1st Time Refinisher, TC Renegade, Questions...
 

Hey everyone,

First time going to be refinishing any firearm and looking for advice. My dad has a TC Renagade from the early to mid 80s I believe. I was going to by a build your own kit but inquired about his Renagade since I know he doesn't hunt with it anymore and he gladly dug it out and gave it to me. He always takes fantastic care of his firearms but to his horror the outside of the barrel had a huge rust spot on the outside of the barrel. Its been in his case for years and thinks something obviously wasn't completely dry in it. Inside of the barrel is spotless though.
I want to take everything apart, refinish the stock and most likely blue the barrel, especially with this rust damage. I have the feeling that getting it off is going to really scuff the barrel.

Thanks to internet and youtube, I kinda think i know how to sand down the stock for new stain. One question is, do I need stripper for this to get started or just start with straight sandpaper right off the bat?

Suggestions on how to tackle rust on barrel? Im reading WD-40 and a brass brush?

What can i do with the other metal parts like trigger guards, hammer etc? Just reblue? Ive read about cold blue but do i just put that over whats on the metal and barrel now or do I have to remove what is currently on it somehow?

Product recommendations would be helpful as far as type of brush to remove finish, stain type, best barrel blue etc. Thanks and as soon as i get started i'll keep a thread going to hopefully help other beginners such as myself. Thanks!

First of all you never and I repeat never ever store a gun for any length of time in a gun case. You have seen the result of that, it is almost a guarantee the gun will rust. Next the best thing would be to have the gun and hardware re-blued by a professional. If you want to do it yourself I recommend you remove all the old bluing. If your barrel and hardware is pitted you should do you best to remove the pits and polish the bare steel. I sporterized an 8mm Mauser a long time ago for my brother. I won't go into all the details of fitting and finishing a new stock but I will tell you how I reblued the rifle with cold blueing, Birchwood Casey. After the barreled action was stripped of old blueing and polished I got a long tin chicken feeder trough about 4 inches deep and long enough to hold the barreled action. I plugged the muzzle and the Breech with pieces of wooden dowel rods and put water in the trough and set it on my stove top and brought it to the boil. When it was hot enough to flash dry I took it out of the water and using a and continued the process until the barrel was deep black and shiney, about 20 times. That was back in 1970 and the barreled action looks as good today as it did in 1970. Here are some pictures. It can be done, it just takes time.

GMPD, the person you should PM is Mountain Devil. While I don't agree with his choice of favorite manufacturer, I do believe he does solid work on finishing and beautifying muzzleloaders. He could give you every answer and advise you seek and does very nice work himself. I've seen some of the evidence of his abilities and would take his advice on refinishing sidelock muzzleloaders. He might even advise you to, instead of bluing, strip the old bluing, polish the metal and assure no pitting remains (if any) and go with browning. Drop him a PM and go from there. Those old renegades look good with a good bluing but my own personal opinion is they are REALLY set off with all the metal browned. As far as the stock goes, with some of those nicks being as deep as they are, I would just start with sandpaper to strip all finish and then use a water and glass method to swell those nicks and dents out. Take a drop or 2 of water and put it in the dent, give it a few seconds to seep in a little, then take smooth glass (I have a thick glass rod for this. Got it to remove small dents in pool cues) and rub it vigorously to create heat. This will cause the grain to swell bringing the dent up. Sand smooth. If you tried to sand out the nicks and dents, you would have to take a lot of the surrounding wood out to get it even without trying to swell the dents first. It can be a bit time consuming but it is a proven method and keeps one from changing the dimensions of the stock by removing too much wood while sanding.

OT, if you ever wanna get rid of that old Mauser give me a jingle. While many disagree, I really like the old stepped contour barrels and if you can find one that's not all shot out, you can really have a good shooter. I stupidly traded one I had fit up with a Monte stock that I wasn't afraid at all to take a shot at 250 on a whitetail with. Traded it for a nice Springfield 1911 .45 in mint condition. Guy really liked my rifle, I really liked his .45. Still kick myself sometimes as that dang rifle was a hell of a good shooter.

GPMD...

Oldtimr is right, don't EVER store a gun in a soft case, or any case for thar matter. I've seen a number of firearms nearly destroyed for that reason. I'd have a good Smith do the blue work but you should be able to refinish the stock yourself.
Small dents can be steamed out and small nicks or scratches can be sanded. Deeper gouges if any, may need to be filled with a compound that matches the original wood. You can gently scrape the old finish off or use a stripping agent prior to sanding. Be sure to use a sanding block so you don't round any straight edges.
As far as finish, that's up to you. I prefer a satin, oil rubbed look myself.

BPS

Super, that one shoots very well. I was surprised since my brother bought the rifle in military condition out of a wooden barrel of Mausers at a Boscov's department store back in 1969 for $20.00.

Just to give you an image of a PROPER browned barrel, I found this pic of an exceptionally well crafted Hawken repro (made to the exacting standards of the original Hawkin family). It is probably one of the absolute best repros I have ever seen as far as sticking to the original design. Granted, nothing wrong with the repro's other than them calling them "Hawkens" but if it aint a Hawken design, don't call it a Hawken!!

I wouldn't strip it and refinish it if it were mine. Every nick and scratch would be like testament to my family. I'd go over the wood finish with something like furniture scratch and dent cover if I did any thing and then work the wood like I'd protect any other gun wood.

On the blued metal you can make it pretty nice yourself. I've built kits and redone a couple BP guns over and over after hunting with them for 30 or 40 years. Rub the part that's not hurt too bad with Scotch Bright. A little steel wool or even work it little with sane paper just like you would a kit gun finishing with the finest grit. Kit guns come with bare metal.

The brown it or blue it. I blue every thing with the perma blue bluing kits. I'll heat the full length of the barrel with a hair drier. Heating and rubbing with scotch bright until it all feels evenly hot.

Have your alcohol and perma blue sitting there ready to go before you start warming it up. Cotton balls near buy or I use these cotton face cleaning pads my wife buys now. I wear the brown cloth garden gloves. It's hot and you don't want more prints on it as fast as you are taking them off.

First time you warm it up then right away wipe it down with the alcohol pads to remove any oils, grease, what ever down to bare metal. Then rub it down a little with scotch brite.

Heat it up again. Stop and run the scotch brite over it again, heat it up and imediately rub it down from end to end with a pad soaked in perma blue.

LIGHTLY scotch brite the whole thing and heat it up again then hit it again with a fresh pad of perma blue starting from the opposite end this time. When it has ALL BEEN WET THEN KEEP RUBBING kind of polishing it with the perma blue pad

You can repeat these as much as you want getting it blacker and blacker and blacker as you want. Ending with a gun oil wipe down. I think you'll like it, I do.

I like the Navy way. If it don't move, paint it. If it does move, blue it.

Actually it is if it doesn't move paint it and if it does oil it! I would not use alcohol, it leaves an oily residue.

I've found through trial and error, and boy were some of the errors DUZIES, Brake Cleaner is about the best stuff one can find for degreasing metals. Rather than using something that works "okay", use something that is actually designed for degreasing steel! I'm not talking about the Break Clean for gun cleaning. I'm talking the stuff in a can made for degreasing/cleaning the oil off disk rotors. Stuff is great for this purpose but be warned, I am NOT talking about regular gun cleaning practices here. Brake cleaners, most with the chlorine in them, will strip the finish right off ANY wood and will disintegrate a lot of plastics. It also takes the oil right out of the pores of steel, even stainless, so I am NOT recommending it for use as a regular cleaner. Just for this purpose of bluing or browning barrels.

Well I'm sure there's better stuff for degreasing, like a dip tank full of hot perc or MEK but I also know I'd done it a lot of times just using plain old rubbing alcohol and it worked just fine far as I can tell. About every house hold has it. It's easy and safe to use. But hey, use what ya wanna use.

Great advice guys thanks! I never considered browning the barrel, I'll have to look into that. Whichever color I choose, I definitely want to try myself instead of bring to a pro and if I mess it up too bad, then I'll pay for my mistake to be fixed.

This will mainly be a late season hunting rifle so it doesn't need to be mint condition as it'll be used for what it was made for and not display. I am in no rush to finish it so plan on taking all the time in the world attempting to do in correctly.

I did have mixed emotions refinishing it as when my dad gave it to me he told me different stories of hunts he was on with it. Each nick holds a story. He encouraged me to redo it though so I will.

I'll make my final plans this weekend and hope to start taking it apart and getting going next week. I'll definitely keep this thread updated as i know more questions are coming. Thanks again all and Happy New Years!

Larry Portterfield from Midway usa does some good videos on stock refinishing and barrel refinishing watch and read as much as possible before you start it really helps!

Use a stripper on that stock to get the factory finish off. It comes off pretty easily as its just a spray on finish that sits on top of the wood VS soaking in and penetrating. You'll just eat up sand paper like crazy if you skip the stripper process.

The barrel is almost browned, I'd put it back in the gun case until that rusting process is evenly coating the barrel, then rub it back! lol.

Laural mountain forge is what I'd recommend. They look a ton better when browned. Very nice warmth to them afterward.

Keep stain OFF of the stock! That's good walnut and good walnut does NOT need any stain, just a good oil finish like truoil that soaks into the wood and brings out the depth.

Ok, started stripping everything today and already have a question. How do I get the rear sight off? I removed the screw in the center that you'd turn for elevation figuring that was holding it on as well. I cant see any other screws to take out so am thinking its just stuck on. I was going to WD-40 it and let it sit and then try to knock it loose with a rubber mallet or a punch. As of now it doesn't move a millimeter. I was going to remove the front sight with a punch as well and replace both front and rear with fiber sights. Any opinions on removal? Thanks again

This is most likely an obvious answer but I'm also hand sanding that rust off the barrel and was wondering if I could use a little electric sander on low to do the job. I'm thinking no because I might round the octagon barrel but looking for comments.

you can use the electric sander with 150 grit. Just keep the surfaces FLAT. The rear sight, unscrew that top screw all of the way until it comes out, then knock the roll pin out thats visible from the outside. Its a really screwy design.

GPMD...

The front portion of the sight has a small roll pin that holds the upper and lower halves together. You'll need to tap that pin out so you can lift the top half of the sight off the bottom half. You can use a jeweler's punch if you have access to any but I've used a very small finish nail to do this by first blunting the pointed end with a file so it won't try to enter the roll pin and cause it to spread. Tap the pin out from left to right and tap it back in from right to left...GENTLY!!
After you get the pin out you'll be able to get to the base screws which anchor the bottom half to the barrel. You can use the nail or whatever you used to tap it out with to hold the two halves in position for reassembly and just follow the nail out as you tap the pin back in.
Take your time and don't get heavy handed... it's really not that difficult.

BPS

Awesome guys, thanks for help! Worked perfectly!

Ridiculous question guys but any suggestions how to remove screws I can't budge? I removed the "pin" on the rear sight to give me access to the two screws that hold the sight on. I can't budge them. It's almost as if the grooves on the screws are too shallow. I soaked in WD-40 for a few hours with no luck. Just added more and letting it sit over night. I wanted to add fiber sights but that might be a fantasy as I can't get this thing off for the life of me. Suggestions?

TC uses LocTite from what I recall. It's been a while since I removed a site on a TC barrel. Put your flathead SD in and gently tap a few times with a hammer. That should break them loose. They can be a pain in the rear.

Make sure you use a properly fitting screwdriver. You can also try heating the screws with a propane torch for a bit and then try to loosen them. Before you apply any penetrating oil let them cool to touch. Try Kroil brand penetrating oil, WD-40 won't do it.

BPS

Oh crap, I forgot he said this rifle was from the 80's! I don't think they used LocTite back then. They just used the biggest forearmed man on the planet to tighten the screws :D Or it always seemed that way to me! Not to mention I would like to find the man who invented the slotted screw (flathead) and beat him over the head repeatedly with my biggest screwdriver! BPS's suggestion of heat is probably going to be your best answer.

Thanks guys, I'll try the heat and see what happens. 95% sure I have correct screwdriver size. Lord knows I have 100 sizes and it seems I have 3 that are a great fit. Last night it almost seemed like the screwdriver would break before it slipped out. Those screws are in there good. Thanks again

If you continue to have problems buy am impact screw driver, tho the power tool the hand tool. You hit it with a hammer and it will help twist the screw. Most work in both directions. You don't have to buy it here, this is just to show you what they look like. They are not expensive and have lots of uses. http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-...ase-37530.html

This is on the money. Those usually also come with excellent bits to fit every type screw perfectly.

With a few years in machine shops and millwright welder I've got a couple other tricks up my sleeve.

The more time you've got the more gentle you can be with it. BE GENTLE with that impact driver and BE GENTLE with that torch. A propane torch is plenty to ruin the heat treat on that barrel. Using the impact driver you can use the pen oil and the driver together making sure there is always oil available to the screw threads with any minuscule movement and just tapping the driver repeatedly. Over and over and over more times than I want to type if you have the time and set it aside to soak intermittently.

There are two types of Locktite, red and blue. The blue is probably what they used if they used any and it is intended to release with heat.

Just the tapping and the use of a hair drier is enough heat if you do it repeatedly eventually it will just move and you'll wonder if it was ever tight. The temp changes between the screw and the steel around it will "suck" in that oil a little each time it warms or cools.

I have changed out sights on some of my T/C rifles over the years and have never found any of them to be loc-tighted in place. My guess is that they're rusted in place (judging by the looks of that barrel), that's why the Kroil should be helpful.

Hair dryer?...Really? A heat gun maybe...

BPS

Not sure about their sidelocks BPS but they do use it on many of their rifles. Don't know if it's "LocTite" per say but they use some form of the stuff. As far as using a hair drier, it could work. At least some of them put out pretty good heat. Plenty to loosen LocTite enough to be turned out. Heat gun would be better but many don't have them. Most households have a hair drier in them though.

Heat gun is even better.


If you have one.

I'd risk the torch first before I'd go buy a heat gun just for this job though.

LocTite blue is good stuff. It was designed not so much to lock the screw (although it does), but to fill the threads so they won't loosen under vibration. I used to machine parts for and assemble jaw chucks 4" through 12" diameter and we used the blue on all the lock screws for the jaw pivot pins, top plate bolts, counter balance weight screws etc., basically anything that had a torque spec. or anything we didn't want to move and never had anything come apart under extreme usage.

I use it on sight screws, base mount and ring screws, hammer screws or anything you may need or want to remove later. You can break it loose with a screwdriver, hex wrench, etc. without hassle.

BPS

Yeah but sometimes, after a fairly long period, it hardens up to just about like the Red BPS. That's when the "tap" method or heat either one is needed. I've run into screws with the blue LT, that I know for a fact was the blue LT because I'm the one that used it, that was stuck tight. Even with the right flat head I almost stripped the slot. Had to tap AND heat those buggers out.

I do in fact have a heat gun, going to give it a shot this afternoon when the kiddies go down for a nap. If that doesn't work then I'll try the impact driver as suggested. I really would love to get these dang things out! I'll reply with results