Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

Well boys...
After two months, six chokes, 3 different brands of shells in2 different lengths, and three different shot sizes, I have finally found the best combo out of my Moss 835.
Funny, how after all the testing, it was the first choke I bought with the gun, a Northwind XXXF from Walmart that I got for 15$ that patterned the best. I tested the following chokes. The stock one that came with the 835, both Mad Max's, A Star Dot, A Kicks GT .680, and of course the Northwind XXXF.
The load, not too suprisingly, was the same loadthat I origionally shot my first year with the gun, only in 3.5"...the Win HV #6. The Federal FliteControls were #2, but just could not hold up at 45 yds, which was my maximum distance I pattern at.
Here are the results,based on a average of 4 shots at each yardage.
35yds=Avg. 15 pellets inbrain/spine
45yds=Avg. 7 pellets in brain/spine
I am glad to finally have my pattern out of the way..now I can sit back, practice my calling (as long as my tongue can keep up with me...its been bleeding from practicing the mouth call so much) and wait for the season opener...
Campo:)

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

campo,
can you tell me what constriction that choke is?

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

I've tried multiple chokes and I'm seeing no real difference. I've also found sighting in my red dot scope to be a crap shoot. So, congratulations on your success!

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

Yes, I'm also curious about the actual constriction...I'm guessing 0.675?

On another note...I think you would very happy if you switched to the Winchester X-tended. IMO, I believe you would triple your killing payload at the 45 yard distance, with no tinkering. I, and also a large number of my friends/hunting partners, have discovered over the past 2 years that if you shoot Win HVs well the X-tended Range (XR) pattern to the same point-of-impact, just at greater speed and density. The XR may be $2.50 per shell, but that extra comfort is more than worth it...if you have the time and some extra dough, you may want to try the XR (same shot size) at the range...

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

I actually have no idea what the constriction is on the Northwind...really no idea...wish I did, but I bought the thing so many years ago and can find ZERO information about them online...if anyone knows...please let me know.
Also, I have heard alot about these WIN XR's, and might try them before the season, but still, I am not a fan of shooting beyond 40 yds, mostly because up here in the Northeast if you are in the woods you have alot of crap in the way at 40 yds...but, I might still pick up a box and try a few loads....ho hum..the quest for a better pattern never stops.
Also, regarding TDE's comment about sighting in your red dot, it really is kinda a pain in the a$$, much worse than patterning a normal scope.
All I can say is stick with you and you will succeed.
Took me a month
Campo

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

A couple of months ago in turkey hunting magazine there is an article about finding the right choke in a 835/935 that helps to better understand how a turkey gun should be patterned. I know every gun is different and it still takes some time. I would call Winchester or whatever ammo you plan on using and ask them what they think about the different constrctions.

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

I used to hunt with the same type of set up. A Hasting's .660 choke
with the Win. H.V. 2oz. of #6's thatthrew a great pattern to
40-45 yards. I had several gobbler's get away from me with it so
I have changed my thinking. The #6 shot did not seem to have the
energy/momentum at that range to penetrate. I weighed the Win.
copper plated # 6 shot the other night. On my RCBS scale it weighed
1.9 grains per pellet. The Win. Extened range # 6's weighed 2.1 grains
per pellet. Not much of an improvment for the added cost!!! The Win.
H.V. # 2oz. # 5's weighed 2.8 grains per pellet. That's better IMO.
The Rem. Nitro lead # 4's weighed 3.2 grains per pellet. The Win. H.V
2 oz. copper plated 4's weighed 3.4 grains per pellet. I am not trying
to rain on your thread but if you are going to shoot in that 40-45 yard
range at a tom you may want to try heavier shot. I have been testing
# 5's and #4's with good results out to 45 yards. This is with a .671 to
.675 constriction.

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

While I dont dispute your weight conclusion, I still think that at 45 yds, which I consider my max range, that 7 #6's to the brain and spine would produce a kill. Remember, you dont need a total passthrough to kill a bird, simply penetrating the brain or spine will totally immobilize a bird. I have patterened the #5s, and just cannot get as good of a pattern as I can with #6's at any range. While the difference in weight is influencial, so is the number of hits. If you only have 3 #5's to the vitals vs 7 #6s, the odds are better that you will produce a kill with the latter, since your pattern will vary with each shot.
That said, I will try to keep most of my shots at 35yds, where I know the bird will be annihilated.
I guess I will state all the loads I tested, seefirst postfor all my chokes.
Win HV 3" in #4, #5, #6
Win HV 3.5" #4, #5, #6
Federal FliteControl Magnum's 3" #4, #5, #6
Federal FliteControl Magnum's 3.5" #5
Remington Duplex 3" #4x#6
Remington Hevi-Shot 3" #5 out of a StarDot
Remington Nitro 3.5" #4, #5, #6
Remington Nitro 3" #5, #6
I am going to do a shoot-off most likely between the Federal FliteControl 3.5" #5's and the Win HV 3.5" #6s...will post results when they it is done...
There were a few other loads that were tested too, but I forgot to write them down.
Shoot straight and be safe people:)

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

dsh,

Your weight comparisons are useful, but you are forgetting three primary components to knockdown/killing power. 1) Density, 2) Force, and 3) Aerodynamics.

First, although the XR's are approximately the same weight, they are propelled at slightly higher speeds and are more dense. By keeping the weight the same, but increasing density, this equates into more momentum (ie 3x denser pellets hitting the same surface area) with greater force. Remember, density does not equal weight---think about it this way---would you rather be struck by a 1 pound pine board or a 1 pound piece of oak? If the boards are the same shape, I'd much rather get slammed with that "soft" piece of pine...same theory applies here with the density comparison of the shot. Or 1 pound of feathers compared to 1 pound of lead weight dropped on your foot? One pound may equal one pound, but the difference in density will be directly correlated to the amount of downrange force.

Secondly, the force of the pellet is not lost upon impact, because the greater density of the tungsten composite does not undergo conformational shape changes upon hitting the target. Lead not only loses downrange velocity but also flattens upon impact, thereby greatly reducing the force, or what we refer to as "knockdown/killing power". Therefore, penetration will be greater at longer distances, with shot that are more dense.

Thirdly, the "hevi-shot" type loads also produce better aerodynamics, simply because the shot are more uniform and maintain their shape when propelled thru the muzzle, whereby lead shot is already being mis-shapen before it ever encounters the downrange target. Hence, not only do the hevi-shot type loads produce more killing force, but they also pattern better because of their improved aerodynamic stabilities...

RE: Finally...a pattern worth shooting
 

Sounds like a good pattern. I have a Mossberg 835 24in Barrel with a Primos tight Wade Ported Choke. I patterned; Winchester Supreme 3in #5copper, Remington Hevi-Shot 3in.#5 and Remington mag 3in Copper plate and last but not least Remington 3in NitroTurkey hard lead.

Well to the point, the Hevi-shot did put a more dense pattern on the turkey. stayed well formed and constricted. I give it 1st place. BUT believe it or not the NitroTurkey lead got second.

@ 35 yard 20 pellets to the spind and brain ( 3 targets- not less than 17 pellets) @40 yards- 11 pellets twice not less than 9 on one.

Sure lead is not going to be the 45 yard killer, just dont hold that tight, but for 4.99 a box, not bad to 40 yards.