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-   -   Grafs black powder ? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/traditional-muzzleloading-forum/411588-grafs-black-powder.html)

mounting man 01-24-2017 08:37 AM

Grafs black powder ?
 
Anybody here ever try Graf 2-FF in a flinter or in any rifle?

Muley Hunter 01-24-2017 10:27 AM

I have. I like Goex better and Swiss better that Goex.

MountainDevil54 01-24-2017 10:56 AM

not a fan of that stuff. Have a couple lbs of 4fg i bought off muley and its slow.

Muley Hunter 01-24-2017 11:47 AM

I've only bought one pound of 4F in Graf's. You sure one of them isn't 2F?

cayugad 01-24-2017 12:54 PM

I use it all the time. And I shot it in 2f and 3f and never had a problem of any kind with it. Its cost effective, it ignites easy, and has about the same power as Goex. I use their 4f as my priming powder still. The powder as I understand it is made by Schuetzen out of Germany. The same people that make Wano, another powder I shoot. If you don't shoot a lot, spend the extra bucks and get Swiss. That is a wonderful black powder.

Yes, Graf's is not Swiss black powder, but it is not priced like Swiss black powder. In my 30+ years of shooting I have burned off probably 40 pounds or more of just Graf's. I used to burn off about 15 to 20 pounds a year. And friends and I shot it for many years straight. Right now I am on a Schuetzen powder kick because I found it on sale and purchased a case. Since it shot like Graf's powder I figured to save a couple bucks.

Those that dislike Graf's black powder I am sure have their reasons. But having shot most every kind of powder in cap and flintlocks, on the market... I would take Graf's any day.

One powder I avoid like the plague is called Elephant Black Powder. That stuff was so bad, I made a powder trail with it (like in Daniel Boone movies) and torched it just to see it burn. Another powder that was all right but ..... is called KIK. Its pretty reasonable in the price range. I shot a lot of that. About 15 pounds of it. I also shot a lot of Wano. Wano was a good powder to shoot. One powder I want to try next is made by Goex called Old Eynsford. I hear that is a good powder.

I get my powder at Powder Inc. Although I admit I have not had to purchase powder in over a year and still have several pounds in the vault.

Muley Hunter 01-24-2017 01:48 PM

You have it backwards. Wano owns and makes Schuetzen.

Graf's has less power than Goex and I find the fouling a bit harder. One thing I don't like about Graf's is they buy the powder in bulk from Wano and then load it into their bottles. That's a lot of air exposer. Maybe that takes longer sometimes and the powder has more time to absorb moisture. I prefer powder to be bottled up right away by the maker.

The difference in price is too small to worry about.

GOOD OLE BOY 01-24-2017 03:02 PM

I am no way an expert and far from it.But I am happy with good ole American made Goex.

ModernPrimitive 01-25-2017 01:41 PM

This is what I was asking in my thread-gotta get an order placed sooner than later, was thinking to give Grafs a try; maybe the better plan is to try a coupla cans of each...

MountainDevil54 01-25-2017 01:46 PM

I'd order some goex or better, olde eynsford.

ModernPrimitive 01-25-2017 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by MountainDevil54 (Post 4291871)
I'd order some goex or better, olde eynsford.


Educate me on olde eynsford.

clean burning?

MountainDevil54 01-25-2017 05:21 PM

yes clean burning, close to the same velocity as swiss, accurate. Look at my video in the bridgers patches post, 70gr olde eynsford is what I used.

GoexBlackhorn 01-25-2017 05:44 PM

I love me some Goex FFF in everything.:guiness:

ModernPrimitive 01-26-2017 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by MountainDevil54 (Post 4291890)
yes clean burning, close to the same velocity as swiss, accurate. Look at my video in the bridgers patches post, 70gr olde eynsford is what I used.


Watched it earlier- Nice!

Muley Hunter 01-26-2017 12:36 PM

I've always been suspicious of Olde Enysford. I wondered how they got that extra power for such a cheap price. We know with American labor it's hard to compete with foreign countries. If you've ever seen how Swiss is made you'd see all the extra steps they go through making their powder. How can Goex do it so cheap when making OE?

I called Goex to talk to them about OE a couple of years ago. I was trying to get them to admit it wasn't a pure black powder formula. They never did, but did tell me their goal was to match Swiss powder. He said they couldn't quite do it, but came close. OE doesn't have the power of Swiss, but it's much closer than regular Goex.

Since Hodgdon owns Goex and makes Pyrodex. I still think something is funny with the OE formula. OE is only $2.00 a lb more than regular Goex, but it's $5.00 a lb cheaper than Swiss. How did they do that?

MountainDevil54 01-26-2017 05:48 PM

Swiss imports their powder. Higher cost for both buyer and seller.

Muley Hunter 01-26-2017 06:01 PM

If that were true Graf's (Shuetzen) would be high too. It's the cheapest powder we can buy.

super_hunt54 01-26-2017 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by MountainDevil54 (Post 4292022)
Swiss imports their powder. Higher cost for both buyer and seller.

It's not just that. Their labor cost is high as well. Even higher than ours. As Pete said, it is a VERY detailed process to make Swiss the top Black powder on the market at this time. And yes OE is close in power but no it isn't as clean burning. BUT it is plenty clean enough! I will still use Swiss almost exclusively but I will probably start using some OE here and there on days when I am feeling really froggy and want to put some serious amounts of lead downrange. I seriously love my BH209 but that chit is EXPENSIVE to be loading my BP cartridge guns with!

bronko22000 01-27-2017 05:38 AM

I'd like to give Swiss a try. Any one know where I can buy some in eastern PA or who the distributors are? Does Shyda's in Lebanon carry it? Or Ron Shirk's?

Muley Hunter 01-27-2017 05:54 AM

I have to buy online and just whine about the Hazmat fee.

Lately i've bought all my BP from Graf's.

bronko22000 01-27-2017 09:19 AM

If I were to buy in bulk then the hazmat fee wouldn't be much of a problem. I can get Goex just down the road anytime. I would like to give Swiss a shot and see how it is. Especially in my .54s and .58

Muley Hunter 01-27-2017 01:59 PM

Call them.

super_hunt54 01-27-2017 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by bronko22000 (Post 4292056)
I'd like to give Swiss a try. Any one know where I can buy some in eastern PA or who the distributors are? Does Shyda's in Lebanon carry it? Or Ron Shirk's?

Haven't ran into a distributor yet that wouldn't include it in an order for a customer Bronko. Call either one and ask them if they carry it and if they don't, how much they would charge to put in an order for a pound or 2 on their next BP order.

bronko22000 01-27-2017 03:56 PM

I would call them but I'm in FL now and won't be back until May. Then I'll see if I can get it. I just asked the question to see if anyone knew. I can drive to Shyda's easy enough.

super_hunt54 01-27-2017 05:01 PM

I'll call them in the morning for you and ask if and how much. Want me to call Shirks too?

super_hunt54 01-28-2017 01:40 PM

No distributors for Swiss in PA at all actually. And I didn't think about this until just now and Shyda's is already closed. That's about retarded, closing at 5 on a Saturday? I don't remember them closing that early. Anywho, if you want to try it out, about the best deal online is with Powder Inc at $138.75 for a 5 pounder. Minimum you can order. Free shipping. https://powderinc.com/product/schuet...-black-powder/ I know a 5 pounder sounds like a lot, but I can guarantee you will love the stuff. And you shoot a good bit so it will go pretty quick. I use the 2F myself but I don't shoot anything bigger than a .50. You may want 3F for your .58's but I'll let someone who knows for sure guide you on that one.

Muley Hunter 01-28-2017 02:09 PM

Swiss 2F is almost 3F in Goex. They use a different system to measure the kernels.

GoexBlackhorn 01-28-2017 03:24 PM

Pete
I agree with you on the smaller grain size with Swiss.
What I would like to know is if Olde Eynsford powder granules are small like Swiss powder. I know you've purchased it in the past and my nearest Michigan supplier (50 miles away) sells Olde Eynsford FF, but not FFF.

Just curious! I use Goex FFF currently and it's a perfect size for my sidehammer.

Muley Hunter 01-28-2017 03:33 PM

It's been awhile since I tried OE and can't remember how it compared to regular Goex.

Jon has used it recently and should know.

edmehlig 01-29-2017 07:42 AM


Originally Posted by bronko22000 (Post 4292056)
I'd like to give Swiss a try. Any one know where I can buy some in eastern PA or who the distributors are? Does Shyda's in Lebanon carry it? Or Ron Shirk's?


Dixon's near Hamburg PA sells it.

bronko22000 01-29-2017 09:22 AM

Thanks Ed - I've been planning on taking a run down there anyway. It's been a while since I've been there. Neat place.
Thanks to you too SH54 for the research.

GoexBlackhorn 01-29-2017 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by Muley Hunter (Post 4292203)
It's been awhile since I tried OE and can't remember how it compared to regular Goex.

Jon has used it recently and should know.

I was hoping you knew if the Olde E FF grain size was small like Swiss FF.

Muley Hunter 01-29-2017 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by GoexBlackhorn (Post 4292288)
I was hoping you knew if the Olde E FF grain size was small like Swiss FF.


I know, but it's been a couple of years since I used it and I can't remember. I don't really think so, because OE is powder made in the US and would use those measurements.


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