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mysticguido

Well The Fitzgerald's Dan & Guy..shoot trad, they seem to be good at it. But you know everyone has their opinion....Wounder if Byron thinks He is good or not ???? hmmmmmmmm[>:]

Arthur P

Actually, that comment isn't original to him. That one comes from Howard Hill. In all honesty, I agree. Put a good gap shooter and a good instinctive shooter on the field archery range and give 'em scorecards. The gap shooter will flat clobber the instinctive shooter.

Put 'em in the woods, potting squirrels and rabbits at 15 yards, the instinctive shooter will be busy cleaning his game while the gap shooter is likely to be stuck in the drive thru at Mickey D's.

LBR

I think it's one of, if not the best instructional books available. I don't agree with the part about wood arrows--he wrote it several years ago, and good wood wasn't available then or he just didn't know where to look--and I don't use the same technique he does, but over-all it's an easy, interesting read with loads of good information.

On "instinctive" shooting, it depends on what your definition of instinctive is. Aside from snap shooters, most folks don't shoot 100% instinctive. Conciously or not, most of use use the arrow for a referance and gap to some degree. I don't conciously look at the arrow, but I know I do use it because my shooting changes if I shoot in the dark at a lighted target--takes me a few shots to adjust.

I can say I've never seen a really good, consistent snap shooter. Fred Asbell is probably the best known for shooting and teaching this method, and I have noticed in his video that even he isn't consistent with his anchor. You don't see him taking any long shots in it either, or shooting at a definate target. Only groups in hay bales at short distances. Some do better at it than others, and I've heard of one or two that were supposed to be very good and snap shot, but I haven't seen it myself. Fred's approach bugs me, regardless of his style--in my opinion he goes around the block to get you across the street. Ferguson is much more direct in his approach, and I like that. Ricky Welch's video (Volume II) is pretty good, and has some good information in it as well. Again, I don't agree with everything in it, but the good outweighs the bad I think. He says he is an instinctive shooter, but he's not a snap shooter. He's very deliberate in his style, just as Ferguson is.

Before I get completely carried away, back to the question. Yep, I like it.

Chad

IrishLad32

When I first started shooting traditional I thought "instinctive shooting" was shooting without the aid of external devices like sight pins. Then I went to the Leatherwall and got a rude awakening. If there's anything they like to beat to death over there it's the ol' what's instinctive, what's not. Depending on how you define "instinctive shooting," it has it's place.
Snap shooting is another term people like to beat to death. I always thought snap shooting was just a real quick shot. Lowandbehold, the trad police found me guilty of that as well. Apparently a snap shot is an out of control shot, regardless of whether it's fast or slow. I've always liked the looks of a real quick shot (what I would call a snap shot). No doubt they have their advantages in hunting situations. However, I've always liked the draw, anchor, line the arrows up, release method. If it takes me a few seconds to line the arrow up, if it takes me ten, that's what I do.
I was at a shoot last year in Coshocton, Ohio and got on fire (figuratively). I was shooting so well that I started doing what I would call snap shooting. As soon as I hit anchor the arrow was gone, and it hit its mark. Unfortunately that bred some target panic because I got to where I wasn't lining the arrow up, but was still releasing as soon as I hit anchor, even before I hit anchor. I don't shoot in the style that would be considered "purely instinctive," but that day I was so in the zone that the end result was the same-until the target panic developed.
I enjoy reading Fred Asbell's articles in TBM, however, I can't stand him at the same time. I don't doubt Fred is a great shooter, or that his style of shooting will work if you do things as he instructs. What I don't like is the perceived attitude that his way is the only way. It seems he writes as if the only way to shoot properly is to do it his way. I don't do it his way, far from his way, but I can still shoot. I've impressed people with my shooting, I've impressed myself. That doesn't mean I don't have my stink bad days just like anyone else, but I'm still capable of putting and arrow where I want it to go.
Overall I think it all comes down to a bunch of semantics that people are entirely too anal about. There are several basics to any shooting style: drawing, holding the bow, anchoring consistently, having the arrow directed at the intended target (whether you look at it or not), and a clean release and follow through. Come to these however you come to them. Don't worry about what it's called, who shoots what way, or how much they despise the way you do it. Whatever gets the arrow where it's supposed to go, bottom line. Ain't no deer gonna give you any grief over your shootin style.

Brandan

LBR

I think of snap shooting as a very quick shot--no pause at anchor at all. Like you said, this often leads to target panic and short drawing. To me, an out of control shot is just an out of control shot.

You nailed it on shooting style--the basics will be pretty much the same regardless--use what works best for you and don't worry about what the "experts" say. There are a lot of excellent shots that have completely different styles--Ferguson and Welch, for instance. I've seen these guys shoot, and they are good. Ferguson uses a modified gap system, Welch is "instinctive". I've changed/modified the way I shoot several times over the years--no one "right" way to do it for everyone.

Chad

Calabash

I tend to shoot fast.. Some people say I snap shoot. Not really.. I come to anchor on my face, do not short draw, then release.. But I do anchor, if just for a second..Would I recommend this to beginners, no.. It leads to some bad habits, but it works for me..As for as instinctive shooting, I use a modified style.. Short distance, just look at a spot on the target. Over 20 yrds.. I become aware of the gap, probaby just more aware..
Think Byron's book is good. but Fred covers some interesting points as well.

Calabash

IrishLad32

Chad, my thoughts on "snap shooting" are pretty much the same as your's, but man people sure have a fuss over it.

Calabash, what you describe is pretty much what I would call snap shooting. The affirmation of anchoring sounds like something Fred has said before in one of his articles, are you Fred?

Brandan

Calabash

Brandon,

Not quite Fred, but do wear a hat to cover the bald spot..lol.. Guess you could argue the term snap shooting a lot of ways.. To me the most necessary thing is controlled shooting. Shoot fast, shoot slow.. if you are under control and on your mark at the time of release, you will shoot just fine. I think you have to develope the style of shooting that fits you, and your personality...I'm not saying you don't have to have a good release and good shooting form and follow through, but I think you need to discover whats the best style for you..Anyway, JMHO......

Calabash

lcoast

I think terminology leads to a lot of the confusion. No way in the world Brian and Howard and Ron Leclair could shoot them little targets out of the air with a concious aiming system.


=keith=