Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Why do these guys make turkey hunting sound like a black at ? I went to a seminar and when I left I don't know how I ever killed one. Maybe I don'T hunt enough. I've killed 1-2 turkeys every Spring for 45 yrs all I use is a single call,my single shot 12,full choke and a cammo shirt and hat.
If I took all the stuff they had for sale I would need a burro to carry it. No wonder a guy starting out is so confused. Heck I even caught a turkey once with my bare hands, he was stuck in a woven wire fence after I scared him and he took off running. Still got the scars to prove it.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Thats an easy one.

You gotta keep in mind that a Pro Staffer is little short of a field experienced salesman. I'm living proof that you don't have to be a super expert hunter to be a pro staffer. You do need to know what you are talking about of course, but mostly you need to be friendly, approachable, tactful, and somewhat business minded.

As a customer, or a member of the audience at a turkey seminar (I'm on stage more than in the audience these days), I'd say just keep an open mind. You can't really expect a semiar to be like a church sermon... full of lessons and answers. What you should look for is just a little tip, or small trick that may work here or there.

I'll tell you Hard Luck... there are LOTS of ways to kill turkeys. Most seminars cover topics and products that are most likely to appeal to the hunters in the target market. Right now, that is relatively young hunters (20-35 years old) with a bit of disposable income that are just getting into turkey hunting, or have been turkey hunting 5 springs or fewer. Most of these newer hunters are looking for ways to get ahead. They don't have a lot of patience. They like to "run and gun". They think they have to find a hot bird in order to be successful. They look at folks on TV and how they start out in the morning with a bird roaring from the roost, they set up some $100 decoys... and here they all come. Most of us know... it doesn't work that way.

You, like myself, probably learned turkey hunting from actually turkey hunting. And we will probably agree that you can kill the snot out of turkeys if you know the property, and understand turkeys...and you can do it with suprisingly little besides camoflauge, a comfortable seat, a simple call, and a pocketful of patience. Most people now would rather learn it on TV, on the net, or at a seminar. There is nothing wrong with seminars, they can be full of great advice and useful tips... you just have to take them for what they are... opinionated, experience based knowledge, with an underlying sales pitch.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

These experts are all employed by some manufacture that wants every hunter to BUY, BUY ,BUY their products.Notice how you never see any of these EXPERTS hunting highly pressured turkeys on some game lands in PA,or any other public over hunted tract of land, on there show.Most of them are pushing some outfitter that also wants to SELL, SELL,SELL.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

SIMPLE TO ME HARD LUCK -
YOU HAVE DEVELOPED EXCELLENT WOODSMANSHIP SKILLS - YOU KNOW YOUR QUARRY

I forone ('bet' <- am taking this word out) KNOWNI could learn a great deal from you!

JW

Ps came back to edit!

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Yeah a lot of these seminars are interesting, but some things they say sound like you have to be at a certain rank to execute these "tactics". Like SwampCollie said, on TV they always show setting up near roosted birds, setting up decoys, a little calling and get ready to shoot. That definetly doesnt work every time.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

I don't go to them, they all preach the same thing, same products... different names.... all that crap.
I use the same stuff every year, seminars are to sell stuff to the rich guys who just hunt to prove something, most of the time they dont even eat the game.
I agree with you.... Simple..
I take out very little.....

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Now come on, not all of us hunt at Outfitters, mater of fact I have only hunted at one Outfitters land and I did score the same as the other 16 years of hunting management lands and crown lands.

Seminars are all done differently. Not every prostaff out there, does them the same, if you want to see something different you need to sit in one of mine. I do however have to talk about the companies that support me and that is only fair, as part of basket, but again these companies help with the success I have in the woods. I do also bring up items that are a benefit to me in the woods and if itworks for me and could be a great tool for you too, I tell you about it and receive nothing from them, I paid for it in the first place.

I also not only tell you about a product that I may stand behind, I show you how to use it too. Seminars are not given toa Prostaffer to do for a company; they are formed from the staffer and presented by the staffer that does them. This makes everyone different and everyone you could possibly learn from as well.

Hunters that all ready know most of everything will not learn a lot, but Hunters that want to pick up a tip and listen for that something different will collect what he showed up for.

As far as I'm concerned Seminars are one of the best learning tools out there and I don't care how many birds you have killed or how long you have hunted, you will hear something from mine that you have not heard of before I hold nothing back on the stage.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Adrian, I meant to say tthat most experts on the outdoor channel.LOL

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

lol...that is funny, because isn't that why most are on this site, to learn about hunting, I think besides going outdoors and learning hands on, learning from other people is the best way to learn, expetually on the net, I don't need to go to seminars, because I have people like you to teach me, and you won't sell me some $100 decoy, so thanks!:D

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Hell most of you guy arent

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Well there are seminars designed more so to sell and then there are seminars there to help teach. That is what I meant by my comment to Hard Luck - he has 45 yrs of experience. I know he could teach me something!

Now that being said - I have bought CDs from those Teachers - Have not bought CDs of those so called Kill videos - never have as I can see parts of em on OLN.
But from what I call teachers I'll mention a few - one big one is Lovett Williams - another just commented here and that is Adrian Hare. I did purcase his CD and did pick up a tip or two and it gave me many others to ponder. That is what I look for.

The rest if they are on an the ole Outdoor TV program - well I don't need those types videosI call watch my kill type videos. I don't buy them never have. I can do that myself. Tho I do watch em free on TV - not for the kill aspect - not for the banter - but to hearReal turkey voices and MORE SO to see live footage and concentrate deeply on the mannerisms, body movements, etc of any real turkey they show on that tape! You can learn a lot right there. There has been some that with the sound off - I tell myself - that bird is nervous.

Oh and Adrian's Video was the first Video I ever bought. The others are Williams CDs of real turkey voices and calls and the Monarchs of a spring morning - a NWTF real turkey voice cd - no narration - just loads of natural spring turkey chatter. \


JW

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Like a moth to the flame.... everytime....

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

JW, thanks for the kind words,

It is funny when it comes to Learning skills and how one wants to take it. I don't consider myself a Pro but rather a person that has spent a large amount of time in the turkey woods all over North America that I learned from the real thing to the point I start to see things over and over.

Last spring season I spent over 70 days in the field between Florida and Ontario and after one puts that amount of time in, I have opinions on some things that happen.

I know of some others out there, that have the same time or even more then I and these guys know their stuff, but not evey Pro Staffer will take a bird everyday, it is not going to happen no matter how much you know and How many birds you have under your belt. We all enjoy the sport because that wize ol Gobbler out thought us.

I enjoy sitting here reading the posts from all of you as I can feel myself on the front lines of most stories, that gets me excited for the spring and I do learn the odd thing from you too;)

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

hehe - thanks AH! Now that is a real compliment.

I am 1st to admit not I AMNOT EVEN close to an expert! Not a Rookie in my adeled mind certainly not an expert. Never will be! I have missed, have goofed, have made many mistakes and will do more! Have hunted a few years not as many as others here.

But I try not make the same mistake, goof, stoopid move, over again.....I try to analize - find a solution - so I don't repeat.

ANDI try sharethru this media, my experiences, to maybe help you if ya run into a similar situation......ain't gospel - but food for thought.

JW

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

About 25 years ago I attended a weekend seminar on bass fishing...There were several different classes that we attended and one of these was on how to determine what depth you should start fishing...The instructor went through checking oxygen at different levels, checking temperature, checking ph at different levels and using a ColorSelector, of course all of these were for sale...Toward the end, I asked him if he used a depth finder, he said "Of course"...I then asked what would be wrong with cruising around with the depth finder, marking fish and then start fishing at the level that you marked most of the fish at....You could have heard a pin drop...:D

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

I learned every thing I know about turkeys from my own experiences and just being in the woods alot around these birds. I believe it will make it harder on you if you try and take someones advice about hunting if you realy dont konw that much about what you are doing. Its like someone trying to explain to you how to drive a stick for the first time and you go out and cant figure out what you are doing wrong. Eventually after while you start to figure it out and may even come up with your own little tricks. I have talked and listened to guys who know a great deal about turkey hunting and even though alot of the things they do are similiar, each person has their own technique or style of hunting.

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Most pro-staffers I have spoke with speak highly of the wise old veteran turkey hunter who hunts with one call and his jeans. Why does the wise old turkey hunter bash the pro-staffer?

Knowing a couple of these seminar speaking, pro-staff, product pushin' fellas I can say they are first and foremost just good ole turkey hunters who have the addiction same as you and I. When hunting with them brand names NEVER come up. The only thing that comes up is a turkeys head occasionally.

I think they do it for the pretty Pro-Staffer shirts. Right AJH ?;):D:D[8D]

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Ah, the business world! Reminds me of a comic strip cartoon I once saw in In Fisherman magazine. Imagine if you will a giant bass sitting inside of an old tire, the tire surrounded with a variety of lures, hung up around the tire like trophy's.The wily old bass is looking very interested in a new lure he sees passing in front of him.....

They want to sell you more stuff!

And I'm the fool that's buying it!

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Basically its all about the money. They develop more things everyday. Whats next GPS on the wildlife. They are trying to make things to easy to make money. The sad part is quite a few by their products to make it easier on them. Im from the old school. I rely on my scouting. I know where the birds I hunt are. Im constantly studying the wild turkey. As a matter of fact I have 3 pet turkeys here. They are easterns and they have taught me way more than any seminar or hunting video. Dont get me wrong I love watching the hunting videos. Ive learned more from older verteran hunters and my own turkeys, than I have from watching videos... Just my thoughts...

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Thats exactly my point.... kind of.....

The way I conduct my seminars is just like I was talking to you one on one. I'm not selling anything... I don't care if you buy something or not.

I did a seminar today on how to kill turkeys with $50. $10 for shells, $10 for cushion, $20 for box call/slate call, $10 for gloves and facemask. As far as I'm concerned as long as you own a shotgun and camo shirt and earth-tone pants... you don't NEED anything else (toilet paper is a nice luxury though). The point of that talk, was just to get deer hunters to try out turkey hunting...the license is combined in VA.... the thought process of course is that once they try it, they are hooked... you cannot deny the underlying motivation of any seminar is to generate either sales or at least foot traffic (which is tied to sales directly). But everything is....

Take this website for example... you think it runs itself? They sell advertising to generate funds.... and they do that by having a lot of hits on the internet so they can show their potential customers that their ad will be exposed to several million viewers. Everytime you log-in to hunting.net... Justin Zarr's cash register rings ... or at least it used to... I know the site was sold.. I don't know the specifics.... but the point here is that money makes the industry go around. If it wasn't for license dollars, and taxes claimed on sales of goods, hunting would have vanished decades ago.


I have always maintained that an educated customer is a customer that will keep coming back. I frequently tell folks outright that a product is just snake oil, if it is uneccessary for what they want it for. People remember that. There is nothing better you can do customer service wise than save someone money just for the sake of doing it. At the same time, the second best thing you can do, is show them ALL of the options that are avavilable to them......Thats the point of seminars. Someone may not even know that turkey hunting was an option for them. Oh.... thats what those three tags on the other half of my license are....

Do I think you should go to a seminar... hell yes I do.... you might learn something. Just because it might seem like a sales pitch doesn't mean you can't learn something from it. Or heck, maybe you'll strike up a conversation with someone in the audience and learn something that way. I don't structure my seminars around sales... I structure them around education. My reward is a picture of someone I met with a bird, and them telling me that a tip I gave them worked just like a charm, and that because I told them how to go about patterning their gun, the bird went down like he'd been electrocuted.... and that they can't wait til next Saturday to go at 'em again.

If someone asks me about what call I use... and I sell them a $70 Woodhaven... then thats good for Mike Pentecost.... and if he decides to ever HAVE a pro-staff... they are a company I'd glady put my name next to. Ironically, the company I was a prostaffer for, I decided to dis-align myself with due to some rather shady business dealings and in what was my opinion some alliences that I saw were not good for the sport of hunting or its image. I'm more of a freelance writer now than I was when I got onboard with them, and I am requested for seminars locally because I have a good reputation, can relate to people and have a lot of experience. Mr. Longbeard, on the other hand, doesn't do that so well it seems. So he decides to throw stones at people he has never met before... just an example of what it takes and what is considered undesireable. You'll get folks like this in the audience... people who think that folks that bother to take the time to help others learn are just show boating for someone, or don't really know anything. And thats fine, they can think what they want... the cream always rises... and if you do know your game and have any amount of candor.... you'll have their attention pretty quick. ;)

RE: Experts turkey hunting ?
 

Everyone has to start some where. 35+ years ago I bought a Tape and a Call from a Sportingood Store of Leroy Bramgarnder. He later became a MO Rep. I think. I loved that Tape. I coppied every call he made. Purrr, Gobble, Kelp, Cakkle, Kee Kee Run, Assembly Call. It was full of infomation. He was before Ray Eye, I competed against Ray in a calling Contest at Herman MO, Stolts was there, The Drew Boys were just pooping in their Diapers. The Mo. Consveration Dept. had a Judge named Ralph Duran check him out on the WWW an Awsome called with only his mouth.

My point being is I would not take a $1000 Dollars for all I learned from that Tape. I am sure the Pro Staffers here. Teach that same info to all who will listen. I buy New Calls all the time. I love buying a new Toy. I bought a pack of HS Strut they are Yellow calls Don't waste your money. One of the calls was Smooth and worked well the rest were junk for me! I love Quaker Boy! Very few bad one's, I don't like the Handle type Calls. I would not have one up my Rear if I had Room for a Freight Train! I got a couple Slate Calls Old Yellar, Freak, and I bought several and give them away.

If these Two Pro Staffers were close I would go. I would learn something and Probably Buy something.

If nothing else, my hat is off to them for doing something they Love!

Turkey Fife