NWTF, RANTING!
 

Man, I love the NWTF banquets but last night just about did me in, At one of the neighboring chapters banquets I feel there was somethings going on that was not right, The Regional Director was the same guy that is over our own chapter and a very nice and likeable fellow, he had a guy with him last night, he introduced him as being some kind of regional manager or something to that extent, anyway he went on to say that this guy would do some banquets for him when he himself could'nt make it, but now as far as saying that this guy was on the NWTF payroll I don't know, but he was in full NWFT attire. What stinks about this deal is that he won 3 of the 6 guns that was offered, He won the gun of the year, which was a beautiful Browning BPS, all engraved and everything, he also won the jakes gun of the year which was a fully camoed pump 20, he won them by the drawings of the tickets from a bucket, After it was over I went up kind of discretely and went thru the buckets of tickets, this guy had 5 or 6 tickets in each bucket and had them fan-folded so they would stick out among the others, knowing that there would be a little kid from the audience do the ticket drawing and that when they feel something like this in the bucket that it would be the one they would draw. It was just a couple of years ago that we had a commitee person in our own chapter that did this on the sportsman package drawings and he won about 75% of the things offered, at our next meeting the Regional director {the same guy that directed this banquet} instructed that he should not do that, now he has his buddy doing the same thing on the guns of the year, Myself I don't see why even someone with the NWTF should even be able to participate in the drawings, I did'nt spend that much money in trying to win these guns but some of the others did, Oh I almost forgot, this guy won the Bennelli that was offered on the "keyring game" also, It was probably run in a fair manner so that don't bother me any.

My point is we have a bunch of people working their butts off to make these thing a great success then something like this comes along and really hurts, After it was over I had a discussion with the regional director and he kind of stood behind his buddy, I had to remind him about the mishap at our banquet a couple years back and some of the comments he made toward that little mishap, the only difference is ours was on a bunch of minor little prizes and not on thousand dollar guns. Makes the whole thing look shabby. I serve on the committee for our own chapter but after this if my feelings don't change I may never attend another NWTF banquet. Sorry for the rant , but this deal just really rubbed me the wrong way.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I understand how you feel. As a committee member who works on lots of functions such as yours in different areas such as DU, PFA, and few others I have see the same thing. People fold their ticket no matter if on the committee or not. And you are right winning 3 guns at one event and is a Regional person will not sit well with many many others. It will hurt your banquet even though the guy paid his money just like you and me.

Now NWTF.
I first joined quite some time ago and then sent a nasty letter asking them to not bother me again. Seems they kept sending me books, calendars, tapes, etc and charging me for it even though I did not order them. Got tired of sending things back and in my state since I did not solicit or order the items - it is mine to keep!

So that is what I did. Then NWTF kept sending me sorta threatening letters!

Finally sent them the state statute.

But I am a memeber again after all these years as the organization is worth while. However I have not received one item so maybe they have learned their lesson.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

If the person was a manager or supervisor of some type then it would be a staff person. Another possibility is that of District Director who is a volunteer that helps out with banquets or other leadership roles on a state level. It is kinda of a no win situation as many times it is the volunteer leaders that poor money into these things, then people complain when they win something.

Some years it is like I have the lucky touch, other years I win little. There was one year I sponsored 8 banquets and attended 3 other special events, and won 4 guns that year. In the end it worked out that the guns I won cost me around $400 to $500 for each gun if you added it all up. Mind you that the win list was a couple of pumps, and a H&R single shot. No complaints as the idea is to raise money. Many times I spend a load of money and win a little something off the chineese raffle. One banqet I went to as a State Chapter President visiting a local chapter, I won a sponsor 870 pump. The committee was offended that I did not donate it back, and felt it was wrong. This was after My wife and I spent $250 for a sponsor couple ticket, played all the rafffle games more than once, bought a $200 item on the live auction. We also traveled almost 3 hours driving each way. and spent another $140 for hotel stay. On top of that, my wife ran the Women in the Outdoors raffle. It really leaves a bad feeling when you drive all that way just to show support and visit with a local chapter, spend the money, even help put on the event, and then deal with this kind of reaction. I have done this similiar thing at many other banquets to show support, and gone home with no winnings, of maybe a call or two. It matters not, if we win anything, but I am pretty sure that the $20 bill in my pocket is a good as the next guys.

Some chapters do not allow the committee to participate in the drawings at all. That works when you have a large banquet, but at the smaller ones it has an impact. As with anything that involves people, you have the good and the bad. I have heard or seen some bad things go on just as well with volunteers and the attendees that make for bad situations. My wife and I look at it as donating money to what we believe in, and if we happen to win something while particpating at a fund raiser that is fine, if not, fine also. Not everyone sees it that way.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Its not the problem whether this guy is an employee of the NWTF or not, his money is as good as anyone elses but our regional director which was the regional director over this banquet also and was the one that called the winning tickets made such a a big deal out of our banquet a couple years ago when one of the guys on the comittee did his sportmans package tickets like that and won several things, he went on to say that things like that did'nt look good and would do nothing but hurt our chapter, in which I fully agree. Now last night before any drawings when he was introducing this guy he stated that he went with him to several or most of his banquets and was a big help to him, And now we have him folding his tickets in the gun of the year drawings, I think that stinks,. I bet its not the first time its happened, after the drawings he said that this guy spends alot of money and that he wins alot of guns, he happens to have his FFL's also, I wonder if he has a gun shop?

Its not that I did'nt win a gun its seeing things like this happen thats not on the up and up, I have won guns in the past, I won some nice prizes last night and bought a couple of live auction items. Alot of "ifs" could be asked here, makes me wonder just what alls going on. If I had'nt of noticed the folded tickets and known that it was a problem I don't think anyone else would have, but seeing it before and checking into it I found out how this guy wins so many guns, maybe they are in cahoots, I hope not, but it sure makes one think.

Out of all the tickets in the 2 buckets for the guns of the year there was one single ticket that was fan-folded besides this fellows.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I agree, can't have it both ways. Funny, I go to many banquets and most all the tickets are folded, so it levels the playing field. It gets real dicy if the buckets are not handled properly, or they have someone drawing tickets that shouldn't be. People get hot over that. I heard some crazy stories from all over, other orgs, and it gets interesting. I also agree, if there is something funny going on, word of mouth will kill things quicker than a 12ga.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I only won one gun in all the Banquets that the NWTF has had and that was back when I was a Chapter Pres. at my own banquet and I donated it back , and have to say I've Kicked myself in the butt a number of times since, but this is the only fair thing to do. As the Chapter Pres. and Committy members put on the funtion, I don't believe they should be able to play in the events they hold. Sorry but as most of the members of the NWTF do, they travel to different banquets in support of the Organization and to support other chapter groups and this is the time to be involed with the Draws. Only when they are not involed with any of the draws.

I even had a Director jump at me one time and say , How come you go to all these banquets , just to win stuff! well that hurt , because my reply was ,, I have never won anything yet at any of them,I bought anything I walked out with , I was just intending for the support. I also quit donating towards all these banquets aswell. In the end that may have been the best thing he said to me , because I quit travelling to others because of that remark, so he saved me money...BT

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

The guy you are talking about most likely had to be a District Director. They do help out the Regional Directors in certain areas when the RD can not attend a banquet or needs help at a large banquet. As far as the drawing I usually make it a point to let someone other than the RD, DD or any committee member do the raffle drawings. I also instruct this person not to pull any odd raffle ticket (fan folded, small/large cards, etc.). This usually makes it fair to the public as your case is never a win-win for the chapter or anyone else involved. I hate to hear anyone unhappy with the NWTF. Hopefully everthing was done in a fair and just manner.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I am relatively new to turkey hunting so last year I joined the NWTF and attended the banquet for our local chapter. In the past year I have not received one thing from the local chapter; not a meeting notice; no events what so ever.

Their annual banquet, and seemingly the only event they have, appeared to be nothing more than the good-ole-boy network getting together to see who could drink the most. I was and still am truly disapointed in our local chapter. I was hoping to to become part of a group of turkey hunters who got together on a regular basis and talked turkey hunting.

I wanted to tap into a wealth of information that can only be gained by talking with older more experienced hunters. Unfortunatly the only thing our local chapter has to be tapped is a keg.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

If in fact his tickets were the only ones that were folded, you and everyone else there at that banquet has a valid complaint!!!!! WTF!! That's plain outright cheating!! I would address this issue right to the NWTF pronto like and get that guy banned!! All us little guys who go to these fund raisers in good faith, then get ripped off by some higher up in the NWTF???[:@]

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

LOL, Paul we need you for the NWTF lawyer complaint department :D

SPATRAT , I know exsactly how you feel , this type of action goes on all over , and it will take people like yourself to put togeather a different layout of meetings which are not easy to do ,, I wish you luck. You can't find any better info on hunting the Wild Turkey then right here and a few other boards , and just think the drinking club doesn't even know what there missing ;) ...BT

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Maytom I went thru both buckets of tickets for the gun of the year and the youth gun of the year, This guys tickets was the only ones I found except one other ticket with a lady's name on it and I think it was the only ticket she bought., I'm hurt, I really enjoy the banquets and worked hard for ours, and thought the world of our RD, but I can't be part of anything like this, The good hard working people that really make these things work, work to hard for their money that they buy the tickets with to be done like this. I hate it and I hope that our RD can come to me face to face and explain just what went on and gone on so I can trust him and the NWTF agian, I really hate to quit the banquets, but unless I change my mind I may have attended my last one.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I know if my committee members were not allowed participate we would lose committee members so they could participate in the raffles and such. Our banquets are by far the best in the area. We give our sponsors a sponsor only drawing with the opportunity to win any of the 4 guns and 3 prints for sponsors only. With 31 sponsors teh odds will be a little over 1 in 4 on winning. Each prize is worth the money it took to sponsor. You can't beat that. That is why our committee participates heavily on the sponsor side. On FEB. 5th we will have our banquet with 15 guns a couple of hunts and all the other auction items. We all encourage commitee participation amongst ourselves in order to boost the banquet. 8 of the 31 sponsors are committee members last year. I do not recall if any committee members won a gun. I have sponsored for 7 years attended several other chapters banquets and have won only 4 guns. 3 of the guns were won at another chapters banquet and people were still pissed off then that a single person had won 3 guns.
I do not however believe that regional directors and assistant directors should be able to participate in the games. Let the committee participate if the winning gets out of hand by one committee person than play pass the ticket.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I don't have a problem with committee members winning guns, even multiple guns, I have done that myself but it was 100% fair and square. On this deal though we have a person in management position that had the only folded tickets in the buckets except one single ticket, he should have known better, he cheated, the hard working members of this chapter deserve better, I feel that they were taking advantage of, I have spoken to a few of them and they did'nt even know anything about what had happened, this is just their 3rd banquet and most had'nt even heard about folding your tickets in a manner to take advantage of the ones that don't. I really like our RD, he works hard and puts on alot of miles in getting these banquets set up, I just did'nt think he would allow something like this to happen, it would be different if this was the first time it happened , but I'm afraid that he knew exactly what was going on since him and this other fellow did alot of banquets together, I'm hurt and I hope that it does not harm our friendship, I have lost alot of trust in him and considered him a friend, I hope that he can tell me the truth and that he was not involved in this but I don't know. Everything that was said and done looks like its going to point right back at both of them.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I've only been to 1 banquet. There was this one guy there that was winning every thing. He won two of the three guns raffled off and he won a **** load of auctions... I haven't been to another since. Not because of the guy cleaning house. Just because I felt like it was all about money. I know the deal... Ol Rob is laughing all the way.;)

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

As a chapter president, I have to chime in on this subject. First, I agree that the individual mentioned was probably a District Director. That position is an unpaid position. Secondly, almost every chapter president I have ever talked to experiences the same problem.....everyone can tell you how to run a chapter better than you do, but never volunteers to do anything to help the situation. I would be willing to be that most chapters would tell you the same thing...they only have about 8-10 people who show up at meetings and out of those 8-10 people you only have 2-3 who do ALL of the work! Do you have any idea how hard it is to organize a banquet with the help of three people? I finally got tired of people telling me how to run the chapter better by simply asking them "Does that mean you're volunteering to chair that project?" You should see the "deer in the headlights look" I get...."You mean you want me to do something for the chapter?" "Well....uh....I don't have the time." As for our chapter, I think I will require no altering of raffle pieces i.e, cards, tickets, etc or the piece is disqualified. I'd like to suggest that instead of complaining about this stuff, why don't you join the committee and be part of the solution to make it better. Oh by the way, most of your committees (Pres, VP, Sec, Treas) have wives, kids, careers, and a personal life on top of the time they invest into the NWTF as VOLUNTEERS. Even as a chapter president, when it comes to my priorities admittedly the NWTF doesn't always come in first. As far as committee and active chapter members being restricted to participating in the auctions...why should the people who do all the work for turkey conservation, chapter volunteer work, etc, etc not be allowed to participate?

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

This was not my local chapter that this happened in and I am on the committee of our home chapter, matter of fact I was one of the ones that got our chapter started, Its not that I don't like the committee members participating in the drawings and games cause they are a big part of what is spent at each banquet. I don't think the RD should allow things like this to happen though when you know it was not the first time it happened as many banquets as they work together, thats my complaint, I think the NWTF is a great organization and that this little ordeal won't hinder our own chapter but I feel like our RD {which is the same guy}has some explaining to do.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

I second what Kits what saying! That must be an awkward situation Strut. Hope it does not happen here.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Strut, I hope you don't drop from the NWTF because of one guy, or one banquet. I think, on balance, the NWTF is a great organization, and I know I wouldn't be able to hunt turkeys as much as I do if they weren't there. I did not carefully read over every word of all the posts on this deal, so I may have missed it, but was there some way, in advance, that this guy was to know that fan folding his tickets was wrong/not permitted??

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Yeah snowdog he had to, after the statements that the RD made after him winning the 2 nd. gun of the year, He said that this guy and himself worked alot of banquets together and that he spends alot of money and wins alot of guns. All this after he rebuked a guy in our home chapter committee to not be folding his sportsmans raffle tickets 2 years earlier. I really like the banquets and hopefully this thing will not come between us cause we are friends and have been for several years but I see this as being really unfair to the guys in that chapter that worked so hard and spent their money to win a gun, To me its kind of like those 2 were working together, at least you know as many banquets as they have done together and the RD also stated that this guy would work a banquet by himself when he was not able to attend, so you know that the gun-winner was aware of what goes on and whats fair and whats not. I will try and attend our next chapter meeting cause its about time to start planning our banquet, we have about 3 guys that do about 95% of the work and I'm one of them, instead of having trouble like this, we need to be doing the opposite and working for each other instead of doing things that separate us. The RD should know better than this if he is concerned about growing bigger and better chapters, something like this could be devastating to that chapter and to other local chapters, I know at that banquet there was at least 3 or 4 chapters represented and they all saw it, I hope things work out without loosing any much needed members in these newer chapters, I probably should'nt have even posted anything about this but it really rubbed me raw and I did'nt like what I saw.

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Hey Maytom. Great 2 c your here too! It all could simply be corrected with a good ole fashioned shake of the bucket! I mean a 10 second earthquake! Also announce that any ticket pulled that was dog-eared would be thrown out!

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Strut--I agree with what you say about what that kind of action can do, and I hope someone puts an end to it. (I also know what you mean about 3 guys putting the banquet together and how unfair it is for "joe average" when one guy, especially a guy in a leadership role, wins all the big prizes!) Hope it stops!!

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

It wont stop becuase it's human nature to get over!!!!

RE: NWTF, RANTING!
 

Well hopefully we can put a great banquet together this spring, I have decided not to let this fiasco bother me and how we plan our banquet, I should'nt have went on the rant like I did, but maybe some of you other guys will be on the look out for things like this when it comes to your own banquet, heck who knows, I may fan-fold all my tickets at the next one;).