Acceptable pattern?
 

I just went out today and checked the pattern on my shotgun.

My set-up is as follows-
Mossberg 500 12 guage w/ 28" ported barrel, white front bead, gold rear bead.

I have a Carlson's extended choke Hevi shot full, .700"

I am shooting Winchester Supreme High Velocity Turkey loads. 3" 1/ 3/4 oz #5's.

I first checked the pattern at 20 yards (approximately), and then moved to 40 yds (approximately).

The 20 yard pattern was centered just low of my aiming point.

I was using butcher paper for the pattern.

I then moved to 40 yards and used a single sheet of butcher paper also. There were surely some off the paper at 40 yards, but I don't know how much, though after shooting at 20 yards, I am pretty certain the load was centered left to right on the paper.

I counted 121 hits at 20 yards, and 44 hits at 40 yards within a 10" ciricle which I figured to be close to the average center of the total pattern.

Is this acceptable, or do I need to work with a different load?

Here are a couple pics.

Thanks,

Marcial

The generally accepted minimum pellet count for a killing pattern is 100 pellets in a 10" circle at any given yardage.

If you are intent on sticking with lead I would suggest going to #6's and getting a choke somewhere in the .650-.660 range.

If you would like to switch to heavier than lead I would try Hevi-13 3" 2oz #6's with a choke in the .660-.665 range.

Of course you could just shoot Nitro #7's and be done with it! LOL

Good luck!

looks good to me

Thanks for the info. I was not sure what the general rule was. I will check on some others.

Thanks,

Marcial

X2 on Hurricane's post. You could also try the new Hevi 13 7's which will be out in about a wk. I just ordered 2 boxes from Midway.

Dan

Thanks guys. I am going to try a couple different things here before buying a new choke.

I bought a box of Federal 1 3/4 oz of #6's in the 3 inch, and also I found a Winchester load of 2 oz of #4's. I will check with these two and see how they do. If I can get closer to 100 with either one, then I will see. If I am still a ways off, then I will got with a tighter choke.

Thanks again,

Marcial

My best pattern i got out of my gun (Mossberg 835) was with winchester 3.5inch High Velocity 6 shot with a jellyhead choke. I got 112 BB's in an 8 inch circle (1 gallon lid to ice cream). That was at 40 yards as well. If your going to shoot lead i def recommend winchester.

I am definately going to stick with lead. I have not found anything else local. The stuff I bought today, there was plenty of boxes left, so I will be able to check my pattern, and then go back after another box. I can't afford to buy 2 or 3 boxes of the fancy stuff over the internet, only to find out it won't work. Also, if I need it, I need it, and can't wait for it to be delivered. Kinda how it is when you live out in the sticks.

Later,

Marcial

I know what you mean. I was tempted to switch over to the Heavier-than-lead shot but then after thinking about it, all my turkeys that i have killed have been within 40 yards and my gun is patterning well enough that ill save my money and stick with the lead shot.

Don't feel you have to achieve a state of perfection right away. Experiment as time and $ permit, if you run out of one or the other before season opens, hunt with the best load you got, then start tinkering again next year. I like to play, so I make it a goal to try a new load or two every year. Got a damn good one right now, but who knows if next year I won't find a better one?

You don't have to worry whether hevishot "works". It patterns better than lead every time.

Honestly I woundn't hunt with the pattern you are shooting unless you limited your shots to less than 30 yards.

As Hurricane said, the distance at which you get 100 hits in a 10" establishes your minimally acceptable pattern and distance. And a .700 choke is really not tight at all.

IF you are determined to go cheap then I would use 6s in 3", 2oz loads.

After buying 2-4 boxes 10 count boxes of lead shells trying to find something that would shoot you could have had a box of Hevishot 3" 6s.

MC

The heavier than lead stuff is pretty awesome. I used to think I would just stick with lead, but after trying some 3.5" 2.25 oz #6 Hevi-13's I'll never go back. If you can get your hands on some, try it!

Mossberg

You need a tigher choke. lead shot needs a tighter choke then hevi shot does. With my 870 rem i had a factor full and I would only get 45 in 10" plate at 30 yards using cheap rem nitro 5 shot. I got jellyhead .660 and at 30 yards it jump up to 177 pellets at 30 yards.

But at 40 yards it went down to 44-45 again. At 15 yards it like shooting a slug at a turkeys head. I was told I would either need hevi shot to raise the count at 40 or get even tighter choke for lead. Also polishing your barrel will help.

If you want some help you should check out forum called old gobbler. They know their gun and chokes and have a forum just for your problem. Mossberg like more open choke then rem becuase of the way the barrel is made but .700 is just to big you need something around .670 or so.

.

Thanks for the info guys! I did order a .665 choke today, after reading what everyone had to say. I will check that with the lead loads. I will also try to find some Hevi-Shot locally, but I have just not seen it.

Thanks again,

Marcial

What choke? . You should really check out old gobbler before buying anything. http://oldgobbler.com/TheForum/index.php/board,2.0.html

Or atleast do some reseach. you get to tight a choke it will blow your pattern out. Good luck

Bigturkeys - I ordered the choke prior to seeing you post. It is a Cabelas turkey choke, that is made by Carlson. I have had good luck with Carlson chokes for steel for birds, and have no reason to believe that they won't pattern decent with the loads I have. The patterns I shot earlier with the Full choke I have are even, just not very dense at the extended ranges.

thanks for your insight though, and I will probably be checking that site out for other ideas also.

Marcial

Reason why i said thaT was Mossberg barrels from the factor are not very smooth and you might get really good results just from polishing your barrel and for lead you do need a tighter choke but for hevi you might not need a new choke but instead a good polish. Just trying to save you some money. If you look down your barrel it should look like a mirro if not clean it then look. If it still looks ruff you need it to be polish. Good luck.

bigturkey's comments on barrel poliching to impriove pattern performance are good, it's even better advice for choke tubes.

Even if your choke tube is new out of the box, a quick cleaning will improve it's performance.

Actually, I lied. The choke was .680, I thought it was .665. But heck, even if I have to limit myself to 30 or 35 yards to kill a turkey then so be it.

People thought I was crazy going after antelope with a recurve also, and I managed. I didn't get one, but I didn't wound any either. I figured I just needed to be a better hunter. I know people who killed turkeys with bird shot, before "turkey loads" were even invented. I always seem to handicap myself somehow, but I seem to enjoy the hunts just as much regardless if I pull the trigger or release the arrow. I'll bet people would call me crazy too if I told them I went after elk with real black powder and a lead bullet with no sabot, but I have the meat in the freezer, and the recovered bullet to prove it!

Joe A and Bigturkeys - Thanks again for that info on polishing the barrels. I have no idea. I have had this shotgun for 10 years and can't say how many shells have been through it, but I have never thought to polish the barrel. I just find a load, check it a few times, stick with that for the season, and go kill birds.

Later,

Marcial

Take a ride to the Lowe's and spend a few bucks on a roll of contractors paper. Its 36x36" and $12 will buy you about 150' of it... more than you'll ever need. You want to make sure you capture as much of your pattern as possible.

While you are there... get a 100' measuring tape... and make sure you are 40 yards away.... not crucial... but I've seen some pretty wild guesses in my day. I think your set up will be fine.... you just want to make sure that the gun is shooting Point of Aim to Point of Impact (read: straight).

Thanks Swamp. Never thought of the contractors paper. I have just been using butcher paper, but it doesn't catch the whole load at farther distances.

Thats the only glaring issue I've seen in what you are working on.... sounds like you are going about it just right. Shoot at the center and find the densest part of your pattern with your 10" circle template... hopefully its in the middle of your paper, covering your point of aim and configured about 60/40. (thats 60% of the pattern in the top half of the target, 40% below it.... 70/30 is ok too).

Looks ok by me @ 20 for sure, That pattern should kill birds @ 40 too, from what I can see on there, no big holes in it. To try either #6 or maybe a xtra full Undertaker shud close it up @ 40 though, I'd try the #6 first, maybe you know someone else you can bum a couple off to try? Had really good luck with wwsupreme buffered #6 and an undertaker in three different guns, so, I have faith in that choke,too. It's not a wallet buster either.
Less than hevishot or nitro, and definitely more effective than #7 anything, unless it's under 30 yds.

try using the winchester extened range
to be honest with you my moss. 500 would shoot great one season then the next it wouldnt pattern worth a crap so i bought a 835 and love it

Its all in how much you enjoy patterning...There are countless options setting up your turkey rig...An acceptable hunting pattern can be what the shooter deems all he or she needs for their range preference.. Lead had killed turkeys for years and will continue until non toxic shot regulations force it out of the game..for the most efficient patterning hevi shot, tungsten are above and beyond the capabilities of lead...With the Nitro, Hevi 13 or Fed HW pellets the performance can be made outstanding once you've matched a choke with a polished barrel and/or choke that compliments the load...For bare bones affordable performance with that 500 mossy and Hevi 13 6's the carlsons .660 as mentioned by another post is a great start..Shoot the Hevi13 3" 2oz 6's or 7's. Nitrocompany ammo would be your next step but the mentioned loads will be great..

Good luck on your setup!

I think you need to do some penetration test on hevi #7's. They are effective way beyond 30 yards.