Pattern / # of hits question....
 

I was wondering about my total hits after patterning my gun.
The gun is a 12ga Mossy 500. I decided to use my 18-1/2" accu-choke barrel with an Undertaker extended turkey choke. I have a Pro Point red dot and am shooting 3", #5, copper plated lead turkey loads with 2oz of shot.

At 35 yards I am getting 30-40 hits in a 10" circle.
At 40 yards I am getting 20-30 hits in a 10" circle.

My question is, am I getting enough pellets in the circle? I have read several different posts regarding number of pellets getting in the circle. I also understand it depends alot on the shells / choke.

It seems like I am getting a pretty good number of pellets in the circle (especially with the shorter barrel) but I just want to be sure since this is my first year for turkey hunting.

Thanks in advance!!

That sounds about right. For grins, draw yourself a "turkey head" and try the pattern.

cool.... thanks for the info. I figured I was in the ballpark on the pattern. 30-35yards and I feel very confident range wise. On out to 40rds I should also still be good. However, with the shorter barrel I think I will try to limit my max range to about 35yrds (which should be plenty with my hunting areas. This will get me started for sure. Maybe next year or this fall I will try with my Excal Vortex crossbow, but for my first season I will use the shotgun. I have high hopes of bagging my first bird next month. :fighting0007:

that isnt even close to the recomended 100 in a 10 inch circle. draw a circle around the densist part of the pattern. then count the hits. if you are not getting at least 70 please do not use that combination. you owe it the turkey to not chance a loss. there are 340 number 5 pellets in a 2oz load. maybe the undertaker is to tight for the 5's. but most likly it is the barrel.

Okay... thanks... that's what I needed to know. When I get some more money, Ill start over again (with the 28" barrel).

The length of the barrel has nothing to do with the patterns. It is all in te choke. The length of the barrell has bearing on velocity and sighting radius only. Its been proven many times over.
Just try another brand of shells or same shells with maybe 6's.

I agree with snapper. I shot my mossberg 500 at 30 yards and had 107 pellets in the turkey target. I use Federals 3in 2oz 5 shot.

I agree 100%

I use Federals and use the factory xx-full turkey choke. Thats a deadly combination.

Dude get some turkey targets. Put them out toat 35 and 40 yards... Shot a couple shells... If you can get 5-8 hits in the turkeys brain and neck vertabre your fine... Were this min of 100 pellets in a 10" circle BS came from I'll never know...

10" circle is for the guy spending hundreds of $$$ on chokes and hundreds of $$$ on shells...

Chance are your wife will want to kill you if you get caught up in the 10" circle BS :happy0157:

I shoot beer cans on old arrow shafts... If I can see through the can after a shot, I'm good... I've never counted the holes in paper before.
Turkeys have round necks... I've never seen a flat one... shooting paper and counting holes is pointless... put the bead on a can 2 feet off the ground from a sittin position, pull the trigger.. if you killed the can, you killed the bird.

Thanks for the info... I will try this for sure. Seems like the more I try to get things set up and tuned in, the more complicated it's getting. Pretty soon I know I'll be chasing the pattern around the paper. Take rabbit or pheasant hunting for instance.... I load up with some number 6's & go. I miss very few rabbits and they are running. Just saying... maybe I'm making this harder than it is.... Also, if I buy more shells I'm getting the $10 all lead turkey loads. I started with the copper-plated ones. My buddy who owns the property where I hunt walked right up within 20 feet of a whole flock of birds yesterday before they scattered. He said they didn't even act all that afraid of him. Granted.... he didn't have a gun in his hands!!! lol...

Well, I know I've watched this evolve since it became popular in the early 80's... gear gets more expensive every year and fads come and go, same as anything else... The pattern thing is a gimmick to sell stuff, does it work? Sure... I've killed turkeys with a modified choke and #7 shot.. I've probably shot more turkeys than most folks will see... get married up to a gun and shoot it, get a choke and some good shells and see how it patterns. If you can put 8-10 shots in a turkeys head/neck hes going down.

Dude sounds like your going to be just fine this spring!!!

Tell your buddy to stop scaring the birds... You want them to still be stupid by opening day:s4:

well the 100 hits in a 10 inch circle is to allow for a little le-way...
what you want is 80 hits in a 10 inch circle which accounts to 1 hit per square inch. i did not say a minimum of 100. the 100 hits is to allow for a little give because i do not care who you are you will not be able to say for certain if that bird is 40 yds or 43 yds.
obviously i am the one on here that doesnt know anything about turkey hunting or patterns so the best of luck. i am so glad the internet has guys on here that can over rule and make new acceptances...

My conception of all this is: the more shot in that ten inch circle, the better chance you have of killing the turkey humanely. I was questioning how many hits I needed myself. Feel better now. Just handed a friend (who will be a first time turkey hunter this year) one of my guns to use this spring. Mossburg 535 with a simmons prodiamond scope and a Winchester extra-full choke and a box of Winchester 3 1/2" #6 turkey shot. I patterned it at 40 yards and had 125 shots in the ten inch circle. I think my friend has a pretty good shot at his first turkey.

thats exactly what the 100 in a 10 is all about. a clean ethical harvest. absolutly knowing with out a doubt that turkey is dead and not going to maybe get wounded and if you pull the shot slightly he is still dead.and if you got 125 with the lead and not htl then you my friend have a super gun/shell combo right there.
people dont understand the ethics invoved in this......

The problem with just shooting at a turkey head target or any other small target is that you can't see what your whole pattern is doing or where your shotgun is throwing the center of your pattern. Trust me not all shotguns (even really expensive ones) throw their patterns perfect to the point of aim of the bead sight. Also different chokes and shells can shift your point of impact too.

Do what you like but you can shoot the same shell through the same gun and choke at a small turkey target and get 6 radically different results never knowing what the heck is going on. Did you pull the shot? Was the center of the pattern high, low, left, right? Who knows unless you shoot at a large sheet of paper. Only then can you truly tell which shell/choke combo is throwing the best pattern and whether you need an adjustable sight to get it centered to point of aim.

And it's not like it's a major expense to shoot a sheet of poster paper or a section of craft paper. If you like you can still tape a turkey head target in the center of it. But one shot at a large sheet of paper will tell you more about what you, your gun, shell and choke are doing than ten shots at a can or small target.

Last time I checked a turkey's head wasn't a 10" circle? Guess they've changed since I saw one yesterday morning though.

My aim point is in my Team 's Avatar and I still go by 8 to 12 pellets holes in that target only in the neck vertebrae and the skull that counts. That is how I determine my pattern and my distance. Have usd this for 25 years.

My gun's aim point is the Waddles - tha part where the feathers stop and the skin starts on a turkey's head. And that is the center of the bottom of my circular pattern. That way I know my whole pattern covers the head from the Waddles to the Snood!

Go ahead and shoot beer or soda cans. But I know where my pattern is with my round of choice.
And I strongly suggest that one use a form of Tru-Glo sights or a scope. With today's very tight turkey chokes it is far to easy to miss a bird. With sights such as I mentioned it forces the hunter to concentrate on correct linement of the front and rear sight to the target which stops head creep of making one sneak their cheek up off the stock.

But do like you want - all I know I missed a few birds and found out why. That has not happened now in over 23 yrs....

JW

perfectly said

it is not about a turkeys head being a 10 inch circle. this is about pattern.

I found some old wrapping paper and did more shooting. I also adjusted my sight. The shots were somewhat to the left and high. Looking much better about 80 pellets. This is at 30yrds at 20 it blew the paper in some pices ... Just doesn't want to pattern at 40. So I'm pretty sure it is the shells. It was also sort of breezy out the first day. I don't know if that would affect the shot that drastically at those ranges or not. Like mentioned, Ill try some different shells. If I can't get it better Ill be limiting my shots to 30yds. Thanks for all the info / input.

Just curious what shot size and choke you using? I think magnum 6 and 7 1/2's are good out to 60 yards with a supertight choke, JMO

Sorry but this not correct. This author did not mean that a 10 inch turkey head exists but I think he means a 10 inch tight pattern is better than a turkey head size 2-4 inches. That's how I took it anyways, no disrespect just pointing eyes in the right direction on this post.

Everyone has their own way of pattering their guns. I as well aim at the waddels and have had great success aiming there.

I use a rem 870 express magnum with a rhino choke and Nitro 4x5x7 Hevi- shot.
I get 67 pellets in a turkey head target. Plenty!

Wow that is good! I'd be lucky to get 20 haha.

This isn't meant to be a smart remark or anything... but if I take a 3d target, like a can the approx height of a turkey and shoot it... I know what my pattern looks like without shootin a piece of paper. I know if I pulled the shot, I know if I have holes... I dont care what happens outside of that can... I just know the can is dead, and so wont a turkey... I don't care if you've shot 200 turkeys over the last 50 years or whatever... count all the holes you want... If you put a beer can on a stick and rock its ass at 35 yards... Turkeys goin down. Anything outside of that is details that wont matter if ya cant shoot.

I agree with both of you but saying that have to pull towards Todd1700 more because a beer can is not a proper way of patterning any load on any shotgun. I have seen a shotgun shoot well out of a soda can radius to the left, right, up, or down. That being said I do see gun870guy's point in that if I am shooting at a turkey, deer, rabbit, or any game's head or neck I won't have a shotgun with me that does not shoot a very close POA.

No offense taken and none intended to you. But I have seen shotguns that threw the center of their patterns 6 inches low and 6 inches right at 40 yards. Shooting at a large piece of paper with a bullseye of some sort on it will reveal such a fact imediately. Shooting at a small target ehhh, maybe not so much.

Lets say you carry a new choke and a few different types of shells out for a test drive. You fire at a can 40 yards away with shell 1 and approach it to see that there is only a few holes in it. So you think, "well that shell sucks." But maybe not. For all you know it threw a great pattern but to the left or right of the can.

As for the 100 pellets inside 10 inches, it's just sort of a general guideline for what many consider to be a good pattern. Obviously it doesn't mean if you are only getting 90 pellets in a 10 inch circle turkeys are going to laugh and walk off from you. And yes we know a turkeys head isn't 10 inches wide. Having a good dense pattern inside a 10 inch circle gives you a little wiggle room for not being perfect with your shot. Pull the shot a few inches? Matters not as long as you keep his head inside that 10 inch cone of death. It's about there not being anywhere his head can find a gap inside that circle. Let me show ya.

Draw a turkeys head anywhere in this circle that he could have survived.



And because I know exactly where the center of my pattern is going (adjusted perfectly to point of aim with a red dot scope) I can center Mr Toms head like this in that pattern.

I understand what your saying... I'm saying you don't have to get caught up in all that. You can kill a bird with far less than what you show above. Is there a benefit in seeing this pattern? Sure... Is it necessary... Nope...
8-10 pellets in the head and neck, you have 60, which is great. The majority of turkeys survive cause folks miss, not because of some hole in their pattern, If you have a bird at 35 yards and you hit the trigger on it and it survives... You missed.
I've guided hunts that end up in the "I missed, huh, must be this gun" stuff... That's always funny

Win. Supremes 3", #5, 2oz shot, Undertaker (I believe it's .664 or .665..... I can tell what it's doing. It's simply spreading out when I go much past 30yrds. I don't think it's the sight or the pattern is missing the target. When I put in a regular #6 2-3/4" cheap Winchester and go up to about 20yrds. It hits the paper right where I aim and shreds it to pieces. I had a big box on a stump and using a big piece of wrapping paper so I can see my hits. I was just messing around and fired 4 shots of regular 2-3/4 #6's and blew the box right off the stump. The regular old #6's seem to be right on at close ranges. I think I may have to go to a #6 in the turkey load instead of a #5. I also may try some of the cheap Hi-density all lead shots. Never know. If I can't get it better with the next box of shells, I will use my Excal Vortex crossbow. I can hit a spot the size of a half dollar at 40 yards when using a rest and no wind. And I am not BS'ing or exaggerating. The crossbow is DEADLY accurate with my GT's and brass inserts. It's just that I originally thought I would have a better chance of tagging my first bird with a shotgun.... maybe not. I can see the what everyone is saying and I think everyone has some good info and its makes sense the different possibilities everyone is pointing out. With all this mind, I believe I will try some #6's. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, that choke simply may not pattern well with the #5's. Thanks... hope I haven't got too much controversy stirred up over this. Just trying to git 'r done....

Yep shoot at a turkey head target. Any shot outside of the head and neck. Doesn't matter much. Its not hittin anything anyway. Get the bulk or the center of your pattern on his noggin and neck. Vertebrae and brain! Turkeys were killed for years with 2 3/4hrs shells. Now most of us have specialized turkey guns. But it all boils down to sending a good flurry of shot to the head and neck consistently on a head and neck target. Good luck this spring.

Guys, just pattern your guns however you want. Some people may just feel comfortable hitting a turkey with the very edge of their pattern, which can still kill the bird, it just brings you closer to missing. I just like to know what my gun is capable of. And the rest of the pellets can matter. We aim at the head/neck for a reason. If you are hitting their head/neck with the edge of your pattern, how do you know the center of your pattern is not right on that bird's breast?

Correction: my 125 hits was with 3 1/2" Winchester #5 turkey shot, not #6s.

Well I bout got it... but ran out of shells again.... I have it where Im getting at least 30 hits in the neck and head!!!! But the bulk of my pattern is still hitting to the left. This is at 40 yards. One more box and ill have it patterned so well the turkey will not have a head left. BTW - this is with all lead $9.99 turkey nitro loads.... They pattern 100 times better than the $20 a box loads. Thank you all for your help. By the end of today I will have my gun finished and WILL NOT EVEN PICK IT UP before opening day. PERIOD


P.S. - I WILL POSTING SOME PATTERN PICS LATER TODAY!. I agree with the points of an ethical shot 100%. That is why I am still working on this pattern. I feel $50-$74 worth of shells is a small price to pay for the piece of mind knowing that turkey's head is going to be F-ING GONE after I pull the trigger.... :) I doubt there will be much neck left to step on. I would say close to 300 pellets are hitting my 24x24 inch paper. WHen Im done I figure I should have 200-250 pellets in the 10 inch circle with at least 50-60 in the neck, head, & spine ares. Like I wa saying... I have at minimum of 30 hits in this area already. It's been an experience just getting set up and I love it. I was concern about cost at first since I am disabled with hardly any income, but Ive spent so much already, there is no turning back now. Definately cost at multiple times over as much as deer hunting costs....lol Thank you so much guys & gals..... love you people & the sight.