Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
04-28-2006, 09:44 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
congrats!! nice bird....wether its him or not....hes a good bird....i also expected a bird like you described to be older....but could just been one tough smart bird....thats what im guessing...the whoopbutt i hunted last year ALWAYS roosted with hens....even though 1 had a nest....i wish i knew how old he was....i know he wasnt a jake.....maybe ill get him this year.....heard of a monster on the farm.....might be him...but i dont feel like going through such a stressful season getting hooked on hunting him....i might hunt the AREA..and work other birds as well....but i dont think ill devote my season to him lol.....
04-28-2006, 10:34 AM
#12
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
RE: Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
[align=left]Spur Lengths -- How to Age Your Gobbler
-- by Rob Ramsdale --
Spur length is generally considered to be the most reliable characteristic in determining the age of a gobbler. Spurs will still show some wear differences due to the habitat or geographical area a turkey is found but generally they keep getting longer and sharper as the turkey ages. There are also differences in spur length between the different sub-species.
Osceola's usually have the longest spurs on average of the five American sub-species due mostly to their environment. They generally live in swamps and areas with soft dirt and few rocks so they do not wear off the spur tips. Contrary to this, the western subspecies, like the Merriam's, often live in very rocky, or mountainous areas which usually means even very old birds will have spurs that have been worn off to less than 1 inch long.
The photo below shows the typical spur characteristics of some different aged gobblers.
Jakes (1 yr olds) have spurs which are usually 1/2" or less and are generally very rounded. During the spring season, jakes will range from having no more than a bump for a spur to a better defined 1/2" long spur like the one shown in the photo.
The 2-yr old gobbler has longer spurs (1/2" to 1") which are generally still straight and still very blunt on the ends.
3-yr. olds and older birds have the longest, sharpest spurs and they will also have some curve to them.
Again, spurs tend to get longer and sharper as the gobbler ages but there have been proven cases of some very old birds which were tagged and harvested 7 to 8 years later that still had spurs of only 1 inch in length.
There are a variety of differing opinions on spur length in relation to a gobbler's age so I'll present several theories here along with some research stats.
________________________________________
One very interesting study, "Indexes for Aging Eastern Turkeys" by R. Kelly (1975) focused entirely on aging gobblers in Missouri. This paper shows how spur length, beard length and body weight are associated with known age Eastern gobblers.
To begin the study, a group of 50 known age gobblers were trapped as sub-adults, and fourteen "minimum known-age" gobblers were trapped as adults. The gobblers were banded and released in various locations and then were harvested in 20 different Missouri counties from 1962 to 1974. Twenty-five sub-adult birds were randomly selected from the 1973 harvest data in two counties.
Data from the harvested birds was collected and compiled, giving the following table.
Age of Birds # Birds Avg. Spur Avg Beard Avg WT
(Years) Sampled Length (in.) Length(in.) (lb)
1 25 .26 4.44 15.5
2 27 .87 9.47 21.1
3 11 1.01 9.46 21.9
4 7 1.08 9.00 22.5
5 2 1.16 10.93 23.8
7 2 1.38 10.83 23.3
9 1 1.38 10.43 20.0
"5"** 19 1.18 11.09 22.7
** - This group of gobblers had a minimum known-age of 5 years.
Length of Spurs and Beards and Body Weights of Gobblers in Known Age Classes
Source - R. Kelly - "Indexes for Aging Eastern Turkeys" (1975)
Third National Wild Turkey Symposium, p. 207
________________________________________
Spur Curvature Sharpness Age
Length
0" to 1/2" Straight Rounded 1 year or a jake
1/2" to 7/8" StraightBlunt 1 1/2 years (fall)[/align][align=left]
2 years (spring)
1' to 1 1/2" Slight Curve Pointed 2 to 3 years
Over 1 1/2" Curved Sharp over 4 years
Estimating Gobbler Age by Spur Characteristics
Source - Williams - "After the Hunt " (1996)
Note: These measurements are based on Florida (Osceola) birds which generally have longer spurs than Easterns, Rios etc.
________________________________________
Spur Length Age
0" to 1/2" 1 year or a jake
1/2" to 7/8" 2 years
7/8' to 1" 3 years
1" and above 4 plus years
Source - Keck - "Talk'n Turkey"
Turkey Call Magazine May/June 2001 p. 104[/align]
-- by Rob Ramsdale --
Spur length is generally considered to be the most reliable characteristic in determining the age of a gobbler. Spurs will still show some wear differences due to the habitat or geographical area a turkey is found but generally they keep getting longer and sharper as the turkey ages. There are also differences in spur length between the different sub-species.
Osceola's usually have the longest spurs on average of the five American sub-species due mostly to their environment. They generally live in swamps and areas with soft dirt and few rocks so they do not wear off the spur tips. Contrary to this, the western subspecies, like the Merriam's, often live in very rocky, or mountainous areas which usually means even very old birds will have spurs that have been worn off to less than 1 inch long.
The photo below shows the typical spur characteristics of some different aged gobblers.
Jakes (1 yr olds) have spurs which are usually 1/2" or less and are generally very rounded. During the spring season, jakes will range from having no more than a bump for a spur to a better defined 1/2" long spur like the one shown in the photo.
The 2-yr old gobbler has longer spurs (1/2" to 1") which are generally still straight and still very blunt on the ends.
3-yr. olds and older birds have the longest, sharpest spurs and they will also have some curve to them.
Again, spurs tend to get longer and sharper as the gobbler ages but there have been proven cases of some very old birds which were tagged and harvested 7 to 8 years later that still had spurs of only 1 inch in length.
There are a variety of differing opinions on spur length in relation to a gobbler's age so I'll present several theories here along with some research stats.
________________________________________
One very interesting study, "Indexes for Aging Eastern Turkeys" by R. Kelly (1975) focused entirely on aging gobblers in Missouri. This paper shows how spur length, beard length and body weight are associated with known age Eastern gobblers.
To begin the study, a group of 50 known age gobblers were trapped as sub-adults, and fourteen "minimum known-age" gobblers were trapped as adults. The gobblers were banded and released in various locations and then were harvested in 20 different Missouri counties from 1962 to 1974. Twenty-five sub-adult birds were randomly selected from the 1973 harvest data in two counties.
Data from the harvested birds was collected and compiled, giving the following table.
Age of Birds # Birds Avg. Spur Avg Beard Avg WT
(Years) Sampled Length (in.) Length(in.) (lb)
1 25 .26 4.44 15.5
2 27 .87 9.47 21.1
3 11 1.01 9.46 21.9
4 7 1.08 9.00 22.5
5 2 1.16 10.93 23.8
7 2 1.38 10.83 23.3
9 1 1.38 10.43 20.0
"5"** 19 1.18 11.09 22.7
** - This group of gobblers had a minimum known-age of 5 years.
Length of Spurs and Beards and Body Weights of Gobblers in Known Age Classes
Source - R. Kelly - "Indexes for Aging Eastern Turkeys" (1975)
Third National Wild Turkey Symposium, p. 207
________________________________________
Spur Curvature Sharpness Age
Length
0" to 1/2" Straight Rounded 1 year or a jake
1/2" to 7/8" StraightBlunt 1 1/2 years (fall)[/align][align=left]
2 years (spring)
1' to 1 1/2" Slight Curve Pointed 2 to 3 years
Over 1 1/2" Curved Sharp over 4 years
Estimating Gobbler Age by Spur Characteristics
Source - Williams - "After the Hunt " (1996)
Note: These measurements are based on Florida (Osceola) birds which generally have longer spurs than Easterns, Rios etc.
________________________________________
Spur Length Age
0" to 1/2" 1 year or a jake
1/2" to 7/8" 2 years
7/8' to 1" 3 years
1" and above 4 plus years
Source - Keck - "Talk'n Turkey"
Turkey Call Magazine May/June 2001 p. 104[/align]
04-28-2006, 12:11 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 882
RE: Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
Goose 11,
Thanks to you and everybody else. I too had a blast, this was the first year I have ever been able to hunt everyday, all day long if I wanted to.
I can honestly say that I learned more about turkeys' this year than all the years I've hunted them. The only reason I learned more, was because I was in the woods with them more. I heard and called in birds all hours, 8, 9:30, 10:30, 11:00, 12:30, and heard birds gobbling from 5 p.m. til dark, never heard that before because I always chased them in the early morning. As I said earlier, whoopbutt was what I fiqured, he's probably not the biggest, but he was smart and had been hunted hard. I actually expected his weight to be less from chasing the hens.
A good example; a friend of mine killed a bird last weekend that 1 1/2 spurs, beard around 11 inches, but only weighed 15 or 16 lbs, he obviously lost a lot of weight chasing and not eating.
Hope everybody enjoys this season as much as I have.
dog1
Thanks to you and everybody else. I too had a blast, this was the first year I have ever been able to hunt everyday, all day long if I wanted to.
I can honestly say that I learned more about turkeys' this year than all the years I've hunted them. The only reason I learned more, was because I was in the woods with them more. I heard and called in birds all hours, 8, 9:30, 10:30, 11:00, 12:30, and heard birds gobbling from 5 p.m. til dark, never heard that before because I always chased them in the early morning. As I said earlier, whoopbutt was what I fiqured, he's probably not the biggest, but he was smart and had been hunted hard. I actually expected his weight to be less from chasing the hens.
A good example; a friend of mine killed a bird last weekend that 1 1/2 spurs, beard around 11 inches, but only weighed 15 or 16 lbs, he obviously lost a lot of weight chasing and not eating.
Hope everybody enjoys this season as much as I have.
dog1
04-28-2006, 03:40 PM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 774
RE: Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
Congrats!20 lbs is real heavy.I would say that is a 4yr old bird...only way to be sure is to check his teeth.[8D]
Dog1 I would go back in there tomorrow,or Sunday morning,just to make sure.If it is him another bird(probably a 2yr old or inferioir 3yr old)may be gobbling his brains out with the big boy no where in sight to stop him.Might get you one more.
Well now I know tomorrow there will be no day 36 thread...[
]
Dog1 I would go back in there tomorrow,or Sunday morning,just to make sure.If it is him another bird(probably a 2yr old or inferioir 3yr old)may be gobbling his brains out with the big boy no where in sight to stop him.Might get you one more.
Well now I know tomorrow there will be no day 36 thread...[
]
04-28-2006, 08:35 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: Day 35, WHOOPBUTT IS DOWN!!!!!!!
Is it him or isn't it...Only Whoopbutt knows for sure and either way he's not talkin... In the final analysis it isn't that important.
Congratulations are in order as well as a tip of the hat. Your perseverence and endurance are something to be admired.
We will miss your updates, but you have had a remarkable season. The knowledge gained from a season like this one is priceless. Most of us are green with envy!
Good job!
Congratulations are in order as well as a tip of the hat. Your perseverence and endurance are something to be admired.
We will miss your updates, but you have had a remarkable season. The knowledge gained from a season like this one is priceless. Most of us are green with envy!
Good job!