Long Range Patterns
 

After the thread that JW got rid of and having Brad's opinion on 50 and 60 yard shots I thought I would take a couple shots at these ranges to have it on paper. As for his numbers I have Hunted, Guided, and been involved with the turkey thing for over 20 years and since the change over with the large organisation I do not keep up with anything said. When it comes to turkey guns I pattern more then most that I know and am always testing. I never have intended to shoot at turkeys over 40 yards but in the past few years it seems the pressure is so bad in my home area that if you get a bird in close that's the first few days in my areas and after that 40 yards seems to be the closes shots. Most public land tend to have the same problem and the issue is not that I can't call because I have spent time on the stage with some of the biggest names now in the industry in the USA.

Dencity is the most important in my books and being that I can only use 4-5-6's in turkey loads I do not deal with #7 at all so I do not deal with them at all.

I also only shoot a 20 gauge and if you are not updated on the size of turkey loads you only have a payload of 1 1/4 oz of shot. I shoot the Hevi 13 - 3in - #6 - 1 1/4oz Impossible to get the numbers that have been floating around this forum from 12 gauge opinions. On another hand there is a number that should be in the area of the head and having some hit the vertebrae and head of the bird to take down the bird. The question is "will your gun do it " every shot. Some may not want to shoot at these ranges but at times we all misjudge distances and its nice to know that max range.

I went out to the range and shot a few shells and this is what I came up with.

50 Yards




60 yards - shot 2 targets and they were both the same count.

28 ga
 

went to the range today, using a beretta o/u 28ga. flush mount x full choke shooting a duplex 7 and 7.5's in copper. my 30 yd. target looks like your 50 yd. and my 35 yard is just a pinch better than you 60 yd. at 40 yd. at least 1/2 the birds i would hit in the head and neck would run off being hit about 6 times someplace. haven't tried the hevy stuff as i lack the wad to protect the barrel. tomorrow will try shooting nickel shot. anyway, what i came away with, at 35 yards, a dead turkey and at 40 a wounded one. just for whatever

cheers

And for Clarification sake.

The Hevi shot threads are NOT deleted but where moved to be edited. I don't delete posts and if there is a probelm I do contact the person responsible.
Yes there is some good information in those threads.
But there is also so alot of crap and bashing and by several posters.

Be warned if this thread also goes south the guilty will go with it!

Dave.....JW

***I would agree with that comment if all 50 yard shot patterns look like that. However, the 60 yard pattern is certainly not one that should be used on a turkey, as I don't feel there are even enough shot in the entire paper to bother counting or think about killing a bird consistently out that far as it appears that there are only 3 or 4 pellets that actually hit the brain and/or vertebrae on that target, so the number 14 on his target is rather deceiving. IMHO those two targets certainly show what Brad and I were discussing when you have a decent pattern at a certain distance and then increase the distance by 5-10 yards. I also think that the test that 14ga. mentioned in his post also proves that. It's absolutely amazing when you do tests like that and see what a huge difference there is in a pattern with only a 5-10 yard increase in distance! However, I would have to say that if his pattern isn't much better at 35 yards than the 60 yard target Adrian posted that the distance on that gun should be kept to 30 yards for a guaranteed kill---just my opinion though.

Well if memory serves me right going off of what I seen of your patterns before that were right around a 150 avg at 40yds with that same gun, choke and load, I can't for the life of me going off of my years of personal patterning experience see how you could only lose 100 shot going from 40yds to 60yds. The exact same thing can be said from 40yds to 50yds and only losing 50 shot. That would be like saying if your gun shot a 250 30yd pattern you should be able to post a 200 shot pattern at 40yds. I don't know a 20GA out there than can do this with that same load regardless of the choke.

***I would have to agree. I think the comment by Adrian himself as to the pellet count in his 1 1/4 oz load being so low compared to a 12 gauge shows that his gun is nowhere near a 60 yard gun and the target he posted at that distance proves it! I'd sure want a lot more pellets in the head/neck than what that picture shows to be shooting at a live bird with it.

That's why there are very few true 50yd 20GA killers with Hevi-13 #6 loads.

It's gonna take TSS handloads to make a 20GA a 60yd killer.

Very good comments gentlemen time to move on.

JW

For a 20ga not bad... I've actually thought about getting a 20ga for turkey hunting...

That turkey dies at 60 yards as well! Does every turkey probably not.

Would you have posted that 60 yard target to declare that you had a turkey gun that could consistently kill at that range? I think I know your answer, or at least I hope I do!

The odds of getting 4 shot let alone 1 or 2 shot to hit that small vertebrae at a true 60yds is slim and none with a 20GA and that load. And again I don't follow the logic of you even posting the 50 and 60yd patterns here when they don't stack up to your 40yd ones. The same thing also applies like I said for a 250 10" pattern at 30yds and that is very much obtainable with a 20GA and that load with a good choke. You should easily be able to show us a 200 shot 40yd pattern at 40yds to even come close to getting 50 shot in a true 10" at a true 60yds and that is providing you only lose 80 shot over each 10yds instead of 100 shot. And I know of no 20GA gun that will do a true 200 shot 10" pattern with that same load regardless of what choke you use at a true taped 40yds. You can't and won't do this because you know I and any other person who is up on patterning won't buy a 200 shot pattern in a 10" at a taped 40yds with that same Hevi-13 20GA 1 and 1/4oz # 6 load regardless of the choke you shoot.

All I said was "that turkey dies at 60 yards" you can infer whatever you want dispite not having 100 pellets. 20gauge keep in mind a little over half the shot a 3.5 in mag 12 carries.

There is a difference between all the #s you throw around as 100% fact and killing turkeys! I respect that you have a model that you go by and it works for you. I also believe some of us tend to be slightly narrow minded on what is ethical again I'm not advocating 60 yard shots with a 20 gauge I am simple saying "that turkey dies at 60 yards"

*** I'm not saying the target bird wouldn't be dead. My comment was based on your second sentence, which I read as saying you wouldn't shoot that far with that few pellets in the general kill area just like brad and I wouldn't! PS: I haven't tossed around any number in any of my posts and am well aware of the greatly reduced number of shot in a 20 gauge compared to a 12 gauge, especially the 3 1/2 inchers. That ls why some of us are questioning the pattern.

Sorry Topgun I thought I was quoting Brad and was referring to his many references direct at pellet count in an 10 inch circle at various ranges.

Well if you talk to Hal(hawglips) who has done probably more patterning than anyone I know on the internet with maybe the exception of Clark(allaboutshooting), he will say the exact same thing I said about losing 80 to 100 pellets in your 10" at each additional 10yds you shoot. That even goes for TSS shot ***********which is 18g/cc and a lot denser than lead or Hevi-13 or Federal Heavweight. Now if TSS will lose 80 to 100 pellets from 30yds to 40yds and another 80 to 100 shot each additional 10yds out to let's just stop at 60yds, and I have seen some of the 350 shot 20GA patterns that TSS #9's will put up with the heavier 20GA reloads of this shot to where I could see a true 150 10" pattern with it at that distance, but I don't see a 150 10" 40yd pattern from any 20GA putting up even a 50 shot pattern at a true 60yds.

Yep ! all I got to say is This is old gobbler talking and a referral to the "Old Sugar Shot" quotes.

I'm done here , None of who you named has any idea how a Normal shotgun shell shoots in a good pattern. When you want to talk in the numbers that work in what shells are being used then lets talk, but don't give me your Chest pumped pattern numbers of shells that are not in the same league.

Everyone to their own, you boast Patterns and I'll kill the birds I hunt...

Done !

Iv always said there are guys w all the best gear spending countless hours at the local 3d range or shooting their gun and then their are guys who go home w the game. Often times those are different people!

Adrian,

Hal and Clark have forgot more about shotgun patterning than what most know. And that includes you and I.

If you shoot at many birds out there at 60 yards with that lousy 20 gauge pattern you posted showing only 3-4 pellets in the kill zone, IMHO you are not representing yourself very well on this Forum and there will be more wounded than dead birds. With that I'm also done, as that comment about patterns from a person who is supposed to be in the know hurts us all that know you need numbers in a tight area to be ethical!!!

And I too am done here. I said the truth as I know it to be and is. Anyone who takes a 20GA and is shooting Hevi-13 1 and 1/4oz 6's and shoots a turkey at 60yds and calls it a turkey killing son of a gun is not a ethical hunter or a hunter for that matter. That may a upset some. But I can't say I'm sorry for speaking the truth. And the same can go for a lot of guys that take these long crack shots at turkeys with 12GA shotguns that don't have a clue how their gun truly is patterning at that distance and come on here to boast about it or tell folks about their buddy's killing one or two at rediculous yardages. The wild turkey deserves so much better than this kind of silliness.

And Hal and Clark know me well ! matter of fact when I used to visit the NWTF and Old Gobbler forums we all talked about patterns and I don't remember you Brad at all. We could never talk a proper pattern because they were all for #7 pattern counts and I was still #6 and I chased there a$$ all the way with a larger shot. Clark knows his stuff but wants to sell his stuff just as bad. I'm not saying Clark Bush does not know anything but I bought one of his Chokes " Wright" and it never came close to what I was after. Now #7 are not good enough they want the pattern count for #9's now. I'm shooting #6 for Christ sakes get the number right. Yep the 60 yard is not the best and I agree but it kills and its not that I would shoot every time at that range, but don't give me your chest thumping Crap about the 50 yard " ITs a Damn 20 gauge" and one of the best patterns seen with a #6 shot !

Talk to them all Brad because they all know me well.

Adrain,

Nobody I know is thumping chest with anyone. I don't agree with every single thing that Hal or Clark says. And yes I agree they talk to sell what they use or have to sell. Most guys that want to sell something will if they want to be successful at it. But both do know a lot about patterning. Clark should cause he sells chokes for a living. But having said that, Clark only sells what he himself has had good luck with. I have seen quite a few great patterns with the Wrights choke including some with TSS that Hal sells. I can personally tell you back around 2008 Hal swore by Hevi-13 #7's. But now since he is selling TSS to a lot of guys you will now hear him say that a Hevi-13 #7 load will only be good to about 43yds. I know that to be a false statement no matter how Hal tries slicing it. He's got the TSS stuff to promote now, and if some would be future buyers keeps buying the Hevi-13 #7 loads well that is loss revenue for Hal. I'm not supid.

And again I will challenge your 50yd pattern due to what your patterns were that you showed at 40yds. You will not avg 100 in the 10" at 50yds with that gun and choke, and you and I both know it as well as any other 20GA shooters who are shooting that load and any great choke that that they are using. I got quite a few guys that I know very well playing the 20GA patterning game who have tried it all in chokes and loads. Some of the best I have seen for patterns at 40yds with that load would do extremely well to post a 100 shot pattern at a true 50yds. And some were even better than what you posted at 40yds.

I said I was done. You can have the last word if you like.

I respect your opinion only if you respect mine. I'm done , No more to say other then I hate turkey hunting - Lets talk Coyote hunting "I'll kick all your ***** He He he he

Come on please do not go around the word filter! ~ JW

It's a date!

XXXXOOOO

1 day- 2 sets Eastern Coyotes





Ok guys I'm done, I don't need threatening Pm's over this crap...

That's a good haul Adrian. I have killed a coyote and a red fox behind my house here. I seen a gray a few weeks ago. Greys are hard to come by around these parts. I killed one rabbit hunting years ago. That was probably the first one I seen. My dog jumped him up out of a briar patch. He got a face full of lead at 15yds.

You won't get any bad pm's from me.

Brad that was a LUCKY haul , I spend a lot of time in the woods but its not all like that. I talked of shooting a range but not every shot is taken at that. It all boils down to one thing. I patterned my gun and now what it does at the ethical of 45 yards is what I got. I am sad to the Pm's I am getting from people here, I really don't care guys ! I've been around and know as well as you all what a good shot is...

nice yotes!

Those are definitely some big yotes! Good going Adrian!!!

No Comment..............But nice pack of yotes you have there Adrian i need to start thumping those things they are keeping the turkey population down.

Lol... Finally it not me gettin blues...

That looks like a load of fun...

Being a happy married man and killin lots of shtuff doesn't go hand and hand!!!