Opinions on gun size!!!!!
 

I have always wondered if a .410 was good for turkey hunting. I am sure it can kill one but I do wonder a few things. I took my grandson out today for youth season and I called in 2 big gobblers. The first one he shot at was at 23 yards away. It appeared to be a clean miss. The second one I called in I told him to wait until he's practically on top of the decoys. The decoys were between 18 and 20 yards away. He shot at the second one and it appeared to be a clean miss again. We have practiced at these distances many times and he always puts the bulk of the pellets from the shell into an 8" paper plate. Even his first shot ever with a shotgun was a good one. This is his 3rd year of turkey hunting but it was his first opportunity at a live turkey. He is 9 years old and he used 4 shot as his shell. He remained very calm and patient and waited until I told him to shoot and everything. You couldn't have asked for a much better chance. I don't know if he had turkey fever or if it's the gun just isn't strong enough or what. Comments would be appreciated please.

sounds like he was looking over the top of his gun? tell him to follow thru on his shot and not try to look after the shot ! glad to hear you guy's were out hunting together !!

Due to the tight choke patterns used to hit a turkey's head/neck vital area, he will need to learn to "aim" his shots. 1st a turkey gun needs to be sighted-in from the bench like you would do a rifle. A vented rib with 2 posts sights is minimum, better is the iron rifle sights leaf sights used by deer hunters shooting slugs, best is a the special scope for turkey shotguns.

My guess is he's not lined up right on the target. What sights are on his shotgun?

I also have some pics of good turkey targets, but my photo website is down for weekend.

Maybe back on-line this pm.

A .410 is not a good gun for a novice, the small sparse shot string is unforgiving. Get the boy a 20 gauge and he can use it forever.

I agree with OT. My first gun was a blond Stevens 410 bolt action with a tube magazine feed and I learned to shoot grouse, squirrel and rabbit with that little gun. A turkey is a pretty tough bird and a nice well fitted 20 gauge would be something he could use all his life for a variety of small game. That being said a 20 yd shot with even a 410 should have put that gobbler down. I suspect he didn't get down low enough on the barrel.

+1

................on both comments !!

I like using a bow than handguns. Turkey hunting is easy

Yeah, I already told him I'm trading it in on a 20 gauge. I just knew at 7, when I bought the gun that was about all he could handle. Now that he's 9 and grown quite a bit I think a nice 20 gauge will suit him just fine and like you said he really won't need to get anything else unless he wants to.

A .410 is like a 28 gauge - great for experienced hunters, not so much for young kids. I think a teenager could have fun with it, as they're a little larger and typically able to judge distance much better.

If you can afford it, I would recommend a 20 gauge semi-auto; last year I bought my son a Weatherby SA-O8 compact 20ga. After much research I chose the Weatherby, which can be upgraded with an adult-sized stock for ~$60. He used it last season with a fiber optic front bead. I just had it drilled & tapped and mounted a Bushnell Trophy red dot on it for this year. Mossberg sells a model similar to the Weatherby (also manufactured in Turkey) that comes drilled and tapped, and there are multiple other makers now making youth-sized 20ga semis...

Many people will buy a 20ga pump. However, most don't consider or know that the recoil from a turkey load and/or a slug from a 20ga pump is comparable (only a few foot/lbs less) with a 12ga pump. People will argue that kids won't feel the kick for those 1-2 shots; but the gun needs to be sighted in, and I think we all want our kids to shoot more, not less. Get them a gun that fits for length, won't damage their shoulder, and won't cause them flinching and/or jerking the trigger.

Before buying the Weatherby, my son shot my Winchester 20ga pump, and opted to use my Ithaca 12ga pump as he said the pattern was better and the kick was about the same. As a physiologist, after looking at the foot/lbs or recoil from a 12 and 20ga shotgun, to me there was no question about whether to get a pump or semi-auto. Further, when he gets older he can always use the semi-auto on the trap/skeet range for hours without getting tired (or his Dad will steal it :s2: ).

S&R

I fully dis agree with a 28 GA, they pack a punch, just less bb's
but have very close to power of a 12 ga, less recoil, lighter guns, and great for kids(adults too)
problem is more ammo related, not all places stock it
have a look at a chart that show's FPS and LBS of energy, and you can see its NO light weight on power, WAY better than a 410 and IMO< a better gun than a 20 for smaller shooters, due to most guns are lighter and again less recoil from all I have shot
carried many of them over the yrs for upland game birds across the USA
much more fun to me walking with a 5 lb gun than a 7+ lbs one ??

I never said a 28 gauge wasn't powerful, I said a .410 and 28 gauge are better for more experienced shooters. I see many experienced skeet shooters now carrying a 28ga for the fun & challenge.

However, a 28ga is not a large step up over the .410, and I would never recommend a 28ga for a youth. The patterns can be finicky and you won't use it at all for deer; unless its purchased as a dedicated shotshell-only gun, it's not a good hunting gauge.

The recoil on a 28ga is less with target load or 7 shot, but with a hot load (i.e., like a custom turkey load) they will kick like mules due to the light weight of the gun - and you will need a custom 2.75 load to confidently kill turkeys. A 28ga typically weighs 6lbs, my son's 20ga semi with synthetic stock weighs just under 6.5 with the red dot scope. I admit that a half pound can add up for a 9-12 year old, but most youngsters are sitting at a tree or in a blind (they aren't running and gunning at age 10), and my son uses a shooting stick. Thus, weight is only an issue when walking to setup, and if the adrenaline of a gobbling bird doesn't give him enough pep, then Dad can always help.

A 28ga needs custom loads for turkey or you seriously limit the effective killing range. If you ever plan on traveling out of your area to hunt with your son, get him a 20ga - you can find all types of shot and and slugs for 20ga everywhere (2 3/4 and 3in), whereas 28ga ammo (as mentioned) can be very difficult to find.

The recoil table below is from Chuck Hawks (http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm). All guns were pumps; a 20ga semi (with 3" turkey load) is about 20ft/lbs. Recoil from a 10ga is comparable with dangerous game loads for African elephants...

Gauge, length (oz. shot@MV) Gun weight (lbs.) Recoil energy (ft. lbs.)
.410 bore, 2.5" (1/2 at 1200) 5.5 7.1
.410 bore, 3" (11/16 at 1135) 5.5 10.5
28 gauge, 2.75" (3/4 at 1200) 6.0 12.8
20 gauge, 2.75" (7/8 at 1200) 6.5 16.1
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 6.5 21.0
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1175) 6.5 25.0
20 gauge, 3" (1 1/4 at 1185) 6.5 31.0
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 7.0 21.5
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1240) 7.0 27.6
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1180) 7.5 17.3
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1200) 7.5 23.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/4 at 1330) 7.5 32.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 at 1280) 7.5 52.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 7/8 at 1210) 8.75 54.0
10 gauge, 3.5" (2 1/4 at 1210) 10.5 62.9

If they both looked like misses they probably were. He was probably watching the bird, and not focused on the sites and shot over it. A 20ga is the way to go however. I didn't get out today might be able to later this week though. Good luck if ya'll go again
-Jake

For turkey hunting, some people made the switch to a 20 gauge, but me personally, I would never shoot anything except a 12 gauge, and a 3" gun specifically. It's all about getting the maximum payload to your target. Some say it's the weight thing, but really, how much does a 12 gauge pump gun weigh? For what it's costing to try to "soup" up a 20, might as well stick with what works, as in a 12 gauge.

Now about youngsters just getting into hunting, a 20 gauge might fit them better recoil wise than a 12 gauge.

Of all 5 of my kids that use a shotgun for anything, only 3 ever got into turkey hunting when they were little. The other 2 didn't "feel the love". Now all my boys were tough little farts and my oldest daughter was tougher than all 3 of my boys combined. They shudder when she gets pissed :D That being said, they all started with 20 gauges and most still use them to this day. My youngest daughter still uses her 20 for deer and turkey. The other kids have 12's but use their 20's more than them. To me anyway, a shotgun needs to fit even better than a rifle. Especially a birding gun. But with the heavier loads and more often than not your back is parked up against a tree, you don't want a shotgun in their hands that will crack a shoulder bone when pinned up against a tree while turkey hunting. A good auto loader 20 with some #4's and a good full choke is some seriously deadly medicine for turkey and not a whole hell of a lot of recoil. Especially if fitted properly. I personally take a little Browning Citori .410 for rabbits with my dogs. Lot less chance of an accidental pellet hitting one of my speedster mutts if they are closer than I thought. Don't like picking pellets out of my dogs. They have teeth and not afraid to let me know they are mad at me :(

Which ever gauge you decide on - Try these type turkey targets.
It will help teach to aim for neck instead of head.
Plus you'll get to see the where and how many shot really hits vitals.

My particular gun is off 1/2 width of the front left. Would not have known that without practice patterning.

Killing turkey does not require a ton of power! what is required is to get a pellet in the neck or better yet the head. It only requires around 6 FT LB of energy to cleanly dispatch a turkey.
A 410 if legal is more than enough if you mind the distance. Inside 30 yards, no problem. The idea that a big bore 12G is required way is over blown. I have seen turkeys shot and killed with a Crossman C02 .22 with a clean head shot. Matter of fact in CA they now allow turkey hunting with a pellet gun. With cal as low as .117. Todays modern air guns using 18/30n FT LB of muzzle energy is a great tool for the job. It requires a good clean head shot. Drops them like a rock! Now i can see your eyes just a rolling. Ck out you tube. See for yourself. Hunting larger game using lighter equipment is like big game fishing on light tackle.
Its requires a higher level of skill. No cheap over powered shots from a big bore.

You either make a clean kill or a miss. Many less crippled birds.

Untitled by dagwodzz, on Flickr" />

The discussion wasn't about a gun for turkeys - the original poster was asking which gun to get for kids/youth hunting.

I personally can't justify a 10yo using a gun that requires a high degree of marksmanship, especially when some of these kids (my own son included) have enough trouble holding a shotgun steady enough to kill birds with shot due to nerves, adrenaline, and etc..

Cool pic though, and definitely a concept that some of us more experienced hunters could consider (if allowed by your state)...

Youth Gun For turkey hunting
 

I agree the post was about a youth gun. But there was some talk about if a said choice could kill a turkey. I guess I was making the point. The 410 if patternes well could do the job IMHO. Having said that. My then 10 year old daughter killed her first turkey @ 40 yards with a CO2 pellet gun. Head shot. I taught her young how to shoot and handle a weapon.
She out shoots many grown men to this day.
Untitled by dagwodzz, on Flickr
Untitled by dagwodzz, on Flickr

I as well agree that the shots may have been over the top or side. I may just add that with it being a 410, you may wish to go to 6 shot over the 4's just for the added amount of pellets as to over all energy of less pellets.
I also fully agree with maybe trying to go to a 20ga if money and the youths experience and physical ability allows it. If cost is not an issue, try to find a youth 1100 or 11-87. For it is gas operated, less recoil, can add a youth stock, fits youngsters better. Put full stock back on later, same gun, more years to shoot it.