Traditional bow question
 

I currently shoot a Bowtech compound and wanted to buy a traditional recurve. Does anybody out there shoots both types conistantly? I would like to hunt with both but not if it going to mean not being able to shoot both at any given time with great accuracy. Basiclly what I am saying is that a race car driver is not going to use two types of cars to win one race! He is going to rely on the one he drives the best (or two identical models) Any one that can do this with both types of bows?

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Hedhuntr,

I have been shooting compounds for 10 years and Recurves for 3 1/2 years.
I go back and forth all the time with no problem.
I credit Rick Welch's Instructional Video more than any factor for shooting a recurve as well as I do. Not that I'm great, lol.
Rick shoots three under and uses a two point anchor with his thumb knuckle touching his ear lobe and cock feather on the arrow touching the tip of his nose.
Rick fletches his own arrows so the cock feather touching his nose is measured for him and a little more precise.
But the factory feathers on my ACC arrows seem to work with this anchor for me just fine and seems to be about the right length when touching my nose.
Using Rick's anchor, I have always been able to shoot a 3" to 4" group at 20yds since day one.
I consider this pretty good shooting for a recurve with no sights or peep like my compound has.
I'm not nearly as good as Rick since he's a world champion but it's not too bad for me.
I can quit shooting my recurve for several months at a time and come back and be consistant using Rick's anchor.
I guess, this sounds like a plug for Rick Welch.
Yes, it is in a way but I truly believe in the man's method of shooting.
If other traditional shooters followed Rick's advice, they would be more successful hitting what they're aiming at whether it's targets or more importantly...Hunting!
Just my humble opinion. ;)
I love my compounds but they aren't half as much fun or satisfying as shooting a Recurve or Longbow. :)


Sag.


My favorite custom Recurve.
My Trails End by Dale Dye in Montana.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

No reason you can't shoot and enjoy both, but remember they are two different pieces of equipment--a stock car and dragster are both cars, and have some similarities, but are also totally different in ways.

Rick Welch is one heck of a shot, no doubt (not much of a talker though), but his methods may not work the best for everyone--the same goes for Larry Yein, Bill Leslie, Bob Wesley, Byron Ferguson, G. Fred Asbell, etc. Most all will have the same basic rules, but all have their own styles. The exact same anchor will not work the same for everyone, as different people have different facial structures--an anchor that puts the arrow right under my eye might be way off for you. I'm not saying Rick's video won't help, and it could be right on for you, but if it's not don't get frustrated and think you don't have any hope--just try something different. There is no one style that will work best for everyone.

Sag., out of curiosity, do you know which world shoots Rick has competed in? I know he's smoked the Lofton Classic several times in recurve, longbow, and selfbow (quite a feat) and they refer to it as a "world championship", but it's not quite that big (nowhere near it). Heck, I have come in 6th or 9th in longbow there, and I'm a far cry from 9th best in the world.
Same went for the Howard Hill shoot back when it was going on--dang good shoot, lots of dang good shooters there, but the competition itself could in no way be sactioned as a true world championship.

Chad

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Chad,

You're right as Rick's methods might not work for some.
But I couldn't hit worth anything with a Recurve at first until using Rick's anchor.
I use a 3 point anchor on my target compounds and the 2 point anchor of Rick's worked like a charm for me on my recurve.
Not sure about all the different world championships and the locations Rick has won them.
He has also won 70 state titles to boot.
Heck, how do you know you're not 9th best in the world if you finished 9th in a World Championship match ? ;)
My respect for you has grown greatly, Chad. ;)


Sag.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I think, in principle, it can be done and certainly has been, however, I have noticed some things with some compounders that has indicated to me they wouldn't do well with traditional bows. One is cocking the bow elbow, apparently to compensate for a too short draw length adjustment on the compound bow. This sort of thing will fling arrows all over the place if attempted with a traditional bow.

The other issue is finger shooting as opposed to mechanical release aids. I think it's much more difficult to get a clean, crisp release with a tab or glove than a mechanical release although the latter is also susceptable to unintentional discharge so maybe the issue is really transitioning between a triggered shot and a released shot or vice versa.

That I think might be easier to do than keeping a firm bowarm pushing at the target during draw and release, but both are issues I suspect archers ought to address in transitioning back and forth.

Beyond these things, I don't see much cause for dispute because in fact most traditional practitioners nowadays are also compounders and have in fact come from that discipline. So there shouldn't be any question about whether or not it can be done because it is being done quite frequently.

I'm probably a bit of an anomaly because I started traditional and have remained as such except for a one season experiment with a compound that convinced me a block and tackle bow wasn't for me. I'm always hopeful that those who transition from compounds to traditional bows finally decide to abjure the training wheels but that's a vain hope in many instances, sort of like giving up one's pacifier or mommy. :D

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I shoot trad bows most of the time, but decided to try a compound this summer because of a shoulder problem. When I finally gained enough information and experience to adapt my basic trad style to the compound I found I could shoot it pretty well. I use a bare finger release (no glove or tab, just fingers) and have done so for many years. I couldn't get the hang of a release, so I finally found a 3 finger draw / 2 finger release using my regular anchor point would work. I had to adjust to keep the compound vertical to use the sights correctly, but I finally got that down. Switching back to a trad bow and shooting instinctively has been no problem for me, but I've been shooting that way for 40+ years. Jumping back to the compound finds me mentally talking myself through the shot sequence, but it works. I just hope the doctor knows his business and keeps my shoulder working for a few more years so I can stay traditional. Them compound bows is heavy :D

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Lol--do I detect a hint of sarcasm?:D I wasn't trying to take away from Rick's accomplishments--I found it downright amazing that he was able to swap up bows and still pretty much smoke all the competition--I think in all the classesd he shot in second place wasn't even close to him. However, the fact that I was able to place that high is proof that there wasn't that many great shooters there;).

I should take this opportunity to thank you for mentioning the double anchor--since I first saw you talk about it, I've been working on it myself, and it does help a bunch! Now, if I can only make myself do it consistently......

Mainly, I just wanted to mention that there are different ways of acheiving the same goal, and not every method works right for every archer. I've seen guys that took a position that looked downright painful to me, and they still couldn't shoot very well, but insisted on maintaining it because "so-and-so said to do it like this in his book/video".

Do you plan on making any of the bigger tournaments this coming year? I'd love to see that bow in person--it's a beauty! If it shoot's 1/2 as good as it looks, you got a winner.

Chad

RE: Traditional bow question
 

No sarcasm at all, Chad.
in fact, I was LMAO after I typed my reply to you. :D
Heck, I aggravate the compound guys all the time on the Technical Forum and at Archery Talk.
I'm a little more serious on the Traditional Forums I frequent as most Traditional shooters can't abide my humor or Pot Stirring.
Unlike you, most of them don't have much of a sense of humor.
They tend to get mad at Ol' Sag. LOL ;)


Sag.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Sag thats a nice lookin bow.Where can I get a copy of ricks video?

CB

RE: Traditional bow question
 

As a matter of fact it is possible to shoot both accuratey! I'll let the cat out of the bag before ArthurP get's me any way. I shot my buck this year with an old 1973 Alaskan compound with sights on a Monday. I went back on Wednesday to get my stand and shot a doe there with my longbow. The buck was 9 yds. and the doe was 12 yds. "Anybody can kill them with wheels and sights." It just takes more practice to get to that point with traditional equipment.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I wasn't gonna tell on ya, longbowman. Really! [&:]

For someone that has already put in the time and effort learning to shoot a traditional bow well, going from traditional to compound is generally VERY easy to do. For someone that started with a compound and has never shot a traditional bow, going from compound to traditional is generally very hard to do. I don't know very many guys that made traditional a part-time hobby and ever got really good at it.

If you want to learn to shoot a traditional bow with great accuracy, then you have to dedicate yourself to training and learning how to do it. What you MUST realize is you are a baby, learning how to walk. You don't just jump up and start running. You crawl at first. Then you learn to stand up without falling on your arse. Then you learn to take a few steps before falling on your arse again. But you stick with it and eventually wind up walking like you were born doing it, with complete confidence.

Same thing with a traditional bow. Start out re-learning the basics. How to hold the bow, how to anchor, where to anchor, how to grab the string, how to turn loose of the string. All your shooting should be between 5-10 yards at first. Only when you're hitting good up close should you begin moving back. It's not likely to be easy for you. You will fall flat on your arse a dozen times, but if you've got the mental toughness to work through the frustration and not give up, you can do it.

Once you've acheived your goal, then you can switch back and forth from traditional to compound without any problem.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Cajunbowhntr.

Rick's address is http://www.1-dakota-bowhunting.com/ but appears to be down.
Will let you know where else you can get one if it's not back up soon.


Sag.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I used to hear about how you couldn't play something like squash, and tennis, because the stroke was different. I don't think that trad is anything like that, there isn't a poison pill in there somewhere that will wreck one or the other game. For instance I don't agreee that a bent elbow will wreck anything.

On the other hand, if you are at that point in your life were time is in any way limited, then you are basicaly cutting your practice in half. If you had 25 (250, whatever) hours to practice shooting last year, this year you will have 12.5 hours each. plus you will have twice the tuning and maintenance time. Eventualy this gets to be detrimental. At one point I was trying to shoot various kinds of archery competitively, and I was shooting several compounds in 3D since because of different rules. It just got to be too much.

"beware of the man with one gun"

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I went to a recurve about ten years ago . I couldn't imagine wanting to go back to a compound . I was to the point of having to have all the gadgets then I thought back to when we were kids an old fiberglass bow 2 or 3 differant sized arrows ( wood , fiberglass , and if you were lucky an aluminum ) in your quiver . We shot rabbits .,squirrels and frogs . Amazingly we did pretty good . When I started shooting my new recurve I only shot after dark with a light on the target ( I wanted to shoot totaly instinctive ). Start at 10 yards , find your anchor point and start practicing . After a while it will become second nature . After you get your feel for your bow . Another way I practice is to take an old basketball and kick it around the yard shooting at it . If you don't have a lot of time to practice stick with a compound . I have had one season when iI couldn't shoot every day and used my compound to hunt and had no problems at all . whwichever bow you choose practice is the key . GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I enjoy shooting both. I started shooting recurve 2 yrs. ago. I have no problem shooting either one. I hunt with both, even go to the 3-d shoots. I take the bow to the shoots which ever one feels good to me at the time. I guess i'm kind of a natural when shooting a recurve, that's just what alot of people have said, but even at that, it still takes alot of practice to be real accurate with recurve, but they are a blast to shoot. :)

RE: Traditional bow question
 

There is no reason why you can't shoot both types of equipment well if you are willing to put in the time that is required to attain the amount of skill you desire. A few years ago I shot both in 3-d and did pretty well I usually palced in the top 3 in both calsses that I shot in that happened to be A in recurve & AA in compound it just got to be more like work than fun. Now I just shoot my Recurve and have a ball don't even miss the compound.:D

RE: Traditional bow question
 

I think Authur P pretty much said it well, if you put the time in, then you'll get good at traditional archery. And remember not to look for the pin through the peep because like it was said, traditional and compounds are two different animals. Just learn which ever one is new to you from the beginning again, because although both are bows, the technique and form used to operate each can be very different.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

There is no doubt you can shoot both accurately, but as for myself, when I first switched to traditional seven years ago, I shot both for awhile, then dropped the compound alltogether after a few months because switching back and forth created problems in developing my form. It probably wouldn't be as big an issue today as then, but I really don't have a desire to shoot compounds anymore, I find traditional far more enjoyable. If you can do both and want to shoot both, then absolutely go for it! As for me, I find it hard to serve two masters, I have to choose one or the other, not both.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

My opinion ? You'll never be as accurate with a trad bow as you are with your compound, much like you'll never get the range/accuracy from your compound that you do with your rifle. Can you shoot both ? Well, yes, you can, but its a different way of hunting IMO and you'll screw it all up by switching back and forth all the time. Its possible though I suppose, I have a buddy who's going to do that very thing next year. Hunt for fun with the longbow, hunt to kill with the compound.

Just enjoy it all and the Hunt

RE: Traditional bow question
 

Hedhuntr - shooting traditional isn't the same as shooting a compound, so you have to figure out what kind of race you would rather run. Dirt track? Nascar? Indy? It's all racing yes, but different types.

I picked up the recurve after years of hunting with a compound. Hunted with the recurve for two years, then went back to the compound. After not picking up my compound for two years, I put 6 arrows in the bullseye the first time I shot it. You don't lose it with a compound and pins (if they are on still). With traditional, you have to work at it. I was shooting bullseyes at 25 yards the first day I brought my recurve home and was fairly consistent. I knew anchor point and the mechanics involved though. Still, if I walk away from the recurve, that "feel" goes away but doesn't take a whole lot to get it back.

So, going back and forth? They won't affect one another because they aren't the same.

Also, it's a completely different accomplishment to harvest a deer with a recurve, at least it was for me.

RE: Traditional bow question
 

When I first started shooting a recurve I kept going back to the compound every time I had a bad session, which was very regularly. [X(] I finally realized I needed to get rid of it if I was going to fulfill my goal w/the 'curve. I did so & found myself getting better till one day I noticed that my bad days were better than my good days used to be. That's been many moons ago & I'm pretty sure I could shoot both now. But now that I prolly could, guess what? I have no desire too. [8D]

I had to get rid of my 'crutch' before I could focus on my recurve enough to make a difference in my shooting. Of course, your mileage may vary...