I have returned....
 

How are you folks doing?Been years where the heck have I been?I got addicted to crossbows Excalibur micro 335 you would not believe this I can shoot it better at 50 yards than my .50 cal hawkins..lol...

Soooooooooooo,I will be dropping in for help having a heck of time getting my .50 cal hawkins using 3f to shoot well at 50 yards?Could it be my peep sight?or load I am using 60/70 grs of 3f with .018 patch and .490 rb and bore button..

could it be my barrel is heating up,I shot about 20 shots and cleaned between each shot I would say about 10 minutes between each shot..

any tips would be nice..Anyhow be talking with you folks again..


sproulie...

What Hawken do you have?

hawken
 

I have Thompson Hawken.50 cal from 1969.is 1-48 twist...For years I used 370 maxi-balls with 70/80 grs of 2f it was great at 50 yards..

Long ago roundball told me to use 90 grs of 3f with .018 patch with bore button in Hawkens .50 cal for deer..This is first i tried it but 90 grs kicks my head off so I felt would start at 60/70 grs of 3f...

not using bore butter ,dry barrel with lubed patchs not cut at muzz but i can do that if needed just have 500 pillow .018 to use up...

I have peep sight and its hard at 50 yards to see too i try to use a 6 o,clock hold on small black dot on white paper..

not very good groups..moved back to 25 yds and not good BUT was fairly good at about my 5 th shot not 15 th shot ..

could my barrel be getting warm waited 10 minutes between shots cleaning every shot with dry barrel .Been gone so long I forgot everything...

While a hot barrel does seem to have an effect on accuracy with sabots, I have not found that to be the case with patched balls. You should not need a bore button with well fitting patches.

You don't say what powder you are using. But I'll bet it's Triple Seven. If so, switch to Pyrodex RS and your groups will likely improve.

Also, if you are using prelubed commercial patches the fabric may have deteriorated in storage. Recover some of your shot patches and inspect them for condition. If they show burn through or cuts around the bore/ball contact surface, the problem is either your patch material or lube.

Any discussion about accuracy with patched round balls should start with us seeing your used patches, can't diagnose problems without that...Put a tarp on the ground in front of the barrel for them to land on and then post the pics...

Well first off, welcome back Sproul.
Secondly, I agree that a button is not needed and the patches need to hold up without burning through. As far as your peep try shooting at a 6" bull at 50 yards. You should be able to see it well enough.

I am using Goex powder 3f was using 2f for my maxi-balls years ago it was suggested to go too 3f ..

patchs are around 8 years old and they were from ox-yoke.They used what they call Precision lube on them. patchs were going in hard so I just misted them with spray lube from member here i bought 3 years ago or so called Birddog 6 liquid patch lube .its liquid green color he makes for patchs ..He said in his info that using his lube may change point of impact but I hardly misted the Precision patch at all ...

The outside of all patchs at 60 grs of 3 f have small splits all around patch like when your blue jeans get old you get white strings little strings all around outside of patch about 1/16 deep...the ball shows a perfect black ring inside with no holes or tears in patch ..These patchs are .018 pillow tick from ox -yoke ..

peep does not have little insert to make hole smaller wish it did it was new invention V-PEEP back when peeps were illegal here in pa..

I use black dot on white paper and hold 6 0,clock or the front sight covers it at 50 yards......

Roundball sent me info long ago I guess he is not member here he like us here was big on .50 cal hawkins ..he said 90 grs of Geox 3f with bore button ,.018 patch with Hoppes lube for hunting he must have grit 70 grs of 3f hurts my face shooting,LOL..

Then he said .50 grs of Geox 3f ,no bore button,.018 patch ,hoppes lube for practice ..I must have kept his info in my save file it popped up....

I wonder if you could thread the hole in that V-PEEP to accept Lyman Sight Discs, or perhaps replace the top section of the V-PEEP with a piece of aluminum angle drilled and tapped for the Lyman discs.

Most likely you could ..RIGHTNOR was inventor of things like this he was unreal..he lived near me here in pa.sold his business as was getting older he could machine anything to work..

the V-PEEP he invented allowed us to use peep hunting as they were illegal now they are legal...Also his V-PEEP let light into the rear sight for hunting near dark..You may able to glue your idea in also just for target shooting then take it out for hunting but your thread idea ia could work also just cost of gunsmith is 22 dollars to do that plus sight so you could almost buy lyman peep sight new..

I have drills available if threads were right but I am thinking that your idea would work with some glue then remove it for deer hunting..or another cheap way to just stick something over hole some told me black electrical tape with pin hole on site or your glasses etc....

thanks for help keep it coming i am rusty on info for sure..lol..

I was surprised they still make V-PEEP....I mounted mine back behind the frizzen not where your original rear sight is had gunsmith drill hole there this puts it closer to my eye out farther it was too blurry ....

its under RMC V-PEEP ....

What you can do is go to the hardware store and see what thread size the peep is by trying different size bolts/screws.
Then, if you have access to a drill press, drill out your own aperture.
I like shooting a peep. I feel I can shoot it as well as a scope out to 50 yards.

going to try new .018 patch material on tuesday ..Will cut at muzzle ..cant show pic of my patchs they had black ring around ball and all around outside of patch was little cuts ..

you came back at the wrong time LOL. This place is collecting cob webs.

Sounds like some burrs in the bore.

yes, could not believe how long its been.Last year I FOUND fine a mark in bore 3/4 inch from muzz.about length of 370 maxi-ball.i thought it was lead but i do not think so.what caused that is beyond me .i started using the max-balls without bore butter on them at that time .before i never had ring around the bore in that spot .it does not look like lead it looks like its into rifling ..broke my heart to see that.so i used j b bore paste hoping it was lead but i do not believe it is..

what could cause that to happen 1 inch from muzz..cOULD DRY MAX-BALL CUT BORE...

Made up cayugad napa mix going to try his idea on cut patches at muzzle...will see what it does this week..

sproul...


I have shot Maxi's for years and I'm hear to tell ya, there's NO WAY a dry Maxi would gouge your bore. Even if you were using hard lead, (which you would would find very difficult to start) that wouldn't gouge your bore. My guesstimate is that you inadvertently scratched or gouged it with a jag while cleaning or loading.


BPS

sproul...


As for the issue of modifying your V-peep, I don't believe it will work out like you want it to. The V-peep is made of machined aluminum and there's not much material there to get some threads into on that blade. Further, I don't think the aperture, depending on what you choose, would be able to slide up and down the elevation ramp without interference. You would be better off to go with a Lyman tang peep or try to find one of the original T/C hunter style tang peeps but be prepared to pay dearly for it if you do.










Just my $.02...

BPS

Sproul - it's possible that it may be lead. I was shooting my Marlin Cowboy a couple weeks ago using hard cast lead bullets with a pretty stout load. I used Hoppe's Elite Lead and Copper fouling remover. Scrubbed the bore with a wet patch, let it set a bit then worked a brass brush through the bore. It took quite a while to get all the lead out of the bore. You could see the fine slivers of lead on the patches. And being that Maxis are a lot softer, lead fouling is a good possibility.

Good to hear ..For life of me I cannot figure out how it happen i thought it was LEAD build up from dry maxi-ball also ....It did show metal on my eye glass screw tool .Going to look at it again..

Going to look again i ran wire brush down it etc used j b bore paste also...1 inch from outside of muzzle .

Well 200 times with wire brush and 200 with J.B.BORE paste ..nothing .looks like a knife mark perfect circle with opening and 1 spot about 1/8 long chewed in real bright silver look with light on area.its about 2 inchs in from outside of muzzle...

still am stumped why its 2 inchs in ..what could have made circle like knife with some off it ..only shot maxi-balls and very few roundballs ..only thing down barrel has been short starter/ram rod over 45 years ..What could be so strong to cut into metal is beyond me and 2 inchs from outside?no way the maxi-ball could stop in that area when being pushed in and cause mark ..why would lead only build up in one spot in circle like knife cut ..I am lost on this and wore out pushing a brush in that many times..cut mark goes from lands across into grooves not just on lands...

WOW this is interesting topic...Learning a lot here.One of our members here[semisane] at this time feels I have RINGED BORE .....It is caused by not seating my Maxi-ball down on powder..THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED...You push it in with short starter and forget to push it down on powder..

So now is barrel ok to use for RB?Can bore paste or another way smooth down ring I can feel it with prob....

shooting rb
 

Well took the .50 cal hawkins out and this time made up patches with Moosemilk thing cut at muzz..
I saw big difference in seating the roundball to start.These were dry patch material..at 25 yards groups were good at 60/70 grains of 3 f..

only problem was burn holes thru patches at 70 grs of 3 f but not 60 grs..
Put a bore button behind the patch at 70 grs and no burn hole thru patches..

Question why did 70 grs of 3f burn hole thru patches..
Is using bore button ok with 70 grs....

I think the ringed bore spot is not affecting anything so far ..That is good ...

So getting there and very happy with Moosemilk with grinding oil and cut at muzz I can see a difference in groups..

next out too 50 yards..Question how high should the poi be at 50 yards I am up 5 inchs high at 50 and about 2 inchs at 25 yards..
I think thats high for buck hunting only out to around 80 yards max?Should I bring that down after I get my charge way it shoots best..60/70 grs not going to 80 grains cant stand kick/smoke over 70 grains..lol...

Sproulman, that 70 grain load should be giving you something like 1450 fps. If you sight it for a 75 yard zero it will be about 1.5" high at 25 yards, 2" high at 50 yards, dead on at 75 yards, and 4.5" low at 100 yards.

Those burn throughs with 70 grains are likely due to either the patch being a little too dry or the weave of the patch being a bit loose. What patch material are you using? You should not need a bore button with a patched ball over 70 grains of 3F GOEX.

How did the accuracy compare using 70 grains with the bore button and without the bore button?

Me thinks your patch is too dry too or too thin. Maybe your moose milk is too watery?
Take some and try thickening it up with bees wax, bore butter or crisco.

The patch pillow tick were just slightly damp I left them in sun..
Ptch material was from Wal-mart .018 pillow tick in blue and I washed them in machine as told before I put Moosemilk Napa grind oil on them.I was happy at how they went in vrs the ox-yoke .018 with preciesion oil ...ox-yoke was terrible had to use a hammer on my starter these I can punch in and nice and tight going in to charge after cutting at muzz...

at 25 yards without bore button the 60 grs touched and 70 grs were a little apart,then i used bore button and 70 grs tighten up ..70 grs had perfect circle with 2 holes in patch near circle put in bore button and the patch looked fine at 70 grs...I punch my own bore buttons with punch...It looked like at 60 grs the balls grouped better than the 70 grs at 25 yards but when I used the bore button at 70 grs groups got tighter....I know RB said never use 90 grs of 3f without a bore button but ok to use 50 grs without button..Too much kick at 90 grs and smoke ......


I am happy so far that it is shooting much better with 2 things moosemilk/cut at muzzle has helped...

I did not follow Cayugad ingredients like he said ..he said like 4 oz of napa grind oil i used 2 oz because i did not want a lot left over..but I cut the alcohal/murphys soap also in half to make less..Think I need to add few more ounces of oil?like 4 oz instead of 2 oz i did...

his was 4 oz napa ..Added 1 oz more of napa to what i had left and resoaking the pillow tick again then in sun.....
8oz alcohal
1 oz murphys soap
16 oz water

i cut those in half so i did not used as much..2oz oil, 4oz alcohal,1/2 oz soap,8oz of water...now using 3 oz of oil in what was left..Will try this out this week..