A Dozen Shots With The .50 TC/GM Renegade
 

I had an interesting shooting session yesterday I thought I'd share with you guys.

One of the guns I plan to use this deer season is my TC Renegade with a .50 caliber Green Mountain Long Range Hunter barrel. I haven't shot this gun in the last few years and thought (but wasn't sure) that it was sighted in for 240 grain/.429 Deep Curls. Also, I'd never shot it beyond 100 yards and wanted to verify trajectory out to 150 yards because that's the distance to the back end of one of my food plots.

The day was beautiful - sunny and low humidity. But the wind was a little more than I would have liked, persistent and squirrely.

My plan was to take two shots at 25 yards to verify that the scope was set for the load I was shooting (it was), then take two shots at each 25 yard interval out to 150 yards. That's what I did.

Here's the gun.



And here's the target.



Now here's the interesting thing. I was shooting a 95 grain load which produces an average velocity of just under 1650 fps with that bullet. Looking through my files I found I had an old ballistic chart for that bullet that I'd printed a few years back using the Ballistic Calculator at Handloaders.com. That chart was for a velocity of 1600 fps (close enough?). Here's the chart. You can compare it to the real world results yourself. As for me - I've always been impressed by how close the results of that calculator are to my shooting results with various loads and guns.



Here's a link to the calculator. http://handloads.com/calc/index.html

How do you determine the Ballistic Coefficient?
Is that something that Speer provides on a factory chart or spec. sheet of some sort?

Arcticap, the calculator at the link computes a BC when you enter the bullet diameter, weight and shape.

Looks to me like you're good for a dead center hold out to 125 yard Semi. But you better hold top of back at 150. Looks like you're good to go - so good luck.

Yeah, I was happy with the results, especially considering the wind conditions during the shoot. I was trying to time my shots between gusts. But when it was somewhat still at the bench the target board would be shaking in the wind. Then when the target board was still, the wind at the bench was strong enough that I couldn't leave any sabots out of the package. If I left them loose on the bench the wind would blow them to the ground.

Well that was pretty windy. Its amazing you shot that well!
I'm in the process of playing with my .45 T/C Hawken/GM LRH deciding what to shoot. My paper patched bullets shoot good (370 grs) and so do Ed's 350 gr bullets.
And in speaking with Ed about his bullets and him telling me what mold it is and that he sizes them down to .452 from .458 I thought well if that's the case and before I invest in another mold, I'm going to resize some of my 405 gr. .458 bullets down to .451 and see how they shoot. I already have the mold and the sizer die. I already size them down to .451 and paper patch them for my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps.

Lookin forward to your results with those .458/405's. Are they from the Lee mold? How do they do in the Sharps?

Check out my post on reloading. 3 shots at 55 yards (with all the rain I couldn't set the target at 50 because of a huge puddle) 0.75" C-C. Not too bad with open sights.

Ed you wouldn't want that Renegade the way he ruined it by putting a scope on it! And if I recall he has another one just like it somewhere and calls them the sinful sisters!

They all ware Simmons 4X ProDiamond Shotgun Scopes.



They do have some virtuous cousins.

sinful sisters lol

Since when did a scoped sidelock shooting saboted projectiles become traditional?

BPS

Ever since I declared them to be so BPS. DO NOT question the Semisane. ;)

(SIDE NOTE: I was one of the few forum members who opposed breaking out a separate Traditional forum from the Black Powder Forum, reasoning that most members would be reading the posts in both forums anyway.)

I'm aware of that... so why didn't you post it where it belongs?

BPS

Aw come on BPS, don't get so hung up on this title thing. :D

I was shooting GOEX black powder out of a side lock percussion gun with a scope and using a sabotted bullet. I kinda` figured a sidehammer with black powder fit the Traditional forum best.

Just for fun, consider this. We have a Black Powder Forum with a Traditional Muzzleloading sub-forum. So where do you post if you're shooting an inline muzzleloader using Blackhorn 209? Your rifle doesn't fit in the "Traditional Muzzleloading" forum and your powder, which in no way resembles black powder, doesn't fit in the "Black Powder" forum.

So deciding where to place a post can be a coin flip. Does a scope on a side hammer make it non-traditional? Certainly there's documentation of telescopic sights being used in the mid-1800's. Is a modern scope a no-no, but a replica of an early brass tube sight OK? Would a paper patched bullet fit in the Traditional Forum? If so, is a bullet in a sabot closely related to a paper patched bullet? Perhaps as closely related as Blackhorn is to black powder? DAMMIT! Now I have a headache. :s2:.

How about this? I'll dissolve my membership to this site so guys like you can have your way. Then you can also request that the traditional forum be dissolved so you won't have to read two forums that are related but still different. I'm not sure why they called the original forum "Black Powder" I questioned that in the past and never got a straight answer. I got sick of the arguments that constantly arose between those who prefer modern style ML firearms vs those of us who prefer traditional. I own scoped muzzleloading rifles and shoot them on occasion but they're not my "go to". If I sit down for a shooting session or hunt with one and want to talk about it, I'd post it in the "Black Powder" forum, not the "Traditional" forum. You can have it your way if you'd like, just say the word.

BPS

There are posts all the time within the Black Powder forum that would have been better suited in some other forum.
You boys also posted "OFF TOPIC" items which treated the BP forums as more of your own public posting ground.
Many of us let that slide.

I see a Traditional firearm with a few Modern tweaks.
Nothing more nothing less. It's not worth arguing over guys.
Santa is still watching us know.

JW

I've enjoyed "breaking bread" with many of you over the years but it's time for me to part ways. God speed to those who remain.

BPS

Heck BPS, I hate to see you departing over this. I wasn't trying to have my way, only explain why I posted this thread in the Traditional forum. I must have expressed myself poorly to upset you so.

I remember the days when we had much more activity in the Black Powder forum and, as JW mentioned, were a congenial community that treated the forum as our own little campfire conversation. No one was offended if one of the guys posted off topic regarding a successful fishing trip, a great vacation, or even the purchase of a new cartridge gun. I sure don't remember arguments arising between those who prefer modern style ML firearms vs those of us who prefer traditional. It may have occurred but if it did it didn't stick in my memory. The only controversy I recall had to do with one member being frequently challenged for posting his opinions as "facts".

Like you I have a number of rifles; in-lines, caplocks, and flintlocks. Some are scoped. Many are not. I enjoy shooting and talking about them all and try to fit them in the correct forum.

I dont recall hardly any modern vs traditional "hot topics" on this forum. I am completely indifferent about each having their own sections. If it loads from the muzzle its a ML as far as im concerned but if a traditionalist wants a sub forum thats fine. I would agree the name should have been "Muzzleloading" instead of "Black Powder". Very few use real black powder anymore simply because subs are much easier to get and cleaner than real black. Some subs are even fine in sidelocks but i dont see anyone getting their panties in a wad about it. At least not on this forum. In all honesty though using a sub at all is about as far as you can get from a traditional method. They were not even invented until after modern H&R inlines came out. Smokeless powder had been out for roughly 100 years before Pyrodex.

Just a FYI, wooden sabots date back to around 1820s.

When I first saw BPSs criticism of the post, I decided to look into his other previous posts to see if this was an ongoing issue. I'm not familiar with the black powder posters, and didn't want to make an issue out of nothing. But I also didn't want someone continually giving people problems for posting.

What I found was lots of great and informative posts from BPS. I also found many interactions between semisane and bps in the past, and they all seemed to be friendly and cordial to me. So I decided it was just a friendly poke between two long time members, and no issue.

I guess what I'm saying is.... This seemed like a non-issue to me. And seems like a silly reason for a long time member to leave the forum.

One of the "special" things about the black powder section of this forum is the relationships built between the members. There are lots of off topic threads, from simple things like "merry Christmas" posts to posts asking how certain members are who haven't logged on for awhile. These are technically all off topic to the section, but because of the community here, the mods support posts like this.

BPS, if there is actually an issue with threads being in the wrong place etc, send me a PM with some details and examples that I can bring to admin that could help the situation.

Also if there are suggestions to make changes on the forum such as changing the black powder title to something more appropriate, let us know. We have admins ear and they will at least hear out any suggestions that we have. Not all the changes are made every time, but it's a chance. And with ample evidence and better suggestions it might be something that we can get changed.

Hope you stick around.

-Jake

​​​

Have at it Jake....all yours.

JW

Better
Muzzleloading Discuss topics about muzzleloader hunting and shooting.

Some of us shoot them way more than we hunt with them. The recreational shooters AND hunters tend to be far more informed than the guy who buys one just to extend his hunting season.

Yep. One forum for all Muzzloading, and Festivus for the rest of us. :s2:

"Black powder" includes breech loaders and many other guns that folks load with black powder including cartridge guns, many that were originally designed for use with BP but not exclusively.
Some examples are the Colt SAA [single action army], revolvers used for cowboy action shooting and BP cartridge guns that were converted from muzzle loaders like the trap doors, rolling blocks and other military guns & their black powder cartridges.

The world of "black powder" shooting is much larger than simply muzzle loaders and the name of the black powder forum is a reflection of that.
It makes sense to separate the different subjects.

"The .45 Colt cartridge which is sometimes called .45 Long Colt, .45 LC, or 11.43×33mmR, is a handgun cartridge dating to 1872. It was originally a black-powder revolver round developed for the Colt Single Action Army Revolver. This cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 and served as an official US military handgun cartridge for 14 years."--->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

I suppose many folks also didn't realize that the Houston Astros baseball team was originally named the Houston Colt .45's.from 1962-1964. :lmao:

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LOL That's just way too funny!

LOL....I thought I was the one to bust your chops about a scope on a sidelock? Now you've added sabots? You're hanging out with Jon too much.

Hi Semi.

C,mon back BPS.I love to read your posts.Us PA.guys got to stick together.