RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Well I have shot probably 10 or so different chokes and about that many different kinds of ammo through my newest turkey gun when I first bought it.. Several different Hevi Shot, some Winchesters, couple Federal and some Nitros and I'm sure a couple others... In short the Hevi Shot and Nitro out-shot everything else from my gun. The jellyhead choke seemed to work the best as well. Now the only Hevi Shot that shot excellent was the 12ga, 3.5in. 2-1/4oz #6's.. The Nitros were close to the same, I don't remember the figures though as I did this last year. But cost, performance and availiability I went with the Hevi-13 shotgun shells for my turkey loads. Although I have found that availiability this year is not all that great on this particular shell..

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

I'm a Nitro believer and I and my buddy have used Rays Nitros for several years now. There pricey for sure, but so is taking the family to dinner and a movie, and you know how long both of those last.There's no factory load that compares. I placed an order for 25, 20 gauge 3 inch straight 7's just over 2 weeks ago and received them yesterday. Waiting is a small inconvenience for such a great turkey load, and whenever I need to reorder, it will be from Ray and Sandy. TopNotch people with a great product.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Is everyone so in love with Nitro shells just to get all those #7 Hevi's??

Of course they're going to pattern better than a full load of straight 6's so I wonder why Environmetal hasn't caught on yet and brought out their own Hevi13 #7 offering to compete.
Seems they lose a big audience by not offering their own version.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

If you guys can't hit a turkey at 35-40 yards with a 12
Ga. 3 1/2" you shouldn't be in the woods.

Everyone agrees that anything over 50 yards is not a good shot to take.

So what is the big deal?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

At 35-40 yards I do not even need to use a 12ga 3.5"....heck I can do it with a 20ga, that is not the point. I want to maximize my pattern, and I want to be able to shoot as far as possible.
There are quite a few people out there who just want to have the best possible pattern irregardless of how far they shoot.
Don't try to push your limitations on others.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Not trying to be ugly here just making some honest observations and would love for some nitro users to respond. First, of course Nitro shells are gonna pattern well. Even their 4x5x7 duplex loads are about 77% number 7 shot. That's a helluva lot more pellets than even a load of 6's. I can get more pellets on target by dropping down to a smaller shot sizewith anybrand but the trade off is the down range energy they deliver. NowI know that Nitro uses heavier than lead shot but still a number 7 pellet is about the size of a gnat turd. Also, Nitro loads their own shells but they do not make the shot that goes in them. They use Heavy 13 purchased from Environmetal. The people at Environmetal do not recommend shooting at turkeys beyond 40 yards with their number 6 shot! That being the case I'm going to have to assume that their range recommendation doesn't increase with a drop down to number 7 shot. If these things aren't consistently lethal at 50 or more yards then I honestly cannot see paying the outrageous price for them. Holes in paper at 50 yards tells you nothing about whether or not a pellet has retained neck snapping power at that distance. Yes I have seen the impressive patterns at 40 yards but most people can obtain a lethal pattern at 40 yards with a 10 dollar box of shells from Wal-Mart. 5 pellets in the kill zone at 40 yards = dead turkey. 10 pellets in the kill zone still only = dead turkey. 20 pellets in the kill zone? Yep that's right still only = dead turkey. See a pattern developing here?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Sorry but not buying the (#7 hevi shot) 62 and 64 yards BS!!!!

I've learned one thing in my 44 years of life... People are FULL of BS!!!!

Dude sell that somewere else... I'm all stocked up

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Ok so I retract my statement...I guess you are calling myself and the other guy a liar.

How about this....go to oldgobbler.com, and nwtf.com, and ask people over there how far they have shot turkeys with #7 hevi, and then you can even ask how far you can shoot turkeys with #8, and #9 heavier than lead loads. I'm sure they will be more than happy to provide you with all of the data you need. After you have done that I recommend you go out and do penetration tests on #7, #8 and #9 heavier than lead loads and compare the data.

Once you have done that you can come back on here and let us know how your mind was enlightened, and apologize for calling people liars and telling them they are full of BS. Until then I suggest you refrain from telling people they are full of BS until you have the facts.

Having said that I do not expect you to do any of those things. That is fine with me...stay stuck in your old lead mindset while myself and others continue to kill turkeys farther than you think is possible. Just dont expect me to continue this conversation any longer until you have checked all of your facts.

Happy hunting.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Nice post Huricane. I read the NWTF board and I am familiar with those penetration tests. Problem is, Mr Longbeard isn't interested in data, facts, or anyone else's opinion or experience. Only his opinion has merit.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Were do you get these nitros? Is there a link?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

I am still curious about why everyone LOVES Nitros? Is it simply because of the #7 Hevi in them?

It just boggles my mind that people are paying the kind of money per shell for them and Environmetal could just make up some factory ones of their own. They'd probably do the same exact thing and throw those high pellet count patterns too.
I wonder why they wouldn't jump on that bandwagon?

Let me ask this........how many people would jump ship tomorrow from Nitro shells if there was a Hevi-13 , 3", 2oz, #7 and a 3.5", 2.25oz #7 or even a #5-6-7 Duplex style load to pick from at $20-25 a box?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Matt

I wouldjump on the Hevi-13 ship if,and only if, it beat the pattern shown below of the Nitro loadthat I currently shoot. I cut corners with some of my stuff but not my ammo, the part that actually kills the turkey. I really don't care what it costs, I simply want the best there is. I only plan to shoot four shells this year, so what's the big deal?Some guys who complain about the cost of ammo probably spend more money onbeereach week than I will spend on Nitrosall year.:)

I've shot it all and the Nitro Triplex2.25 oz of 4X5X7 beat everything else by a mile out of my gun/choke combo. Both on paper and on turkeys. That's why I "LOVE" Nitros. Because it's the best there is. Again, I tested everything and nothing else was close.

I am very much interested in trying the Hevishot 3.5", 2.25 oz offering -trouble is I can't find any. Didn't see any this year at the NWTF convention and none of the stores I frequent has it stocked in anything but #4 shot. I see it listed on the Hevishot webpage but I have yet to find it in #6 shot on any dealers shelves.

Now if you would be kindenough to send me a 5 pack of #6sI'll let you know how they pattern and perform in the field.

Mouthcaller

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

I can tell you that I would jump off the Nitro train if EnvironMetal started making straight #7's.....heck I still think that if Federal would get rid of their Flitecontrol wad and replace it with a good one they would give Nitro a run for their money!


I'm sorry I did not see this sooner.
Nitro does not use Hevi-13 they use EnvironMetal's standard heavier than lead pellets (12gcc). Nitro's loads are also going approx 200-250fps faster.
As a side note EnvironMetal also states that they have slower speeds because their loads pattern better going slower. I have a friend who duplicated their loads for me (I don't reload) and pushed them all the way up to 1300fps and actually increased pattern performance........I only bring this up to say take what they saw with a grain of salt.
#7 heavier than lead will break bones at 70 yards, so if you have the pattern you have the killing power.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Just wondering, while we're on the subject. A #7 Hevi-Shot pellet equals WHAT when it comes to lead? A #6, # 5?? This isnt sarcastic, im seriouslly wondering. Thanks guys.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Again,I am honestly not trying to be ugly, BUT, the problem I have believing claims like this is that Heavy 13 is only about 10% denser than lead. (If that) The 12gcc stuff is only about 6 or 7% denser than lead. And you are telling me that a small increase in pellet density like that is making these tiny pellets remain lethal 30 or 35 yards farther than lead of the same size? I just don't believe it.

And if number 7 denser than lead is that deadly to 70 yards they why in the heck are any of these ammo companies even wasting time with denser than lead pellets in 4's, 5's or 6's? Why try to get that bigger stuff to pattern when you can pack waaaaay more no 7 pellets in the same sized shell. If you are right about the lethal range of these heavy number 7's and I'm wrong then the people at Heavy 13, Federal, WinchesterandRemington are the biggest idiots God ever let draw breathe for not jumpingonto this bandwagon.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

WELL THATS NOT A BAD GROUP FOR 100 YARDS.;)

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

I wanna see another shell match that pattern. I dont think its going to happen.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

A "pattern" itself is not going to show you the answer to everything you need in a turkey load. This is only half the story. Obviously, being that it is shot size number 7, you will see more pellets in the "kill zone" when compared to a 6 or 5 shot.But when you decrease the size of the pellets(going from a 6 shot to 7 shot) you also lose a ton ofenergy out of each pellet. Because of the lawof inertia, things thathave less masswillbe slowed down much quickerwhen they hit something like the turkey or even just passing through the air on the way to its destination. Thus, the smaller the shot size (like #7's) the less downrange kintetic energy you will have. So by the time those pellets have flown 60 yards it may make one hell of a nice pattern to look at, butthe pellets may not have enough energy left to consistently and appropriately kill a turkey.

Therefor, by this law, it seems that the smaller you go on shot size, the less downrange power you will have. So a shot size #4 may have enough energy to kill a turkey at 65 yards but not a good enough pattern to. On the other hand, a #7 shot may not have sufficient downrange energy to killa turkey at 65 yards, but has a good enough pattern to.

Thats why it is important to understand you need to gettwo things from your gun/choke/ammo combination; A tight consistent patterns, and enough downrange energy. Finding the appropriate combination to maximize both of these will prove beneficial to your hunting success.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

I never said that. But i said id like to see a pattern thats better than that.

I dont know about everyone else, but im still into getting turkeys within 40 yards. Changing shells doesnt have anything to do with yardage TO ME. Thats not why i plan on getting Nitro's. But i do know that within 40 yards, #7 Hevi-Shot will easily take a turkey.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

hevi 13 out of my mossberg 835 and factory x-factor ported choke
average of 268 in a 10" circle at 30 yards
at 50yards average count of 108
108 at fifty yards come on i like my odds very well since it only takes 1

by the way hevi 13 3 1/2" 2 1/4 oz #6

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Well HoosierHunter, i just might have to try those if i cant get Nitros. I plan on going with Nitro but my printer doesnt seem to want to work to print off an order form. And from what it sounds like is that if i dont order them NOW i might not get them by turkey season, let alone in time to pattern them.

Penetration tests
 

I've spent some time over on the NWTF boards, particularily the Shotgun and Shotgunning board. I consider that board to be the best source of objective information concerning shotguns, chokes,and loads for turkey hunting. Steve Canovan posts there under the name Night Hawk. Super nice guy anda multiple time NWTF national still target shooting champion. He is one ofthe many guysover there who are very serious about loads, chokes, patterning, andpractical translation toturkey hunting.

I provide a like below toa recent patterning testusing wet phone books.Hevishot 7s out penetrates lead 6sdespite a 200 fps advange for the lead 6 load

http://www.nwtf.org/message_board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=128698#Post 128698


Interesting test shooting a store-bought turkey with lead 5s vs HS 5s.

http://www.nwtf.org/message_board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=128722#Post 128722

RE: Penetration tests
 

That says it all. Nice!

RE: Penetration tests
 

Obviously, a HS load compared to any other lead shot of the same size will outperform the lead, because of the difference in density, which also translates into more inertia, simply meaning that it is harder to stop. My question is, does #7 HS outperform a #5 lead shot for long distances..? Because that is what many people are claiming, and it MAY be true. But it also may not be. My reasoning is that the #7 will pattern better but will they still have enough energy to perform as well as the #5's would? The HS probably makes up for the fact that the #7s would be smaller BB's but even then, if it does perform the same, or even a bit better, is that small gain worth an extra $5 per shot?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

My poor rating was due to MANY unanswered phone calls and e-mails. So yes, my opinion of Nitro Companyis from personal experience. I didn't have the chance to use or purchase any of their ammunition because due to theirpoorcustomer service I had many unanswered questions. Just as everyone likes to show the great patterns they get from these loads, which I must say are amazing, I also believe a companies shortfalls should also be put out there for everyone to see. As for the heresay, I have heard numerous complaints similiar to mine. But my orginal post was regarding my own personnal experience, not that of others as you wrongly assummed.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Here's todays resultsfrom Hevi13, 3", 2oz., #6 fired just a couple of hours ago.

This one was fired from 30 yards from an T/C Encore and was considerably better than the Remington and 2 different Winchester loads I tried today.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Cornfed - What kind of targets are those? Those look nice and easy to "read".

Are all Hevi 13's that color no matter what size?

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Well your right to a point.....Hevi shot is about 7.08% more dense than pure lead, 9.05% more dense than copper coated lead, and 11.21% more dense than lead alloy shot. Which according to my calculations makes #7 hevi shot approximately equivalent to #5.5 lead. Still you cannot make a head to head comparison because 1. Most people dont shoot pure lead, and 2. when you hit your target with the #7 hevi you are getting approximately 2-3 times more pellets in the central nervous system.

I honestly do not know why more companies don't make shells in #7 hevi. The only two that I know of are Federal which about 31.34% more dense than pure lead, 33.75% more dense than copper plated lead, and 36.40% more dense than lead alloy shot, and Nitro which uses hevi 12gcc. The only two reasons I can think of is 1. Not everyone takes long shots, and they like to think that bigger is better so they shoot a bigger pellet, and 2. They are stuck in the old lead mind set that you need #4's to kill turkeys.......like I said thats the only thing that I can think of.

In all actuality with todays loads lead #6's is all you need out to 50 yards. The problem that you run into is pattern density....the pattern starts to fall apart around 35-40 yards (generally), and it is difficult to get 80-100 pellets in a 10" circle at 50 yards to make sure you can even get a reliable kill shot. It is even more difficult when you stretch the range farther and reduce your pellet count by going to #5's or #4's.

If you still don't believe (which is fine, not trying to be mean) I suggest you talk to some more knowledgeable than me, and then do some penetration tests. Start with lead #6's, and work your way to heavier than lead #9's. Seriously, some of this stuff will suprise you, especially the #9 TSS. That stuff is wicked!


Kdsberman; I believe his target is a Shoot N See or something equivalent, and not all Hevi-13 shells are that color. The better patterning Hevi-13 loads seem to be the 3.5" 2.25oz #6's, and the 3" 2oz #6's.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

12" Caldwell Orange Peel targets are the ones pictured. You just can't beat these Shoot-n-see targets!

Redhead/Bass Pro Shops sell an even cooler lookin' target with a photo-realistic turkey. Heres the link

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_91445____SearchResults

Concerning the Hevi-hot hull color. The older Hevi-13 rounds used to have a green hull, now all the ones I shoot have a brown hull.

Good luck and good shootin'

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Hurricanespg - you bring a good point. But for me, ill be shooting the Nitros 4x5x7 hevi-shot and plan on taking UP TO 40 yard shots. If i HAVE to ill go a little further, but i still plan on taking the closer shots. So i know i have a wonderful pattern flying out of my gun and feel extremely confident that it will be lethal within that range. The question of #7's penetrating past that yardage has an answer beyond anything i know. But i do know that within 40 yards its a dead turkey.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Thanks for the conversation. I will try to be open minded about the stuff and maybe conduct a test or two in the coming off season.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

T

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Hurrianespg,
I dont consider this is a custom load, it is what they list on there web site to work in my gun. I would consider it a custom load if I would have told MR. Ray what to load in the shells in fact he could have built my catalog #H517 shells last summer (in the off season) and I dont think they would have shoot any different.
Still no sign of my shells from Nitro will be 4 weeks this Monday what a JOKE just poor bussiness in my opinion.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Its the shell that kills the bird, not the business.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Call me old fashioned too, but just about any decent 12ga turkey load and shotgun/choke comboshould be able to anchor a gobbler up to 40yds. The best load is theone that you are confident with and patterns well from your gun at the maximum range you choose to shoot. If you want to to take 50,60,70 yard shots have at it..at those ranges I would prefer a rifle and take take a head/neck shot. Personally, my limit is 40 yards, I use a Nova with a .670 Pure Gold tube, Leupold 1-4x and a mix of 3 1/2" shells. I have enough Hevi-Shot Remingtons, Federal and Winchester Extended Ranges to last 4 lifetimes.

I shot this with a Federal 2oz #6 with flight control wad at the distance of 40 yards on Friday the 20thjust to check the POI as I havent used it since last spring. Saturday the 21st, was the opening here and this bird dropped about 2 hours into the season without even a twitch at 37 yards using the same load. Our season runs into May and I have 3 tags left so I will have more chances to try different loads. It's certainly not the best pattern but it works for me at my limitations.

RE: Who do you think makes the best turkey loads?
 

Again, all of Nitro's loads are custom loads....they are all made once you order them. I'm sorry you have not gotten your order...maybe you can call and talk to Ray or Sandy and see what is going on?


Very well said!