi guys, I am new to this forum.

I started hunting grouse and pheasants with friends last year here in Minnesota and now am totally hooked on it. I do not have a dog but just last week my 19 year old daughter showed up with a 12 week old pitbull. He was so smart, friendly and cute, we could not let him go. After doing some research on the internet about that breed, a saw some info about the pitbull being able to bird hunt. Just wanted to get some info from you guys. I already have him trained to retrieve toys and drop them in front of me.

Thanks

Just about any dog can be trained to bird hunt. Be aware s/he won't point though, so be ready to shoot (keep your gun back over your shoulder, just in case you pull the trigger to early it won't hit the dog). Get solid on basic commands (sit, stay, recall) and then introduce a dummy and/or scent. Pits are intelligent, but can sometimes be hard headed. Get him tracking and retreiving dummies in whatever type of area your hunting in, and maybe take him out with some already trained dogs. Good huntin!

You are going to have watch your dog. The first rabbit [insert 4 legged creature] it flushes, its going to give chase and if it catches it, will tear it apart. A lot of hunters with dogs will also want to avoid you. Even if your dog is friendly, they don't want their dogs playing while working in the field. Their dogs won't either and will be aggressive to any strange dog bugging/preventing them from working. Even the most friendliest bird dog, when in the field, will be totally focused upon hunting birds.

You would save yourself a lot of headaches and your daughters dog a lot of scolding if you just let the dog be what it is and purchase a Bird dog for yourself. Bird dogs are bred, not made. Were the Pit's parents and grandparents bird dogs? If not then throw a stick for the dog in the backyard and enjoy the retrieve and companionship.

Yellowsnow has it right.
Pit Bulls were bred to BITE. Do you want a bird delivered to you that is not fit for the table ?
It could possibly be done, but it would take more work than would be worthwhile.
If you want to hunt birds, get a bird dog.



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You guys above may know abou yer setters and labs, but you don't know pits.

I work a shelter, and as of right now, have only come across ONE pit saved from the fighting ring. And let me tell ya, there are a lot of pits there. So as for being bred to bite, get that out of the answer. Pits are bred a LOT for temperment now, and HAVE been used asz bird dogs.

Remember, just about any dog can learn to hunt! Will a setter catch on quicker than a pit? Absolutely! Does that mean the pit is going to be terrible? Maybe, but that setter could be too. All dogs were bred from wolves, therefore they all have hutnig instinct.

Bird dogs are bred not made? What kind of thing is that! I've heard of many well bred, birdy dogs being destroyed through self hunting, scolding, or other misused methods. If you think a good bird dog will find you a covey right out of his mother's womb, you need to rethink your method of training.

Getting a bird dog would be a wise idea, but many peope don't have the time or money for that, so they have to make do with what they've got. That's how life is, except it.

To bird hunt a pitbull is like taking a real Bull in a China shop......Their physically ability to run is all wrong and not built for that. Nor will they have the stamina to stay out there long.

JW

Real mature. People only use dumb things like that when all else fails. Admit it. Especially considering I wrote multiple paragraphs on the subject, all backed up by facts, and all you have is a pic off photobucket.

Red Yote

Exactly what was it that Pit Bulls were bred for ?

Please read my signature line.



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Backed up by facts? Really? I read some opinions based on ignorance or just a lack of understanding. Instead of hijacking this thread to point out the wrong in your post, all I can do is Face Palm.

There is almost 0 chance that you can take a bench dog, a guard dog, a toy dog, or any other dog not bred for hunting and turn into anything adequate for hunting upland birds. There would be a bunch of frustrations for you and the dog and it is not fair to the dog. It is that simple.

To fight, my pint was that some pits are fighting dogs, but others are pet surrenders, bred as pets.

They were not bred to "bite" nescessarily as you pu it, but rather to fight, which does involve biting. But pits are bred as good FIGHTERS, not got biters. Any dog can bite.

I was not saying using a pit for field is a good choice, a setter or a lab is going to be much more effective, but you guys were being so harsh on the person!
I know how this feels too. I had a backyard bred four year old golden I wanted to hunt upland birds with. Around here you dont see goldens hunting uplands in the first place, and everyone said because of her breeding and age I wouldn't be able to train her. She turned out to be one of the best gundogs you'll eer see.

And as for your signature, I suggest buzzing off. I am by no means ignorant. Did you eer hear of something called a friendly debate? I am not about to entirely reject your opinion, even though I do not agree. Getting mean and getting defensive is childish and will get you no where.

+1 Yote Anybody that has that tagline is probably experienced and knowledgeable on the subject, LOL! My Dad's friend had a very smart Pit Bull and he decided to take him out dove hunting with him after some training in the back yard. The dog sat real quiet and John made a nice crossing shot on a dove as it went by and he told Bubba to fetch him up. Bubba ran right out and brought the bird back and dropped it right at John's feet. Then he dug a hole and buried it, LOL!!! End of Bubba's hunting career!

1. So a dog can fight withour biting ?:sad:Could my Lab be trained to be a good fighter/biter :D
2. Get a dog that has been bred (for centuries) to do the job you want.
3. Goldens hunt Upland game very well.



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1. So a dog can fight withour biting ?:sad:Could my Lab be trained to be a good fighter/biter :D

I believe I CLEARLY stated that fighting does involve biting, but more so skill. The way pits fight is much like how a wolf hunts, they make quick nips circling the opponent without stopping to avoid being pinned. Once the opponent is confused is when they go for actually biting. Main point here is that a fighting dog will not nescessarily tear up a bird in the field.

And as for your lab, of course. My golden who is a very good natured dog got into a fight once with a stray lab that tried attacking me. Would I suggest fighting your dog? Of course not. But since you were being sarcastic, let's leae it at that.


2. Get a dog that has been bred (for centuries) to do the job you want.

No duh. But this person has A DOG, not a bred bird dog, but a dog. They obviously have to work with what they've got, so why not try helping them with it instead of knowcking them down?


3. Goldens hunt Upland game very well.

I realize this, I wasn't using her as an example of using a breed that is unlikely to use for upland game, i was saying it hurts to be riticuled by everyone about it. It hurts, and is very discouraging.

Exactly! And since this dog is so young, I think it really does have a chance.

Any dog can be trained to hunt but for the amateur trainer, there will be a lot of frustration for both the trainer/owner and the dog. A good bird dog naturally has 'birdiness' instilled into its gene through centuries of breeding. It takes the trainer very little effort to bring it out but will spend the majority of time teaching the dog how to hunt (one of the reason why gun shyness is so difficult to break; the dog is associating what it wants with what it is afraid of - most trainers will use the dogs natural birdiness to overcome it). A dog without the birdiness has to have it taught or encouraged above its wanting to play and want to chase other game.

Once that is done, they will have to train it to hunt for them and not for itself. It will take a strong trainer and an exceptional smart dog.

I agree...

My uncle used to breed Labs, at the time I had a German shepard, ( I bought it for the girl I was dating and when we split up I ended up with it, the dog didn't care for her at all.) I trained him to retrieve dove/ quail quite well, didnt point or anything. (I didn't need another dog, or i would have gotten a pup from my uncle and wasn't going to give up my German Shepard) He picked it up with minimal training, just being out hunting with my uncles labs. I believe this was a rare case.

My uncle also had a Dogo named cracker who was a damn good bird dog... another rare case.

Dogs are bred with certain attributes to aid them in their purpose.

Pits were bred for bull baiting and fighting....

Bird dogs were bred to hunt birds.

Some dogs can pick up hunting but I don't believe they will be great at it.

One of my good buddies hunts hogs and one his catch dog2 is a shar pei one is a boxer the other is a pit.

Right now my two dogs are a shar pei, and a boxer both trained guard dogs, and don't hunt. My father-in-law has a brittany pup that i'm going to start training when I get home from the desert.



YMMV...

Go ahead and take your dog hunting. Train much and in a way that you and the dog enjoy. The results will be what it is. Beyond all that be nice to the dog. Retrieving is not hunting.

Don't be ignorant.
 

"Their physically ability to run in all wrong..." Ignoring your grammatical error, JW, that comment makes absolutely no sense. And stating "Nor will they have the stamina to stay out there long" just proves your ignorance of the breed. Admitting my bias, I have a pit that pheasant hunts thousands of acres in western KS with me every year. The Brittany that hunts with us quits first. Then the Lab. Then the German Short Hair. The pit never quits. She outruns a much longer and bigger GSH. I have seen that dog out-hunt and out-work "Champion" and "pure-bred" bird dogs. The gameness of the pitbull makes it a great hunting dog- seeing as they were originally bred for bull and bear baiting. The pitbull I had before her never hunted- he was an abused rescue dog that was for obvious reasons gunshy. He was bitten twice, once by a Lab and once by a Golden. Both were the instigators. So, speaking from my experience, pits make great companion dogs, and every once in a while you will find one that can hunt. Do your best. If the dog isn't gunshy, there's a good chance he has a strong prey drive and if you train him well, he will be a great addition to your hunting party.

Pits come in many shapes and sizes from nearly boxer size (little more stout) to monstrous dogs (easily 150lbs and 36" at the shoulder). I can envision a small pit being able to outrun and out endure a traditional gun dog breed - if the owner of the gun dog don't exercise the dog enough. But that is dependent on the individual dog. Like people, athleticism is dependent upon exercise.

I would question the desire. Take a random pit and a random (traditional) bird dog breed. Both never exposed to birds. Let both be trained by two equally professional dog trainers (like Smith brothers, Duffy's, etc.) - one on one with no other influence from other dogs. For the gun dog, how much time would it take from complete novice to finished gun dog vs. the same for the pit? Then take into account how long each trainer spends upon which aspect of training.

Now, consider the failure rate for each if both trainers trained a hundred random dogs (gun dog vs pit).

A simple Gedanken experiment (thought experiment) would be less failures for the gun dog breed but it shows how much is bred into the breed.

My setter is a wuss; She doesn't like dogs who are the same size or larger to sniff or approach her. Especially larger dogs. She immediately comes to me for protection. During hunting season, everything changes. She complete ignores strange dogs and other hunters. I've seen her bowl over another dog because it was in her way. This is the level I would personally expect for any hunting dog, pit or otherwise. Anything less and I would not commit my limited resources and time (a huge portion of my money is going into saving for extending the upcoming season which I would not commit to if I didn't have my setter - normal season is two months which I would be happy with.)

The first rabbit it flushes, its going to give chase and if it catches it, will tear it apart.

I don't know much about Pits, but I can tell you from my own experience that other breds can be "adequate" for bird hunting. My german shepard went most places with me. I took him pheasant hunting with me here in Colorado while my buddies gave me a hard time about it. He was a really well behave dog, and would do just about anything I asked of him. The first few times he was just a extra body to walk the field, My buddy would call him and he would walk to him, then I would call him back and he would zig zag his way through a field between us. That in itself was a help.

After the first few times of him going with us I bought some pheasant scent and would put it on his toys when we would play. The second year we took him he got what was going on. He would flush a pheasant, hunt down wounded birds, and run up do dead birds. He would not pick up birds, he would just sit by them and bark till someone picked it up. He would take off chasing rabbits sometimes, but all I had to do was call him and he would stop and come back.

I"m not saying my German Shepard was a awesome birder by any means. We hunted over the years with a GSP and a few labs of friends and their dogs did a much better job. Our dogs always got along well, there were never any issues. My dog would hunt all day, he had no quit in him.

It was said a pit can't run like a bird dog. Mine sure can we hike the mountains everyday, and he never gets tired from running.

If I was a bird hunter i'm sure I could train him to do it. He's very smart, and really wants to please me. He also has no interest in fighting other dogs unless they start it. He loves all people.

He's my 5th pit, and the best of the bunch.

I too agree with this and you better try in this way. But my opinion is not to use pit bulls in upland bird hunting.

far from expert
 

Recently lost my springer of 15 years. though we hunted more casually in her later years, Trixie was incredible partner and many more established bird hunters envied her close hunting, patience & near telepathic communications with me. regardless - woods, thicket, fields preserves, back bays, ocean, ponds - duck, grouse, woodcock or pheasant she was always ready, and a better hunter than I was a shot. I did not make a trixie a great hunter, she wanted to please. I swore I would never get another dog after losing her. Did not plan on a new dog until time healed the wounds of trix.

along came Cooper a pointer pit mix that was very sick coming from a shelter in GA. This six month old had pneumonia via untreated kennel cough near death., and my friends cousins runs a rescue and was collecting $ for his medical care. I donated & drove him to Animal Hospital, 2 months later with slightly better but weighed half what he should have. I fostered then adopted him. I took on the cooper with no plan of him being a bird dog. Now at 11 months he has a prey drive & a great nose. While he is very timid with people but non aggressive, he is great with every dog even those aggressive towards him. He is obedient and has tagged along on hunts. He was not disruptive and is gradually getting it. So as always patience & luck of the draw has a lot to do with it. So get if you have an obedient non aggressive dog - get some dummies & scent - a friend or two with well trained dogs willing to be patient and have at it. keep your expectations low, but strive for fun. I find dogs learn best from working with better dogs, if their owners are OK with it.- Trixie's best trainer was our neighbors black lab Cole ( one of the most versatile pointing labs I have ever had the pleasure to hunt over)

aside from Cooper losing focus chasing a rabbit or squirrel on occasion - he is finding well hidden scented dummies and bringing them to hand, his mouth is surprisingly gently- so will be a world class gun dog. no. will we get out in the woods or field and have fun. yep - fortunately there is a great Spedie BBQ near my weekend camp & we do not have rely on our hunting skills to eat just yet.

I wouldn't try it. I would be too concerned that if you run into other hunters with dogs and the dogs get close the Pit will attack them. There is a reason their hunting breeds of dogs with generations of breeding to to refine the bird hunting instinct. The instincts bred into pit bulls is not to hunt birds. I would also like to know how much experience red yote has hunting over bird dogs & training birds dogs for hunting.

Been my experience most of the conflict starts with the retrievers. Most of the fights I've seen is a retriever trying to take game away from the first Dog on the kill. I'm not a Dog snob, if the dog will do the job I put them to work.

The trick is to spot their natural inclinations, foster those and even to modify (adapt) your hunt to your Dogs strong points. Basically, instead of trying for a cookie cutter Dog, you adapt.

Pure breeds make the job a lot easier, my last pointer/gun Dog did his pointing duties naturally and needed no real training at all.

I Hunt the heck out of Pheasant with my two Terriers. We have a lot of hedge rows between cultivated fields. My Terriers do an outstanding job of flushing Pheasant out of those hedge rows. They get into spots the pointers and retrievers can't. They've flushed many birds the other dogs have bypassed or gave up on.

But if your Dog is naturally aggressive, good luck. Very few ways to cure that completely and reliably. My Plummer Terrier takes no guff at all from other Dogs, he is less likely to go off on another dog on a hunt away from home, but when he does it is a mess. He latches on a refuses to let go, I keep a strong stick in my pocket to pry his jaws open.

Hey if he likes it and he listens I say go for it. My grandfather hunted with a yorkshire terrier. Had to put a bell on him so he wouldn't get shot as a rabbit!

Reggie
 

Go for it! Don't expect them to make a good retriever (very hard mouth), but their prey drive is great! I've been hunting mine for four years now and often out hunts my GWP. They make great hip dogs and do a damn good job tracking both wing and fur. For anyone thinking about hunting them in the snow, dog boots are a must! I use the same boots that sled dogs use to protect his feet and make sure they have a jacket for when the weather drops below freezing (darn short hair dogs)

I had a papered pit that would run rabbits, tree coon with my hounds. She never really barked on trail but squealed with excitement.. Bad for rabbits cause she was generally very close. But she loved those coons. I did a less then steller job one night knocking a coon out of a tree and it was getting the best of my hound. Jess grabbed the coon and proceeded to throw the coon and my bluetick around like a rag doll for a minute or two... gOOD TIMES.

It would give me the heebie geebies, if I ever encountered a strange (unknown owner} pit bull in the field.

If the dog has the drive to hunt, the nose and isn't afraid of guns, it's totally possible. We have a 2 year old APBT who is a great "bird dog". We started with dummy birds, hiding them here and there. He has the nose for it and the drive. They will point also. One of their deadliest weapons is their tail lol.. it will be straight out when they're onto something. My husband had to retire his yellow lab, who was also a great bird hunting dog. When I got Junior, the pit, I could tell right away he had the drive for it. He actually retrieves better than our Retreiver and he's more gentle. As for other dogs out on the field, he could care less. He's there to do a job and that's all he cares about.

I agree with Yellowsnow Bird dogs are bred its just in their blood, Good Luck

Great, I like your review