Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Well my friend and I went out yesterday morning for a hunt in an area that I have hunted in the past and have seen birds. It is on public land, however, it is so vast that it really doesn't have a lot of hunters on it.

Well, we got on a bird around 8 AM. We set up on him probably around 100-150 yards out. It's tough to tell because we were on the top of a ridge, there was wind, and it was lightly raining. But we both knew that we were close enough.

Anyway, I'd give a yelp, and the bird would respond, but not until 5-10 minutes. I'd give him another call about 5-15 seconds after his gobble. With an occasional cut/yelp.

I couldn't hear any hens with him, but that is not to say there wasn't. We saw some hens around 300 yards away about an hour earlier, so we know they were around. We were hunting in deep woods, without any fields around for maybe 3/4 mile.

Anyway this went on for about an hour, and then he stopped. Tell minutes later he appear. He was walking right toward me about 80 yards away, and from a slightly different direction from where he was gobbling. He stopped about 70 yards away and was looking straight at my two decoys. I already had the gun up and ready. He stood there motionless for what seem like 15 minutes (could have been more like 10). I was using a Primos frictionite call and had to use both hands with the call, so I was unable to call at this time. My friend also did not call (he was about 20 yards from me). I had to gentle put my gun down and made some very soft purrs and clucks. When I did this the Tom started walking. There was a fallen tree that he was behind, and I thought he would cricle and come toward my decoys. But, he just contuned straight down very slowly to where he originally started calling from.

I am very new to this, and have never bagged a turkey. I was very pleased and gained some confidence in calling in this bird though, and I had a great time.

Question, what would you have done differently?

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Maybe as his interest started to go away, i would have tried putting some excitement in my calling, that has worked for me in the past. I have had similar experiences after the tom sees my dekes and looks at them if they are in full view, because okf this I try to put my dekes in a thicker or partially concealed place, since then I have been experiencing more luck, sometimes i wonder if they see the dekes and the lack of motion turns them off.....just a thought.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Early in the season, I've found here in the Northeast we are usually between gobbling peaks, and the gobblers are still with a majority of their hens.

With that said, I always try to do 3 things...

1) Work the bird very early off the roost. This includes finding the roost the night before, sometimes scattering the harem, and getting as close as comfortable to the tom if I don't scatter.

2) If early on doesn't work, and I can't circle around (I hunt private lands surrounded by no-hunting private lands) then I come back around 9:30-10 for a mid-morning hunt. Some of the hens will go off to tend nest/lay an egg and the toms will want company, especially a hot hen...

3) Leave the dekes at home or in the trunk until the end of the season. The toms right now have (a) multiple hens, and (b) expect the hens to come to them.

Besides leaving the dekes at home, Bobco, I probably would not have done much anything different. I am quite aggessive though, so I probably would have moved closer much sooner. Sounds like you had a good day, you've got the rest of the month to get one...good luck...

S&R

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

I would guess that if you would have not used decoys, and would have totally quit calling when he got close, you just might have killed that bird.

I want to choose a setup where the bird cannot see me till he gets in range. This encourages him to keep coming, looking for that hen he heard over there. If you call when he is close, he pinpoints your location. And dekes spook too many birds for my tastes.

Hal

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Thanks for the answers guys. I would have thought that I'd get a few more replies though.

Two things that I'd add is that I know that the bird saw the decoys, they were about 50 yards from him when he stopped for about 15 minutes. But I'm also sure that he did not see me. Even when he saw the decoys, he didn't seem at all alerted to anything.

What I was originally thinking right after the hunt was that maybe when he saw the decoys and he was expecting something, maybe another call or something. I couldn't do that because I need both hands to work my call, and I already had my gun up. I thought that maybe if I got one of those push type caller that you use one hand for it might have helped.

But what you guys seem to be saying is that when he stopped, he expected the hens (decoys) to actually come to him, mainly because of the time of year. And when they did not move after his long stance, he may have become alerted to trouble. Is that correct? I know that everything that we discuss is not 100%, but I do appreciate your help in trying to understand what may have happened.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Having not been there, its very hard to say. Even had I been there, its still somewhat of a guess.

With that in mind, I'd guess that bird was a subordinate bird, and was scared to come over upon seeing your decoys. A subordinate bird will often gobble when far away, then slip up without strutting or gobbling to make sure there isn't a bad boy with that hen he's been hearing.

Your description roughly matches up with that.

Hal

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

I would agree with the other guys that he saw your dekes and expected them to come to him. That being said, if you saw him at 80 yards, a wary bird would expect to see hens at that distance in open woods, so if you didn't have dekes out, he probably would have spooked if he didn't see hens. Your best bet is to make your setup in a place where he can't see a long ways off. Like just over a knob or in a semi-thick area. Make him come looking. Being in an area he can see 80 plus yards is trouble either way. Think about it.
If you were in the woods and someone was calling for you to come, you may come closer, but if you get to an area where you can see a long ways off, and you can't see who is calling for you to come closer, you're gonna smell a rat and not be as anxious to move closer.

Another secret is to scratch in the leaves as much (if not more) than you call. You'd be surprised how effective this can be. Especially on pressured birds.


Good luck!!

Slice

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Yup, that's exactly how he came in.

Wow, that never even crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

My point about the decoys is not that he expected the hen(s) to come to him. I don't think he expected that at all. I'm guessing that since he slipped up quietly, didn't strut, didn't gobble - he wasn't wanting them to come over to him, but rather was slipping in and looking the situation over before he was going to make a move. He wasn't attracting a lot of attention to himself because he didn't want a butt-kicking. I'd guess that once he saw the decoys, he decided he was not coming any closer.

Hal

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

1st of all, don't sweat watching that bird walk away. As long as you learned something, it will truely prove to be a great "experience." There are a couple things I would have probably done differently. Realize, that bird walked until he could see your 'hens'. He knew those hens could see him. In nature, that's more than a tom needs to do. He probably thought they should come to him the rest of the way. You had a few options in your set up that more than likely would have allowed you to bust him. You guys heard him gobbling before you set up if I read your post correctly. I would have put myself between the Tom & my decoys & made him walk by me to see his hens. Another option (& I don't know if you did this) if you set up with the decoys between you & your bird, is to always face them toward you. A tom will generally face his hens to make sure they see him. Along with these 2 set up options, I NEVER call if I can see the bird. Don't give away your position & always keep him wondering & searching. I hope this helps you & I hope you get your bird... keep us informed.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

That's a great idea. I wish I would have thought of that beforehand. Thanks. And yes, we heard him before we set up. And yes, we put the decoys between ourselves and the Tom, probably about 15 yards.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Just to add to the facing the decoys so he will go infront of them. Thats what I did yesterday. I had a jake sneak in and go right infront of them and gobble and half display. Not sure why this was his chosen action since my jake decoy was breading the hen decoy but he did infact go directly infront of them.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Bob,

You asked me, so here goes. The first thing I did (which is what you should have done[:@]) was check the Peak Turkey Gobbling Dates Chart on my site, to see when peak gobbling occurs, and when the gobbling lull / peak breeding occurs in your area.

That told me the toms might be in a gobbling peak in your area now; which usually means they are looking for hens. If the toms are with hens, they don't have to gobble.

One of the guys mentioned subdominance, which, in the case of turkeys, is what this bird was. If a tom is by himself, he is in effect subdominant to larger groups of males. So, he may be leary about coming in to any group of turkeys/decoys. He also may be hunter/gun shy if your season has been open any length of time.

Your setup was good, but might have been better in a smaller area, where the decoys couldn't be seen so far. I also like to put the decoys off to my shooting-side or behind me, that way when a bird hangs up he may be in range.

As to calling, get a moputh diaphragm, so you don't need your hands to call. And, if a particular call doesn't get a bird to come in, try something else. I'd probably have tried a series of loud Assembly Yelps or Lost Yelps. If that didn't work I'd try soft clucks, purrs and whines.

I think you got one of my books, but I can't remember if it was the ElkWhitetail or Turkey Addict's Manual. You obviously need all of them. And if you read the one you got, you know you are going to learn something by them.

I'm not being notified of this topic, so if you have more questions, join me on my board, my site or e-mail me.

Good hunting,

T.R.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Bob,
Always a controversial subject but this is exactly why I gave up decoys consistent to my set-ups years ago.In my neck of the woods I use a jake/hen combination the first week of our season on flocked birds still establishing dominance,which usually is the case around these parts.Its common to have multiple grouped 2 year olds come a runnin to kick butt on that ole buckwing jake deke that 1st week!After dominance is established,and breeding begins as T.R. pointed out my dekes go back into the closet for another year.One on one I want that gobbler looking for me and not my plastic hen.If you wouldn't of had dekes out I'm sure that gobbler wouldv'e kept coming looking for that hen he heard earlier!If he's coming I remain quiet and let him hold the line!Experience has told me you dont need a decoy out to let a gobbler no where your at.A gobblers ability to pinpoint sound at great distances is incredible and I like to use that to my advantage instead of giving myself up using a deke!If he gobbles at your calls more often times than not he knows where you are.The only other thing I would've possibly done different is like S&R set-up closer.The shorter the distance he has to travel the less chances there are in things to go wrong,terrain,hens,hunters,etc..and on a bird like this particular one often times the only thing you end up seeing is a gobblers head just taking a peek!!:)

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Thanks guys. I have another question for you. Do you think that since this bird was a subdominant bird, the bird that I heard gobbling was a different bird?

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Very possible,but the way in which this bird came in I dont think there was another bird!This is exactly how alot of satelite gobblers will approach a set-up.They gobble sparingly and more often times than not come in silent!:)

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

I agree with others about the use of decoys, especially in a wooded setup....let the bird come look for you. Also learned that the hard way early on...they'd come, see the dekes, go into full strut and hang up and wait.....TR also made a good point about putting the dekes to one side allowing the tom to possibly be in range when the bird hangs up on dekes..or like mentioned, leave them in the car....now in field setups, I like dekes on occassion.

TR also mentioned another good point, get and learn the diaphram unless you've been there, done that and can't....there are also alternatives to the diaphram challenged turkey hunters and that would be a push/pull peg button box call like the one on www.rivervalleygamecalls.com that attaches to the barrel of your gun and allows you to have the gun pointed at the bird and still make all your desired turkey calls without the proficiency of using a mouth call.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

One thing I'd probably have done is not called. I usually dont like to call once they're in that close. Unless they aren't going to come in and are walking away. Really there's not much you can do. Sometimes they come in and sometimes they dont.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Rob (or others), a lot of people have mentioned that they will not call if the bird is within eyesight insofar as not giving away their position. One of the things that makes me think about what I did wrong on this bird was the inability to call. But some people mentioned that I should not have called anyway. What do you think?

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Under circumstances when one can see the bird or even know the bird is coming, one doesn't have to call, he's coming.......in your circumstance, he was hung up, he wasn't coming anyway and you have nothing to loose by giving a few seductive soft calls like purrs.....it may be all you needed at that point....if they are coming, let them come look for you.....but if they need a little reassurance....purr or real soft yelps or clucks. At that point you had nothing to loose. Like in my case.....Another PA Success Story..see post.... He was responding great, and coming so I was silent and called only to check on him until I saw him....once I saw him and he was coming I shutup for him to find me......once I saw him head off, I started calling again to keep him located while I moved on him....once I had him committed again and he hung up, I pulled out the MOJO and purred...he stepped out and the rest is...well let's say he'll be on my main beam, half strut gobblin off the limb in about 12-14 months...LOL;)

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Thanks Rob. And congrats!;)

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Bob,
the way I read your story is the bird was 80 yards out and stopped when he saw your dekes.I've seen it happen to many times,it was the dekes that made him stop not your inability to call cause your not a diaphragm user.Sure maybe when he stopped a few seductive or contentment type calls might have coaxed him closer,but the point still remains if he wouldn't have seen the dekes I believe he wouldn't have stopped but wouldv'e held the line in looking for that hen he had heard!:)

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

For what its worth...

Lots of subordinates gobble from afar. I'd guess the bird you heard was the one you saw. Your description is pretty classic subordinate behavior.

Sometimes they'll even gobble if you are close, but will walk the other way. Remember, these guys are scared of a confrontation with another bad boy. The recent butt kicking when they came in looking for love is fresh on their mind. They feel the hormones, but are afraid. They see the decoys, and then they won't come any closer. Fear wins out over hormones.

Hal

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

For what its worth...

BobGobble is right on target. The primary problem was with the decoys, not the calling. Once he saw the decoys, the subordinate bird wasn't coming any closer.

However, calling when he's close typcially causes more problems than it solves, unless you are trying to move a hot, in-range bird to a shootable position, etc. I'd guess that next to decoys, more turkeys have been hung up because of too much calling than any other hunter-controlled variable.

Hal

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

I probably would have shut up also when he came into sight. and if that turned him off slowly progress to getting aggressive. I also probably wouldn't have used dekes.

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

He's absolutely right, it had nothing to do with your inability to use a diaphram call and without the deke's he'd kept coming to look and like others said I'd remained silent.....BUT since the dekes were out and the bird hungup...that's when a couple soft calls, might, not always but might have worked...at that point you had nothing to loose by a couple soft calls and everything to gain....every situation cause for different tactics....

RE: Great Experience Yesterday. Questions.....
 

Thanks guys. You helped me get an understanding.