76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 774
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche
I simply don't like the idea of GW's lurking around in the woods in full camo. Hell, I dont like the idea of them wandering around the woods on opening day of hunting season in regular uniform. Its simply unsafe and a good way to lead to confrontations like this. I realize that game laws need to be enforced, and respect the job that GW's have to do. But there has got to be a better way to do it than situations like this.
I simply don't like the idea of GW's lurking around in the woods in full camo. Hell, I dont like the idea of them wandering around the woods on opening day of hunting season in regular uniform. Its simply unsafe and a good way to lead to confrontations like this. I realize that game laws need to be enforced, and respect the job that GW's have to do. But there has got to be a better way to do it than situations like this.
04-14-2009, 02:29 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indy
Posts: 728
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
Let's feel sorry for the poor criminal- You all here should be the ones screaming for the law to be upheld, but we want to attack the warden first andtake 1 jerk in Alabama who did something wrong and make it every CO or GW....We are to uphold the law as hunters where ever we hunt and be ethical. We are to do the right thing even when no CO is lurking, We should be ticked the guy died because of posibly his own actions....If you are asked or told by and officer to do something do we argue or do it? You respect him and then after it is over you can press charges or file a complaint. You don't get shot being calm and obeying the orders....Should the guy have died over a baiting violation, no, but I'll tell you this as I said earlier You pull a gun on me and make me choose who get to go home...I am everytime.
We are the crew here that should be talking about the protection of those who put their life out there every day for us and for the creatures we hold dear...If this guy was breaking the law (as it sounds like it could be) maybe the officer got the info in a situation where he had to go alone. If he was a 12 year vet he knew what he was doing. As far as whining about the way they dress, here in Indiana they had to wear their green uniform and shiny silver/gold bagdes all the time until a few years ago. They changed because the brass made them stand out. They are out there in conditions that would make you or me be scared and due to resources they are put in positions to be alone, just as State Troopers. It is unconscionable that someone here would make the comment that there is only one side of the story...The live GW's side. Now if the facts prove he is guilty than so be it, but until then I am one his side right or wrong.
Copied from a different site- Here is what I was told by a warden ,Minton and another warden where out doing there thing,they were going to check out the farm on cane creek.Minton knew the land so he went.He came across Coffee setting in a tree stand hunting turkey over bait.He told Coffee to come down and he would not.So they fussed for about 15 min and Coffee was telling Minton that it was his land and he could do what ever where ever and if he did not leave he would shot him.Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP....
In NC the Game Warden has more rights than the land owner if he thinks game laws are being broke.They can come and go on your land as the please and even in your home,Like it or Not.I also think that,that kind of power goes to there head and they think to put it nicey they are god.I have not use what so ever for the game warden.And because the is a family without a dad,granddad and a county that has lost a good man,why,because of a pill of corn..[censored] shame.Please remember this family in your prayers...
We are the crew here that should be talking about the protection of those who put their life out there every day for us and for the creatures we hold dear...If this guy was breaking the law (as it sounds like it could be) maybe the officer got the info in a situation where he had to go alone. If he was a 12 year vet he knew what he was doing. As far as whining about the way they dress, here in Indiana they had to wear their green uniform and shiny silver/gold bagdes all the time until a few years ago. They changed because the brass made them stand out. They are out there in conditions that would make you or me be scared and due to resources they are put in positions to be alone, just as State Troopers. It is unconscionable that someone here would make the comment that there is only one side of the story...The live GW's side. Now if the facts prove he is guilty than so be it, but until then I am one his side right or wrong.
Copied from a different site- Here is what I was told by a warden ,Minton and another warden where out doing there thing,they were going to check out the farm on cane creek.Minton knew the land so he went.He came across Coffee setting in a tree stand hunting turkey over bait.He told Coffee to come down and he would not.So they fussed for about 15 min and Coffee was telling Minton that it was his land and he could do what ever where ever and if he did not leave he would shot him.Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP....
In NC the Game Warden has more rights than the land owner if he thinks game laws are being broke.They can come and go on your land as the please and even in your home,Like it or Not.I also think that,that kind of power goes to there head and they think to put it nicey they are god.I have not use what so ever for the game warden.And because the is a family without a dad,granddad and a county that has lost a good man,why,because of a pill of corn..[censored] shame.Please remember this family in your prayers...
04-14-2009, 03:25 PM
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 7,182
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
If I have someone pointing a gun at me, then Im making the choice of going home to my family. I'll make the choice for the person whos pointing the gun at me. Put yourself in the wardens position. What would you do? Not one of you would let someone shoot at you or threaten your life. Just my 2 cents...
04-14-2009, 05:45 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wilmington,NC
Posts: 183
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
I spoke with a friend who goes to church with an assistant DA in Wilkes county. He tells me that it was well known that the gentleman was baiting. Now,it is certainly NOT illegal to bait(especially on your own land),however it is ILLEGAL to hunt over bait. Once the hunter climbed up in that tree over a known cornpile,well the case was made. According to what my friend was told,the GW had already radioed for back up,and then confronted the hunter and asked him to come down from the tree stand. According to statements allegedly made to sheriffs Deputies on the scene,the GW was ordered off the property,and the hunter was told he was only going to make things worse for himself. It was further alleged that threats were made against the GW by the landowner. Now,wether or not the shotgun was pointed towards the officer,they just don't know for sure.
Some have said,"why not just wait till after the hunt,and arrest the guy at his cabin or his home?"..... Well,according to the DA,that is contrary to any LE procedure. Using that theory,I guess the NCHP should just follow drunk drivers home to avoid a confrontation on the highway. Now,I don't know what the truth will ultimately be,but I sure hate that the old gentleman lost his life. I also feel for the GW. No matter what happens,this nightmare will haunt his dreams for the rest of his life......
Some have said,"why not just wait till after the hunt,and arrest the guy at his cabin or his home?"..... Well,according to the DA,that is contrary to any LE procedure. Using that theory,I guess the NCHP should just follow drunk drivers home to avoid a confrontation on the highway. Now,I don't know what the truth will ultimately be,but I sure hate that the old gentleman lost his life. I also feel for the GW. No matter what happens,this nightmare will haunt his dreams for the rest of his life......
04-14-2009, 09:11 PM
#25
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 504
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
u guys need to look at it this all the guys i know that age are stuck in their ways and most would react the same
they figure they worked their whole lives and that they paid their dues to this world and if you try to tell them different they will tell you to go to hell plan and simple and if he spilled coffee on his self on his way out he could off had an att. already so if you look at it that way they story is probably not that far fetch after all
don't take me wrong i am not siding with anyone but i know those kinda of momoents are just the ones that give officers a bad name
they figure they worked their whole lives and that they paid their dues to this world and if you try to tell them different they will tell you to go to hell plan and simple and if he spilled coffee on his self on his way out he could off had an att. already so if you look at it that way they story is probably not that far fetch after all
don't take me wrong i am not siding with anyone but i know those kinda of momoents are just the ones that give officers a bad name
04-14-2009, 09:15 PM
#26
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
ORIGINAL: firelt72
Let's feel sorry for the poor criminal- You all here should be the ones screaming for the law to be upheld, but we want to attack the warden first andtake 1 jerk in Alabama who did something wrong and make it every CO or GW....We are to uphold the law as hunters where ever we hunt and be ethical. We are to do the right thing even when no CO is lurking, We should be ticked the guy died because of posibly his own actions....If you are asked or told by and officer to do something do we argue or do it? You respect him and then after it is over you can press charges or file a complaint. You don't get shot being calm and obeying the orders....Should the guy have died over a baiting violation, no, but I'll tell you this as I said earlier You pull a gun on me and make me choose who get to go home...I am everytime.
We are the crew here that should be talking about the protection of those who put their life out there every day for us and for the creatures we hold dear...If this guy was breaking the law (as it sounds like it could be) maybe the officer got the info in a situation where he had to go alone. If he was a 12 year vet he knew what he was doing. As far as whining about the way they dress, here in Indiana they had to wear their green uniform and shiny silver/gold bagdes all the time until a few years ago. They changed because the brass made them stand out. They are out there in conditions that would make you or me be scared and due to resources they are put in positions to be alone, just as State Troopers. It is unconscionable that someone here would make the comment that there is only one side of the story...The live GW's side. Now if the facts prove he is guilty than so be it, but until then I am one his side right or wrong.
Copied from a different site- Here is what I was told by a warden ,Minton and another warden where out doing there thing,they were going to check out the farm on cane creek.Minton knew the land so he went.He came across Coffee setting in a tree stand hunting turkey over bait.He told Coffee to come down and he would not.So they fussed for about 15 min and Coffee was telling Minton that it was his land and he could do what ever where ever and if he did not leave he would shot him.Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP....
In NC the Game Warden has more rights than the land owner if he thinks game laws are being broke.They can come and go on your land as the please and even in your home,Like it or Not.I also think that,that kind of power goes to there head and they think to put it nicey they are god.I have not use what so ever for the game warden.And because the is a family without a dad,granddad and a county that has lost a good man,why,because of a pill of corn..[censored] shame.Please remember this family in your prayers...
Let's feel sorry for the poor criminal- You all here should be the ones screaming for the law to be upheld, but we want to attack the warden first andtake 1 jerk in Alabama who did something wrong and make it every CO or GW....We are to uphold the law as hunters where ever we hunt and be ethical. We are to do the right thing even when no CO is lurking, We should be ticked the guy died because of posibly his own actions....If you are asked or told by and officer to do something do we argue or do it? You respect him and then after it is over you can press charges or file a complaint. You don't get shot being calm and obeying the orders....Should the guy have died over a baiting violation, no, but I'll tell you this as I said earlier You pull a gun on me and make me choose who get to go home...I am everytime.
We are the crew here that should be talking about the protection of those who put their life out there every day for us and for the creatures we hold dear...If this guy was breaking the law (as it sounds like it could be) maybe the officer got the info in a situation where he had to go alone. If he was a 12 year vet he knew what he was doing. As far as whining about the way they dress, here in Indiana they had to wear their green uniform and shiny silver/gold bagdes all the time until a few years ago. They changed because the brass made them stand out. They are out there in conditions that would make you or me be scared and due to resources they are put in positions to be alone, just as State Troopers. It is unconscionable that someone here would make the comment that there is only one side of the story...The live GW's side. Now if the facts prove he is guilty than so be it, but until then I am one his side right or wrong.
Copied from a different site- Here is what I was told by a warden ,Minton and another warden where out doing there thing,they were going to check out the farm on cane creek.Minton knew the land so he went.He came across Coffee setting in a tree stand hunting turkey over bait.He told Coffee to come down and he would not.So they fussed for about 15 min and Coffee was telling Minton that it was his land and he could do what ever where ever and if he did not leave he would shot him.Minton ordered him down the tree and Coffee said if I come down and if you are still here I will kill you.Coffee 76 years old came down the tree by using a ROPE Ladder.Went he got to the ground,Minton had take cover and was radioing for back up and moments he was call for EMS and was doing CRP....
In NC the Game Warden has more rights than the land owner if he thinks game laws are being broke.They can come and go on your land as the please and even in your home,Like it or Not.I also think that,that kind of power goes to there head and they think to put it nicey they are god.I have not use what so ever for the game warden.And because the is a family without a dad,granddad and a county that has lost a good man,why,because of a pill of corn..[censored] shame.Please remember this family in your prayers...
c.o.'s are out there to serve and protect us and our hunting rights.if you think you have the right to hunt over bait on your own property [when it is illegal] what does that tell us?
as everyone has said,we don't know what happened for sure. i do know that telling a c.o. off for tresspasing or messing up your hunt is going to put him in defense mode and if you say the wrong thing or make a wrong move.....
your prolly gonna get shot. reminds me of a story i saw on the news....a woman called police and dared them to chase her.she said she was heavily armed and told them where she was.minutes later she was surrounded by armed officers and she pointed a bb pistol at them and she got shot 3 times for her stupidity.officers are trained to kill,not shoot to wound.
she lived to be stupid another day.
as far as the dead hunter being a good man...... a poacher is not a good anything in my opinion he wasn't shot because of a pile of corn,he was shot because of his blatant disregard for law enforcement.
there are some good people on this site but i don't see myself staying.puts a bad taste in my mouth.
04-15-2009, 04:14 AM
#28
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indy
Posts: 728
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
Dog Killer- This site and other sites are like eating chicken- You pick off the good stuff and throw out the bones. I am disappointed that there is the anti-law sound to this thread. As I have said if the CO was found to be guilty I think he should be dealt with, but until the facts are out there we don't paint with a broad brush.
I ask this are there bad officers, firefighter and teachers- Sure there are...but the majority of those folks do the right thing. If you take a cross section of any profession you will fine 3-4 per 100 that are screw ups or unethical, most do the right thing. We preach ethical behavior to the kids and to the anti-hunting establishment but when we are here and somewhat anonymous our real nature comes out....Now I am not bailing on this site; I really like it here, but some of us need to look in the mirror and say what would I do if now one was watching? I am not trying to make myself look better but my experiences are what I have; Last season I had a field full of Toms in front of me....I wasn't 100% sure if that was a field I could hunt. I tried calling them to me, but didn't get it done. I hated not getting a shot. I know know that it was a field I can hunt...I could have gone into it to hunt last years, but didn't...I know this year LOL. Point being is I'd rather miss an opportunity to take a bird/deer or whatever and have my integrity than kill a monster and know I did it wrong. Te guy that died could have stopped the whole situation if he followed the orders...even if the CO/GW was rude and rough he would be alive today PERIOD. You don't get shot following the rules the officer gives you.
I ask this are there bad officers, firefighter and teachers- Sure there are...but the majority of those folks do the right thing. If you take a cross section of any profession you will fine 3-4 per 100 that are screw ups or unethical, most do the right thing. We preach ethical behavior to the kids and to the anti-hunting establishment but when we are here and somewhat anonymous our real nature comes out....Now I am not bailing on this site; I really like it here, but some of us need to look in the mirror and say what would I do if now one was watching? I am not trying to make myself look better but my experiences are what I have; Last season I had a field full of Toms in front of me....I wasn't 100% sure if that was a field I could hunt. I tried calling them to me, but didn't get it done. I hated not getting a shot. I know know that it was a field I can hunt...I could have gone into it to hunt last years, but didn't...I know this year LOL. Point being is I'd rather miss an opportunity to take a bird/deer or whatever and have my integrity than kill a monster and know I did it wrong. Te guy that died could have stopped the whole situation if he followed the orders...even if the CO/GW was rude and rough he would be alive today PERIOD. You don't get shot following the rules the officer gives you.
04-15-2009, 06:34 AM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
You might want to check the laws. My understanding is that a GW can enter your property, but when it comes to entering your home to conduct a search they have to follow the same procedures as other enforcement officials.
In terms of how GW's act, my perspective is that it is an issue of dealing with priorities and using common sense at the same time. GW's are stretched thin, so one would think that they would concentrate on patrolling for road hunters,conducting license and safety checks on hunters entering or exiting the woods to hunt, and responding to actual complaints. Simply going on private property or even wandering around on public land just to check things out, especially on opening day of a season where everyone is in camo and carrying shotguns with highbrass loads just does not seem like a good or safe idea. In the area where Iown landand hunt I have never even heard of a GW entering private property like that. They already have their hands full dealing with the issues that I described above. Kind of a moot point since it has been repeatedly established that they can enter private property, although a recent court case in Ohio has suggested some limits to that.I just know that is pretty ironic that in hunting we constantly preach safety while in the woods, yet you can have GW's wandering around the woods under pretty unsafe conditions.
In terms of how GW's act, my perspective is that it is an issue of dealing with priorities and using common sense at the same time. GW's are stretched thin, so one would think that they would concentrate on patrolling for road hunters,conducting license and safety checks on hunters entering or exiting the woods to hunt, and responding to actual complaints. Simply going on private property or even wandering around on public land just to check things out, especially on opening day of a season where everyone is in camo and carrying shotguns with highbrass loads just does not seem like a good or safe idea. In the area where Iown landand hunt I have never even heard of a GW entering private property like that. They already have their hands full dealing with the issues that I described above. Kind of a moot point since it has been repeatedly established that they can enter private property, although a recent court case in Ohio has suggested some limits to that.I just know that is pretty ironic that in hunting we constantly preach safety while in the woods, yet you can have GW's wandering around the woods under pretty unsafe conditions.
04-15-2009, 11:06 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
RE: 76 yr old turkey hunter killed by game warden
and take 1 jerk in Alabama who did something wrong and make it every CO or GW....
The case I mentioned about the guy who got framed would have probably blown up into a story that may have been picked up by the national media if the poor guy that got framed (who I knew well)hadn't beenkilled in a car accident after he got out. The state shuffled the GW to another area for fear he would encounter one of the guys family members and violence would ensue.
The two game wardens that were in this area before the framer had so many complaints lodged against them for night hunting on peoples land that the state eventually shuffled them off to another area as well. (See a pattern here? Much like the catholic church used to do with molesting priests all the state of Alabama does with bad GWs is to transfer themonto otherunknowing people)
One of the last GWs that we had here got drunk at a party one night and ran his hand down the back of a married womans pants and groped her bare @$$. The womans husband promptly stomped the chit of the off duty GW. Two weeks later the GW found the guys truck and boat trailer parked at a public boat ramp, and while the guy was gone in the boat running his trotlines, he tossed a dead turkey into the back of the guys truck. When the guy returned from running his lines the GW wrote him up for hunting turkeys out of season. And the guy would have been screwed too if he hadn't had some friends in high places that got it thrown out. I'm not saying that kind of activity is kosher either but in this case another wrong actually did make things right.
Then there is one that I actually witnessed. About 20 years ago after a heavy downpour some friends and myself were pulled over beside the road talking to another car load of friends alongside a drainage ditch swollen with rain water run off. Normally it was bone dry. One of my friends was showing another guy in the other car a new rod and reel he had just purchased. The guy stepped to the ditch and cast it one time to check it out. The local GW was passing by; pulled over; and wrote the guy a ticket for fishing without a license. Because he said that the drainage ditch emptied into a small branch about a 1/4 mile down the road and was therefore considered a part of it. No, I'm not lying or exaggerating. That happened just as described and is representative of the average GW we have had in this area my whole life.
I won't bore you with further stories (But I could).Suffice it to say that based on my own life experiences with GWs I'm not inclined to take their word for chit especially where a shooting is involved. Their profession for some reason seems to have about 6 times as many bad apples in the barrel than any other branch of law enforcement. Perhaps it is the enormous amount of power they are alloted in comparrison toregular police and the fact that they typically work alone in places where the only witness to their actions is the accused. Absolute power corrupts absolutely you know.