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Is my guns and loads acceptable topics here?

Traditional Muzzleloading Forum Firearm Types open for discussion: Pre-Flintlock, Flintlock, & Side-lock Percussion. Smoothbores, Muskets, Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols & BP Revolvers, only

Is my guns and loads acceptable topics here?

Old 01-17-2016, 09:21 AM
  #31  
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You're talking about strict rendezvous Ron. Those guys are over the top. I wasn't talking about those, and would never go to one.

I'm talking about the average black powder shoot. It's just a shoot, but they try to simulate an early 1800's shoot. You can dress up in period clothing if you want to, but it's not required. About 75% do.

There are rules to what you shoot though. PRB only, no peeps, No FO sights, BP is wanted, but some will use Pyro. Sidelocks, blued, wood.

I like PC, but not HC. HC is what the picky guys want, and will check your buttons. PC is just period correct. If the gun you're using used it, then so can you. I don't want to make believe i'm living in 1840. I just want to use a similar weapon as close to the original as possible. Then carry it further by using everything else related to shooting and loading the gun as possible to the era. Powder horn, fixed powder measure, cutting patches at muzzle etc.

That's my definition of a traditional. Whether it's shooting at a range, hunting, or a forum.
You may not agree, but it doesn't matter to me. It's my definition.
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:41 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MountainDevil54
thats why rules must be set.

Traditional muzzle loading is a limited section of the muzzle loading forum which has limits in what is and what is NOT allowed!

Allowed:
Period Correct muzzle loading arms
Modern Traditional Percussion/Flintlock Muzzle loading arms "Plastic stock/ramrod/stainless steel barrels"
Black Powder and Black Powder Substitute Powders
Round Ball & Lead Conical Projectile discussions only!
Open, iron or peep sights
Under Hammer design is Ok

Not Allowed:
Inline rifles
Sabots
Scopes
Pellets
Smokeless Powder
Blackhorn209 Powder
Handgun/Rifle Primers
209 shotshell primers
Jacketed Bullets
Plastic infused conical bullets (plastic ballistic tip and/or base) Example, Powerbelts, Hornady FPB, Federal BOR.

If your traditional arm uses any of the items on our "Not Allowed" list, Please use our regular black powder section of the forum for all your discussions when using those items.

--------

Now see that above? If you want to use any of the not allowed items, use the regular black powder forum. It works fine for members on GBO forum.
MD,

I totally agree with what you've stated and believe they are fair and appropriate guidelines for our "Traditional" forum. I agree with some of you that this is not a traditional forum in a sense, but then how many of you out there are indeed traditionalists? I for one am not, never claimed to be. There are forums out there in cyberspace that will accommodate you if that's your thing.

I left the original forum with no intention of coming back because I was so sick and tired of the petty arguments that arose because two different groups of muzzleloading enthisiasts were thrown into the pit together under a banner called "Black Powder" and we all saw how that progressed. I held discussions with the MODS (as some others did) concerning what could be done to turn things around. I also stated to them that unless I saw a positive change I wouldn't be back. A number of members contacted me by PM and agreed that something has to be done or this site was going to continue it's downward spiral.

Well here it is boys...he MODS worked to give us OUR OWN forum and I believe it's definitely a positive change which will help this site grow. Furthermore, I don't feel that we need to be purists or HC about anything here either. The guidelines MD has suggested are more than fair IMO but if some of you disagree, contact MD by PM and discuss it as gentlemen rather than provoking an unnecessary argument. The MODS are basically allowing us to build this forum to suit our collective thoughts and likes.

So if you want to discuss scoping your sidelock or the advantages/disadvantages of using a saboted projectile in your sidelock, etc., there are lots of members on the regular forum that will be happy to break bread with ya...

BPS
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:51 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by idahoron
In my opinion there is a HUGE difference between HC/PC and traditional. I honestly feel that a TC Hawken/Renegade is traditional. It is NOT HC/PC in any way. I honestly feel a Peep is a Traditional sight but I don't feel that a Lyman 57 is HC/PC. I know for a fact that paper patching bullets is traditional in a sense that paper patching has been around since the middle of the 1860's. But Paper patching a pistol bullet is not HC/PC.
I think a lot of people get their underwear in a bunch because something is not traditional and they really are pushing a HC/PC agenda.

I disagree with you when you say "One easy way to see if you're really traditional is to go to a fairly strict black powder shoot and see if your gun and ammo would be allowed to shoot."

The guys that are at what you call " a fairly strict black powder shoot" are not traditional at all and would be offended if you call them that. They are in fact HC/PC bunch that are more impressed with the HC/PC lifestyle. Most of them care little about shooting. They do shoot some but most of them are about living the life. Those guys would look at a Lyman rifle and laugh you out of camp.

There are also guys in the HC/PC group that look at a button on a man's pants and says it is not correct and want him ejected from the camp.
Their shoots offer points on your head gear. They offer points on the type of shirt you wear, and the type of cloth used.

I don't want to be involved in groups, guys, or web sites with guys like that.

You know they talk about being about "traditional" on a web page using a computer or an Iphone. So really how "traditional" are they?

I know a guy that joined the American Mountain Men (AMM). they have a fairly strict set of rules. You have to do a survivor kind of set of initiation objectives to be able to join. They sound rather difficult but the guy I know cheated on every one and became a member. That guy has a lot of money so he buys his HC/PC gear from guys that cater to "dudes". Then He brags about his accomplishments as a Mountain Man while he takes his deer to the butcher to be cut and wrapped.
Very well put Ron...

Glad to see that you're hanging in there with us! I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for what you've done to take a sidelock muzzleloading firearm and make a deadly long range shooter out of it without the aid of a scope, saboted projectile, supersonic powder or some other modern implement. Just good ol' country boy ingenuity!

BPS
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Old 01-17-2016, 02:23 PM
  #34  
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So, after reading the debates on here of what constitutes a traditional muzzle loader I decided to play the devils advocate just as a reminder. "The original inline design was conceptualized as far back as 1808. Jean Samuel Pauley patented a system in which the cock of the sidelock was replaced by a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring. His system was then expanded upon by Johann Nicolaus von Dreyse who developed the Dreyse Needle gun that was adopted by the German military in 1871." Traditional firearms is merely interpreted as to which time period one wishes to use or reenact. Now I am not knit picking fellers I totally understand what is meant by traditional muzzleloaders and I believe Ron's hot rod should be acceptable or the only ones discussed should specific time period correct in which they represent. So we could eventually eliminate everyone from this forum. Now the useless rhetoric I have written isn't really worth discussing. It surely would not encourage or support anyone in my personal opinion. Hope y'all enjoyed my devils advocate performance.
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Old 01-17-2016, 02:57 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Slowburn
So, after reading the debates on here of what constitutes a traditional muzzle loader I decided to play the devils advocate just as a reminder. "The original inline design was conceptualized as far back as 1808. Jean Samuel Pauley patented a system in which the cock of the sidelock was replaced by a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring. His system was then expanded upon by Johann Nicolaus von Dreyse who developed the Dreyse Needle gun that was adopted by the German military in 1871." Traditional firearms is merely interpreted as to which time period one wishes to use or reenact. Now I am not knit picking fellers I totally understand what is meant by traditional muzzleloaders and I believe Ron's hot rod should be acceptable or the only ones discussed should specific time period correct in which they represent. So we could eventually eliminate everyone from this forum. Now the useless rhetoric I have written isn't really worth discussing. It surely would not encourage or support anyone in my personal opinion. Hope y'all enjoyed my devils advocate performance.
Copied and pasted from above in case you may not have noticed it...

Traditional Muzzleloading Forum Firearm Types open for discussion: Pre-Flintlock, Flintlock, & Side-lock Percussion. Smoothbores, Muskets, Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols & BP Revolvers, only

Leonardo DaVinci developed a tank much prior to their inception as we know it if that's where you're going with this... just a comparison.

BPS

Last edited by Blackpowdersmoke; 01-17-2016 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-17-2016, 03:58 PM
  #36  
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When you guys finally get to what you feel is a workable, fair set of rules for your forum PM me. I may not be on line all that much to catch a posted request. ICE is in and I'll be fishing every day that I can. You guys are doing an excellent job of moderating yourselves. Keep it up and thanks.
CI
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:08 PM
  #37  
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CI, I pmed BPS about the rules and he agreed with them. I think they are fair and should preserve the traditional aspect yet allow others with poorer eye sight that need fiber optics to see their target or plastic stocked guns due to their popularity/price.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:09 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Blackpowdersmoke
Very well put Ron...

Glad to see that you're hanging in there with us! I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for what you've done to take a sidelock muzzleloading firearm and make a deadly long range shooter out of it without the aid of a scope, saboted projectile, supersonic powder or some other modern implement. Just good ol' country boy ingenuity!

BPS
Thanks a lot. The idea for me was to have a combination that for all practical purposes would be legal in every state and I would not feel like I was behind the 8 ball with inlines.
I for one am glad you stayed. When I heard that you might be out the door I was not going to be far behind you. I still have a couple inlines and will visit the other one but this one is now my go to.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:27 PM
  #39  
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Yes Ron I believe the members of this site have the best of both worlds at their disposal now with regards to the forums.

BPS
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:08 PM
  #40  
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Well it that's the way the majority wants it I have no complaints. I will only post, report and discuss topics about my PRB shooters which are my .58 Renegade and my new coming .54 Pedersoli. My .50 Hawken PRB shooter will likely be sold when I get back to PA in May.
My other fast twist Hawkens and Renegades are great sabot/jacket bullets shooters and will not be discussed here as per the guidelines.
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