Deepest apolagy's
 

I Think I may have overstepped some sort of traditional code. You see I shot a mountain lion With a COMPOUND bow and I posted it on the tradgang board and I believe here to , I was excited that it is going in both books and I felt that you guys would like to see it. after talking archery with many of you I felt you all were my friends. If any of you frequent the Tradgang board please pass this along as I did not mean any bad will. I am truly sorry for the misunderstanding. I recieved the following from the trad gang admin and I am no longer welcome on there board [&o] Though you never did say what bow you used to kill yer P&Y/B&C cat, you
knew that Trad Gang is strictly about traditional bowhunting gear, yet you
still posted about your compound kill without mentioning the weapon you
employed. Your Trad Gang post was deceitful at best and we don't at all
appreciate what you did to the membership and traditional bowhunting.

You have been deleted from the Trad Gang membership. You are not allowed
to return. We will inform the Trad Gang membership about the details of
your post.


Rob.
Trad Gang Admin
www.TradGang.com

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

They did the same some time back to a fella - a pretty famous traditional archer and bowyer - who shot a caribou or some such with a rifle and wrote it up in 'Traditional Bowhunter Magazine' without mentioning he'd used a rifle. I don't think you're nearly as guilty of a fau pax as he was, but feelings are still pretty tender about it.

Yep, you shoulda mentioned you shot it with a compound instead of a stick, but it didn't deal a crushing blow to MY world. ;) Congrats on the hunt.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

I posted it and said I shot it with a compound and the mods deleted it The whole post that is and said this tis trad only. If this is how its going to be maybe traditional archery is not for me. I am new to it and just bought my first recurve I never new It was such a eletist sport. I feel I should just stay with the compound. I am not good enought to hang with this crowed

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich, this is Whitehair from Tradgang. I posted your dilema, take a look if you can. I am sure many others will find this as stupid as I do, and we will try to get you back.

Congrts on the cat, regardless of what you used to take it...

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

As I said bud I just started trad And just boaught a recurve. Hnever hunted trad But I will I did post I shot it with a compound , Hell I was just excited It made the books. Thats all. They are makeing me out to be some sort of liar, Hell I got two witnesses that saw the stalk and ecverything. I think I know why people never talk about large tropheys. Thanks for posting for me. Cheers Rich

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

IMHO: big frickin' deal.

Giving you the boot sure is a good way to bring new archers into the fold. I wouldn't sweat it, you yourself said that you didn't have the confidence (yet) to hunt with trad gear so you went with what you know. It's not like you tried to pass it off on some record keeping organization as a curve/longbow kill. There is no club membership required to shoot our bows, nobody can pull your "card" and boot you out, and I think (hope) that we're grown up enough, tolerant enough, at this site for it to not be an issue. I think you'll find more than a few refugees from other sites where mod's got a hair up their behinds because something offended their view of the world.

Good going on the cat- any body who's ever chased one knows what a grunt it can be to run one down.

RC

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

I dont blame you one bit, if the compound was the weapon you felt you needed in your hand, than who can?

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

The thing the p's me off the most is they say I decieved them I had posted it was a compound kill in october?????? I just was saying it made the books and was proud of that It was my first entry [:@] I think there is a cat lover over there who didn't like the fact I shot a cat.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Another thing that gets me about this whole thing is I thought they all new I shot it with a compound never saw a post asking me otherwise???? I tell anybody that asks what I shot it with. I just dont get it???? never said I took it with a trad bow and said it was a compound more than once in other posts. and now I am some sort of decever!!!! I even apolagised to the mods??? so whats the deal? I read one over there that there has to be more to the story! I agree I just wish I knew what it was???

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich,

From what I am reading on Tradgang there wasn't a probelm with your choice of equipment, but in the subsequent posts after your initial post about killing the cat. Most all threads are pulled that talk about a kill that wasn't trad related, that's why your first thread was pulled and why it's called Tradgang. In the following threads about your cat, the question was asked of you several times about what equipment was used to make the kill and it SEEMS (notice I said seems) that you never did give an answer when asked. I am new to traditional archery as well, and your talk of the eliteists at Tradgang is utterly incorrect. Tradgang has been a wealth of knowledge for me over the past few months and I have learned more there than all of the other trad sites on the web combined, becasue of the genuine mentoring attitude of the people there who are always willing to answer questions no matter how elementary they may seem.

Congratulations on the cat, it is a true trophy and I don't think that the admins at TG are saying it's not, but it wasn't taken with trad equipment and that is what that site is there for, nothing eliteist about that.

Take care,

M Shane Engelkes
new traditional hunter

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Well now No one gave me a chance to say anything . I have not been to that thread in a while I did not know that there was a question about what it was shot with. I posted this cat on there before and Told everyone what I shot it with>> the admin. are makeing the stink its just bull. I just was happy I got in the books. I can't believe the way I have been trashed over there. Somone should have PM 'd me and asked for clarification>>> This suck's I never ment to decieve anyone!!!!! Im done with all this trad BS going back to wheelbows forever you people Are to holy for me

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

First off, congrats on the cat. I would love to do that some time.

Dont portray all trad shooters as being elitists. I shoot trad, and also shoot compound. Big deal, I dont think I am better than anyone because I shoot a longbow. Some people take things to the extreme on their views. Dont let them get you down.

I also had a post pulled on that board. I simply asked a question what a hide was worth that I had. I recieved no less than 4 emails from the admin telling me that I was a commercial fur salesman, and was not welcome to post on the board. I never offered the hide for sale, only asked what it was worth. There was another thread in the same forum from one of the "old timers" asking the same question about a hide he had, and there were lots of offers and deals going on in the thread, but that was allowed to stay.

If you get a chance, I would like to hear the story on your cat, and see some pics. Congrats again.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Kip sent you a pm with the pics and what not. you are right your all not bad but If you went to that site and didn't intend for it to be taken that way and All the sudden everyone is calling you a liar and that you decieved them >>> WHICH I DID NOT!!!! you would be a little po'ed to. All it would have took is one stinkin pm I mean dang ( If this was the old west I would have been hung before I could explain) I don't check every post I make everyday Man They must all just sit at the computer I have to work.. I check whats new and move on. This hole thing stinks. I'll tell you what tic's me off the admin is lieing to the members trashing Me some buch of guys they are. Good old boy net work and that is what will be the end of hunting . that is what the anti's like to see devid and split it into small groups so when the vote comes out you will get clobbered at the poles . IE the next vote you will see a push to outlaw trad gear. And the wheel bow guys will be all for it , more for them right. the it'll be bow hunting altogether , and the rifle guys will say great more for me the its the end. it's comming. you watch. it has already happened to trapping. Hunter didn't want there dogs caught in a trap so the heck withthe trappers. Here They come boys. just watch. very sad world we live in when you got pic on the new guy

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich, I understand your aggravation, believe me. I can see some of the moderator's side, but in my opinion they went way overboard, taking everything the most negative way possible. Don't judge us all by the tiny sampling there. I've talked to some of those guys several times over the years, met some of them too. I like the board for the most part, but the inconsistency of how the rules are enforced really bugs me. I know it can be hard to keep up with everything that goes on, and I know how hard it can be to enforce a rule when a buddy is bending or breaking it, but rules are rules and should be enforced on an even keel.

I didn't see all of what you, or anyone else posted there--I didn't look because I'd already gotten the full story via e-mail (thanks!).

From what I have seen, and what I do know, I don't think any apology is needed here. You shot a fine animal, and have every right to be proud of your accomplishment.

Don't let anyone's attitudes or ignorance drive you away from a great sport. Given a little time, hopefully the mess will get sorted out. In the meantime, you are more than welcome here.

Chad

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Chad You are a true friend< !!! I respect you very much. and you are always welcome at my camp fire. I like this board I just wish more people posted here. The guys that posted on this thread are good people. I just wish there were more like you guys, To heck with the Tradgang . You guys are great!!! Again sorry if I over stepped my bound I was just so darn Proud

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Wow chad I read what you wrote over there .Thanks But I think they have already hung me. ope they don't ban you . I may have to send you a beer LOL

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Wasn't sure you could still access the site (I was banned from one years ago, and couldn't even read it), so I e-mailed you with what I wrote. I don't think I'll get banned, but if I do I'll deal with it.

Sometimes I wish this board got more traffic, but sometimes I'm glad it doesn't. Being smaller keeps it more personal, and helps avoid cliques forming--that hurts a lot of boards, I think. We've got some well seasoned guys that are loaded with information here, so we aren't hurting in that department. Might not have as much to read, but you can find out what you need to know just as well.

Chad

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Thanks again Chad !!! Just tic's me off the way they!! are makeing it sound over there and I can do notheing but read that trash many of those people belive what has been said and I have no recourse. sucks!! if it were true I wouldn't give a rip id just go hang my head in shame but this is a good old fashioned linching. those Mod suck they should have just sent me a pm but they didn't. I think there must have been more to this. somebody didn't like the dead Kitty or something. who know but all those sheep will just keep on keepin on.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich I think you got a bum rap on that deal to! You did post what type of bow was used on other threads there. I read and enjoyed the story and knew full well that a compound was used. Keep your chin up.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Thanks buddy , Hows them chek-mates treating you??? lucky S#$t

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

They never let ya down. I have a new Attila on the way as we speak to try out.[8D]:eek:

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Even with all this crap going on ( MERRY CHRISTMAS ) by the way I can't wait to shoot my falcon. Thank for the support on the tradgang, I wish they would have let me in on all this befor they screwed me. I am damn sure checking every post I make from now on so this don't happen again.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

For real don't sweat it. Oct. 25 page 5 stalking tips from too short was the thread title and it is still there with the pic and all. They dropped the ball and you are getting the penalty. It happens now and then. Everyone posting and moderating is just human there will be screwups all the time. On both sides. You will like your falcon ( when ya get it LOL )

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

I am going to sodamize a grizzly with it and have someone post a pic on tradgang for me HEHElol

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

I shouldn't talk like that One to many beers tonight, Alaskan amber al MMMMMMm.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

For what it's worth Rich, I saw your original post WITH compound- thought to myself-"That post aint gonna last." And it didn't.

I feel Tradgang's admin overreacted- had they done their homework BEFORE they banned you this whole matter could have been resolved amicably.

They have now painted themselves into a corner, and can't back down for fear of losing face.

We can ALL take umbrage from the following quote by Mark Twain: "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't have time to make them yourself."

Jakes.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

In response to what Kip said about having his thread pulled- a similar thig happened to me. A friend in South Africa wants to market his game farm in the US, and would like to know what US hunters expect from a hunt in Africa. I posted a thread to this effect, and had it pulled within 24 hours for being commercial. OK, fair enough. There is a commercial element to that- but I sure wasn't going to make a bean out of it, and there was NO free advertising in my post- no names or numbers given.

What cheeses me off was that a day later another post appeared advertising paid hunting in South Africa, not only did the mods allow it to stay, some actually replied to it.

So, yeah, Tradgang is a great resource, and there are some really great people posting there. But they do have double standards- you'll just have to deal with it.

Anyway Rich, hope we don't lose you. Look at the bright side- trad bows are cheap, and don't many accessories- you'll be able to buy MANY bows now.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Trad Gang is a Trad only forum and they're very picky about it. Their perrogative to do so I guess.

There is a sense of elitism in trad hunting. I've struggled with shooting longbows and recurves for 3 years now. I actually went back to compound 6 weeks ago on a KS hunt because I lost faith in my ability to shoot accurately. I made a post on the Tradgang about it and they allowed it, encouraged me, never talked about thread deletion or anything.

I didn't read any threads on your big cougar so I don't know what was said, what wasn't etc. It appears they saw your posts as a traditional kill and when they found out it wasn't, you were banned for lying.

Saddest thing ? Anyone reading about this after the fact sees you as a bit deceitful in your hunting practices, not knowing anyting other than whats been posted on the Tradgang and here.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

The fact is if they admit they trashed me and told the truth they would have to ban them selfes especialy Nubo. That guy started all of this. All any of them had to do is send me a PM.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich first let me post congrats on your cat! Second let me tell the comments I will make are from a fellow Trad Ganger who has been "banned" and should not to be taken personal. If you tried to deceive or not seems to be a mute point. The "preception" is there that you did and TG took it personal! Perception is every thing as I found out when I made comments about one of the personell over there. Comments were not made in public but in email exchanged about a laser sight I tried to sell on the Trad Blanket. I was wrong to amke the comments and got the boot. I'm good at leting my mouth over load my @$$. Any way we both have to be man enough to admit we did wrong and take our lumps. I did. I have apologized but the apology has fallen on deaf ears so far. So be it. I will survive. You at least have a nice big cat to show for your banning. I have nothing but good memories from TG. With any weaknesses it might have it is a good site. Best of luck to you in your hunting no matter what you have in your hand. I have said it before and will continue to say it is not the equipment in the hunters hand but what is in his heart that makes him a eithical hunter.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Cob, I have admited It was not trad killed . the thing that steams me Is they publicaly hung me without even so much as a e-mail asking the very question they hung me for. I am not ashamed in any way shap or form of how the cat was killed and would have set the record straight. The truth is I didn't go back and read the following post's I was never pm'd and asked the question. And then I was called a deciever and a lier. That is what makes me mad. They can ban me for posting a wheel bow pic But don't make up **** for affect. I never decieved anybody over there. I told on every thread prior to this one I killed it with a Compound.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

wow, didnt see this till just now.

Congrats on the cat!!!


Arthur,

What Ted did was not only a lie and deciet full. It was also quite ILLEGAL! Nothing short of poaching! He deserved to be banned for it.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

No argument there, Lilhunter. My point was not so much about Ted as about the raw wound his escapade has left on the traditional community. Rich seems to have gotten caught up in some kind of 'zero tolerance' kneejerk reaction. When emotions get the upper hand over intellect, stuff like this happens.[&o]

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Groucho Marx said it best:

"I wouldn't belong to any club that wouldn't have me as a member."

Trad Gang's loss if you ask me . They shouldn't have banned you for a simple mistake , especially without a warning . I thought about signing up there , maybe not .

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Actually, what Groucho Marx said was "I do not wish to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.";)

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich I see you were allowed to post an apology. Dose that mean you arre not banned?

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Yes they reserch a little more and saw that i did indead post many times about takeing the cat with a compound. I guess it really isnt there fault. I was guilty of posting a non trad kill The way it went down was just ugly insted of e-mailing asking for clarification they just railroaded me. its a big site and they got a hard job. Maybe the next time this happens to a nubee they may look into it a little more. I am glad this aint the old west. I learned a lot out of this to I need to follow up on threads and read the posts. I need to follow the rules to the letter. And Never jump to conclutions with out proof. I feel sorry I got so mad at the mods as they were kinda clueless about the other posts. I took it for granted that everybody new it was a wheel bow kill( BIG MISTAKE) Hey I learned alot about bragging to . ( Dont) this reminds me of the rompala buck. the guy shoots a truly huge Deer everybody goes out to discredit him so he pulls it out of the public light and never registered it so now every one say's see I told you it was fake But it's not. Jelousy is deadly trophy animals spark this. I am not saying I am the greatest hunter But i GOT DARN LUCKY :D Sadly this has probley turned into a almost unsalvageable relationship there I hope it will be well recieved as I truly didn't intend for it to be taken the way it was.

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Good deal Rich--glad that mess is squared away. Like I said, I know some of those guys and of those I know most are good guys. I still wish they would get on an even keel with the rule enforcement but, it's not my call so I'll just fuss in the background.

Chad

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

I think after this go around they will tighten up a bit and maybe not reacted so fast and find out more before they do. I still cant believe all that happened. Glad its over

RE: Deepest apolagy's
 

Rich,
First of all I want to say congrats on the cat. I personally don't hunt cats but that’s not what’s in question here, is it?

Second, life is too short to sweat the small stuff. If you had your picture in a traditional magazine and were holding a longbow when you used a compound to kill the cat - THEN I'd be PO'd - but you didn't. Its kinda hard for any Moderator (or Member) to prove 'intent' as I see it. I may be wrong, and I'm sure others may not agree with me, but...

Third, having hunted and shot all kinds of bows and currently hunting with only traditional gear - I do understand and am sympathetic about modern gear vs. traditional gear. I can see both sides of the coin. Traditional archers take great pride in the fact that we CHOOSE to hunt with a stickbow w/o the proliferation of sights, rests, do-dads of all imaginable types, etc. However, I'm not ready nor feel any of us are in a true position to crucify you for your mistake.

Live and learn. All the Moderators needed to do was to move the thread to another area if they were concerned with the misplacement of its nature...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is my motto...

Lets move on & Happy Holidays!