Question for you peep sight fellas...
 

Hello fellas...

I know many of you who've now visited this new traditional forum are flintlock (and sidelock percussion) shooters and many of you use peep sights on some of your rifles. Here in PA, for many years our traditional (flintlock only) season allowed OPEN iron sights only (no peeps allowed). It then progressed to open iron sights with fiber optic inserts allowed as long as the sights remained OPEN (no peeps). Now, and I believe it's been this way for the past two seasons, peep sights are allowed on flintlock rifles during our late, flint only, season.

Have any of you fellas ever mounted a peep on any of your flinters? If so, what are your thoughts on using a peep on a flintlock rifle? PA still considers our late ML season to be traditional and it's meant for flintlock ignition firearms only... but they're only stipulation now is that telescopic sights are not permitted. Your choice of open or peep sights is allowed.

I have several Renegade flinters. One of which has the earlier T/C tang with three screw holes which was meant to accommodate their peep style sights. For grins, I considered mounting a peep on it but have yet to do it.

If I do, what are some of your recommendations? I know the original T/C hunter style peeps are getting extremely hard to find, and sell for WAY more than they're worth IMO. I've heard that the Lyman SML is a good peep but is it compatible with T/C's existing tapped holes? If so... how's the availability on them nowadays? Do you need to remove any wood as well or do they sit nicely alongside the Renegade's stock?

And I appreciate any/all comments from all members in advance. Idahoron... I know you have them on your rifles... are you out there Bud?

BPS

Have you checked for the Williams peep? I know I saw one for a CVA octagon barrel but you might get lucky.

MD...

I'm not looking to barrel mount the peep. If I choose to do it at all I'll mount one on the tang.

BPS

It is going to take me some time to remember we have this forum, I do appreciate. I have Lyman SML peeps on several guns. I can't comment on a flinter but I can shed light on putting one on. The tang must be drilled for it to work. This is not as hard as you would think. When I drill them I take a piece of Masking tape and I lay it on the tang. I line it so one edge goes through the center of the front and back hole in the tang. Then I lay the sight base on and mark where it needs to be drilled. Then I thread it and it should be good to go. I have only messed one up. I welded it shut and drilled it again. Please forgive the plastic stock.



After I get that drilled and tapped I do one of two things. I either remove some of the metal from the back side of the sight like this.







By using a angle grinder I can do that pretty quick. I have done a couple like that.

I also have made a spacer for them. In this picture you can see the spacer under the sight. I made it out of aluminum and filed it to be tapered. I did that so the elevator would move more vertical. I also wanted to get a little more distance with this gun. So giving it a spacer allowed me to get a little farther out.



The SML fits better on a Hawken than it does a Renegade but they are not hard to get fitted.
In my opinion the peep sight is a great one but a Lyman 17 AML globe sight with a Lee Shavers insert is the thing that gives me the most accuracy.




I can aim at a milk jug at 150 yards and focus on hitting the label. I was about 1" high on hitting the label.



The thing that I think is the one thing that the Lyman 57SML brings to the table is the ability to use a range finder get the range and set the sight for that shot at hand. Once I set my sight to do this I find that I am MUCH more accurate at all ranges out to 300 yards. This three shot group is interesting. I had two shots at 150 and then I moved to 100. I changed the sight and shot the 100 yard shot.




Lastly the slider or "elevator " can be removed to put in your pocket for safe keeping. You push a single button and slide it out. That is the same button I use to slide it to the different yard marks.
In this picture you can see how I have my elevation marks made. Just to the left of the 0- you can see a button. You push it to the right and it releases the slider.



I don't have to twist the knob to raise or lower the sight. Just push the button and slide it. Now the Williams FP sight you have to twist the knob. It is not as quick at the lyman and it is not really able to remove it if your going to put the gun in a scabbard on an ATV or horse.
I have both and the Lyman pee with the lyman globe and Lee Shavers inserts are the best sight I have found for my style of shooting.

Barry - I have peeps on all my sidelocks both flinters and cap locks. I have 3 styles. The T/C 7194, Lyman 57 and williams (model ??). I find I can shoot much more accurately with them. And a plus with me being a lefty is that the peep blocks a lot of the flash from my flinter and I can shoot those better than without one.
I'm sending you a PM.

Ron...

Very informative post, I appreciate that. I do have one Renegade Flinter that has a 3-hole tang, that's why I was toying with the idea of a peep. I have one of The T/C 7194 (I believe) on a Hawken .50 percussion rifle with the Lyman front globe and inserts. I have yet to play around with it, but probably will have it dialed in before another season. Might be a good one to use in our early ML season when we're allowed to use both percussion and flint.

bronko...

Thanks...I'll get back with you on that.

BPS

I have peeps on most of my sidelocks also, including two Great Plains flintlocks. They work so much better with my eyes that regular open sights would be a distant second choice.

I have a Merit optical attachment instead of a peep sight. It is essentially am aperture sight that mounts to your glasses with a small suction cup and attached to the suction cup is an aperture sight that can be adjusted to your eye. I bought it for handgun hunting because I didn't want a scope on my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt. It works well and is less expensive than installing an aperture sight on your Flintlock rifle. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/978...th-suction-cup

Oldtimr...

That's kinda unique... don't know how it would fair in inclement weather. Did you remove the rear sight on your Blackhawk? Does this thing act as a rear sight or does it just help you focus on your existing sights? Not sure I understand how it works other than giving you a non-adjustable hole to see through...

I can see me folding it into position only to find it's crusted over with ice or snow during our flintlock season here... I could always slip a cover over a peep if necessary.

BPS

It makes the front sight clear and takes the place of the rear sight although you can still look through the rear sight. Since the front sight being in focus is what is important it makes a huge difference in being able to shoot with confidence. It does the same thing as an installed peep sight and that is making your focus clear when looking through a small hole, you really should not be focusing on your rear sight anyway, it is just to line you up with your front sight. Rear sight blurry, front sight clear. Just a suggestion to save you money and keep your flintlock traditional.

If that's the case I should be able to shoot like a Marine Sniper! LOL! At my age my rear sights are getting fuzzier each year but the front sight is still clear. I seemed to remember that there was evidence of some our ancestors having to have the rear sight moved forward toward the muzzle on their barrels for this reason in order to maintain a sharp sight picture. Anyone else ever heard/read that?

BPS

For me I started out using a peep on a Bow. Back then as an instructor I told guys to focus on where you wanted to hit and let the pin be slightly blury on the sight. I now do the same thing with my ML. I have a tiny lee shavers pin in there. So I can focus HARD on the spot I want to hit. Most gun instructors want the shooter to focus on the front sight. I can't . I have to focus on the animal and where I want that bullet to hit.

Ron I'm with you on that. Now my cousin was a NRA instructor and an expert handgun shot and he taught his 'students' to focus on the front sight leaving the target fuzzy. His reasoning was logical because they were shooting at a fixed target (wasn't moving).
As hunters we have to focus on our target and leave the front sight a bit fuzzy because our 'target' may move. I tend to switch back and forth when shooting at an animal right until the last second when I focus on the spot on the animal.
The set up on your Hawken makes for accurate shooting under your hunting conditions in the open country but I don't think it would benefit me here in the east's heavy cover. I'm not sure it would allow for quick target acquisition so I'm a bit hesitant to try it.

bronko...

So then your saying you don't have peeps mounted on any of the flinters you hunt with?

BPS

Semi,

Do you hunt with either of the flinters you have peeps on? I know your Louisiana woodlands don't look like our Eastern Hardwood forests but they both have varying degrees of dense cover. Have you found any difficulty using a peep for your hunting situations?

I only have one Renegade flinter that has a 3-screw tang. I actually have two flinters that have a 3-screw tang but I have no intention of drilling and tapping my .45 Hawken. The Renegade's the one I was toying with mounting a peep on. I'd rather not drill and tap the Hawken... it was my first flintlock purchased new in '76.

BPS

I do hunt with my peep sighted flinters BPS, and with two peep sighted caplocks (GM barreled TC Hawkens in .50 and .58). I don't have any difficulty with them in even thick pine woods with any reasonable light. Peeps do suffer during that golden time just after first light in the morning and right at dusk. Though it may still be legal shooting hours and you can see the game well enough to identify it, you can't see the front sight well through the peep to place the shot. I fix that little difficulty with my sight light, which goes on the barrel during those brief periods. http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ight-dusk.html

Semi,

I can fully understand that. I had PM'd bronko earlier with regard to how each other's late ML season went this month and told him that the only opportunity I had was the day after New Year and I had a deer come in within the last ten minutes of legal shooting time. I could see the deer where it was standing, it was less than 40 yards from me, but I just couldn't see my sights well enough to make a shot. Not to mention that I couldn't positively identify if it was a doe or a young buck (I only had a doe tag left) so I would not have shot either way...

I was in the woods, maybe if I was sitting in the open on a field edge or similar it would have been OK... I'd rather not take chances.

BPS

DO the light turn on and off?

The way peep work is your eye centers on it's own. When you use the globe in the front your eye centers the peep and the globe. I shot this deer with almost no light.




He was hit and broke out on the run through the bottom of a canyon in heavy cover. The range was under 50 yards. My load is about the same speed as my shotgun load. I just went into "auto pilot" my eye centered both the peep and the globe I never saw the globe insert. I swung on it like a chukar and touched it off. I have found that the only time I have had trouble with these sites was over 50 yards and right at the last seconds of light.

This year I was trying to shoot a burnt stump at 200 yards in the last moments of light. If that would have been a animal I would have been out of luck. I have started to hunt more heavy cover and so far it has worked.

I just use crummy old browned primitive buckhorn and front blade sights.

Can't see a thing, but I use them anyway.


Nobody said mountain men were that bright. I don't need precise sights anyway. The gun is so heavy I can't keep it shouldered for more than 2-3 seconds. :confused0024:

Yes Ron, they can be turned on and off with ease. Used as I use them they last for years.

NO - All my sidelocks have peeps. What I was referring to is the hooded front sights that come with the various apertures. Target sights if you will. I'm pretty sure that is what Ron has on his hot rod Hawken.

With most peeps you can unscrew the aperture and have somewhat of a ghost ring in low light conditions. But like Ron said, your eye automatically centers in the peep so shooting with both eyes open makes it easy to see what you're shooting at.

Idahoron; What size drill and tap is that?

It was a #29 drill bit and a 8-32 tap.