Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Hello All,

I would like some advice from an experienced shotgun shooter that understand the relationship between the choke and the load as well as understands the acceptable pattern for turkey.

I currently have a Stoeger 2000 with the Extended Full Turkey choke. I am patterning the gun at 25 yards with #4 and #6 Winchester 2 oz shot using 3". I am getting about 10-15 shots in the head and neck area of the bird. A friend of mine explained to me that his gun gets between 25 and 30 pellets in the head at that distance.

Last weekend I took my first turkey at about 15 to 20 yards and the Turkey floped around a lot. My friend, who was there says that at distance the bird should have been floored.

So how can I tighten up my shot. Should I get a new choke? Should I try heavy shot? I called Stoeger and they told me that the Extended Turkey Choke as a diameter of .673. My friend has a choke on his gun that is ported and has a diameter of .670 and uses heavy shot #4 he also has a 3.5" gun.

Should I try a choke with a smaller diameter? If so how much smaller? Should the choke be ported?

Knowledgable information would be appreciated.

Thanks
Tom

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

I shoot a rem 87o 3'' using a rhino choke(.660) with win high vel. # 6's. I have an avg. of 27 pellets in the vital area of an hs strut turkey target at 40 yards. I use to use the same choke with nitro's 4x5x7 heavy shot wich put an avg. of 34 pellets in the vitals at 40 yards, in my opinoin this is an excellent pattern with both shells. I have shot turkeys at 20 yards that there head looked like it had been ran through a meat grinder and they still flopped around. When you shoot one in the head they are going to flop or at least the ones I've shot have. If you are getting 10-15 pellets in the brain and neck bone that is more than enough to kill a turkey. Try patterning your gun out to 40 yards, this is about as far as you need to shoot a turkey with #6's, I have killed them as far as 52 yards with #6's but it just doesn't have the enrgy that it does under 40 yards. As long as you have 6 to 8 pellets in the brain or neck bone at 40 yards your gun is shooting fine, or you can do like I did and spend hundreds of dollars and try numerous chokes and shell combinations until you get it like you want it, just remember that the tighter your pattern the easier it is to miss them at very close range and believe me it can be done. If you want your gun to have an awsome pattern it is worth the money to buy a rhino choke and shoot Nitro Company 4x5x7 heavy shot, they are the best but they are expensive(choke $90.00, ammunition $5.00 a shell). I quite using the nitro shells because 15 pellets will kill one just as dead as 40 pellets and factory ammo is not near as expensive.

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Your buddy is right about your gun. A decent pattern would be about 30 or more hits in the vitals at 25 -30 yards. when I say vitals I mean Brain and Neck vertabre. I don't count any hits in the fleshy part of the neck. Primos makes a really good turkey pattern. It's a actual X-ray of a turkeys head and neck:)

Before you buy another choke I would try some Winchester extended Range loads. I like #5's. If that doesen't work then maybe try another choke. I'm not to familiar with the gun you have so I really cant recomend a certain brand of choke.. I use a undertaker by HS Strutt. It has a .675 constriction. Works great with win Ext Range loads...

Good luck on your quest it might get a little expensive:D

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

How sensitive is the shot pattern to the choke. For example is there a measurable amount of change in the pattern of the shot by moving in increment of .002 versus .006.

Another way to ask this is, if I were to purchase another choke what number might I look for? What is the minimum number that I could or would theoretically go to.

Thanks
Tom

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

You might want to try giving Kick's Industries or Comp-n-Choke a call and talk to someone there. They deal with this stuff on a daily basis all year round and were very helpful to me last year. It's often easier (and cheaper in the long run) to talk to a pro instead of dumping a pile of money into chokes and loads and just guessing on the combo.
Mikey

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

The stoeger has a smaller bore than most guns(same as benelli and berreta. I've had excellent results with a com n choke xxxfull( .655). My stoeger 2000 with this choke shoots fed fc hv #5 best with and average of 17 lethal hits and 158 hits in a 10" circle at 40 yards. The ext. xfull that came with my gun didn't do as well. It might be a good hevishott choke though.

Borch

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

I could use a vote.

Should I spend $20 to try a box of heavy shot (which I am opposed to because I just think it is insane for shotgun loads)

or

should I invest $50 in a new choke and keep shooting Winchester Supreme at $8 per box.

Thanks
Tom

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

One of my turkey hunting buddies has a Stoeger. Last year on our annual turkey trip, he searched high and low for a extra full turkey choke and was able to find a used one. We patterned that gun and at 45 yards, he was getting 40-50 pellets in the head/neck target!. It was one of the most awesome patterns I've ever seen. He was shooting Winchester, 3", #6 turkey loads. I think I'd try that first. Hevi-shot is expensive, but will probably pattern better.

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

So what diameter choke should I be looking for? I am going to contact on of the choke places suggested above but I would like to get some of yalls input.

Thanks
Tom

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Have you shot the gun at 10 yards to determine the center of your pattern? If not, you may be patterning a fringe of your center density, ie. the majority of your shot is centered off target.

I'm confused about your hesitation on getting hevishot though. It costs $2/shell. At $7/box, a normal turkey round costs you $0.70. Instead of comparing it by the box, compare it by the shell. For roughly $1 more per shell, you can double your average payload. If you only shoot 3 or 4 shells per year, that's $8. Most people spend that each week on coffee.

Not lecturing or pushing your opinion, but personally if I were you I would 1) re-pattern your gun at a closer range to determine center of shot, and 2) try the hevishot. One box of shells is much cheaper than a choke, and you will need to pattern multiple brands from the new choke to boot.

Also, out of curiousity, did you ask a gunsmith/tech at Stoeger which ammunition they find patterns the best? Remember, those guys work/shoot those guns on a daily basis, and know which loads pattern best...;)

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Depends what you like to shoot for shot size. With the tighter barrel bore I was told .650-.660 for 5/6 shot and .660-.670 for 5/4 shot and hevishot. I'm very happy with my .655 comp-n-choke. Although the folks there recommended Win. HV in 6/5. Mine liked the new fed HV Flitecontrol in 5 shot. The Win. HV #5 came in third, but still shot a very good pattern. Yours might like the Win. HV better. Ever gun is different. Even the same model/brand.

Borch

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Tom

I would recommend having the forcing cone polished and lengthened if you're really serious about getting the most out of your shotgun.

In layman's terms, the forcing cone is the constriction in the barrel just beyond the shell's chamber. In a lot of popular guns, it will be less than 1" and be very rough. The wad will again be smashed down as it passes through the choke at the end of the barrel.

A short, rough forcing cone disrupts the smooth constriction of the wadding and bb's and it will ultimately send deformed bb's and an unevenly packed wad out the end of your muzzle.

A smooth, long forcing cone serves to make your pattern more even and consistent. Since your wad is compressed twice (once at the cone, and again at the choke) it is vital to make each compression as smooth as possible to maximize the effectiveness of the buffer material.

Obviously, it won't pack 100 bb's in the kill at 50 yards, but it will help make your gun more consistent.

If your curiosity is piqued, do some more reading about it online or call a good gunsmith.

I hope my advice was useful

Quik

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Thanks for all the advice guys. I spoke with Stoeger on the phone. They were willing to mail me a new choke but I don't think that is the problem so I told them to hold off. I am going to go to the range and pattern but this time I am going to use a 4'X4' peice of paper. It was suggested by the Stoeger representative. Either way they want me to send them the gun. Something I don't want to do until my season is over of course.

Hopefully they can solve my problems.

Thanks
Tom

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

as stated earlier,it all depends on the load you want to use.the tube you have is about what is recommended for the hevishot..660-670 is typically for #6,#5,#4 lead shot.hevishot normally likes .670-675.i shoot #4 hevishot and nitro 4x5x7 with a .670 and am very pleased at 50 yards.both my 870 rem and browning a500g shoot hevishot well with .670 tubes.don't pattern your gun at 30 yards except to make sure your sights match the barrel.always shoot 40-45 yards to find your maximum range.

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

I've spent a hundred bucks or more to pattern my gun. For me it's almost a hobby. I've tried about every shell and I'm on my second choke. I shoot a Rem. 870 w/ 3" shells. Started with the Rem. Turkey chokc and I could get 6-8 in the brain/neck vertabre out to about 35 yards with Win XX Supreme 2ox. #5's. That was the best of all the loads. This year I bought a HS Undertaker and now all my loads will shoot that many pellets to 40 yards. The Hevi-shot just doesn't impress me much if you ever actually look at it. The pellets are not uniform shape or size and most of the pellets are actually smaller than the claimed size so I think that is part of how they achive better patterns. Not worth the money in my book.

I even tried the new Federal Mag Shock with Flight Control wad this spring but they didn't do any better than any other load. I'm sticking with the Win XX 2oz load for now (got my bird last week with them at around 20 yards). It's nice to be able to shoot out to 40 yards but most of the time you won't need to.

RE: Turkey Load Patterning Help
 

Another tip is to get a 30" piece of butcher paper to pattern on, at least at first. My gun shoot very high and to the right and I had to install sights to compensate for this. I still have to aim low on the turkeys to kill them (almost shot over my bird this year, only hits were in the head).