I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

I recently purchased a Fox reverse handle longbow from Arrowsmit. I have only shot about 30 arrows through it, but what a pleasure to shoot.

I find it so much easier to shoot than recurves. When I say easier, I mean easier to point at and hit the point on the target that I'm focusing on.

My son, Reylamb, will be 30 a week from tomorrow. I went to Buford, GA this weekend to help celebrate his daughter's 3rd birthday. I carried my CM Firebird along and gave it to him as a birthday present!

I am now committed to longbows! I'm sure they all don't shoot like the Fox, but I have found one I love to shoot!

I have ordered a half dozen fletched arrows with 125 gr field points from RRA, 3 50-55# and 3 55-60# to see what will shoot best out of the bow. I have a dozen 60-65# POCs but they shoot left and angle to the left from my POA when they impact the target. (Hmmmm, maybe I ought to point out they are fletched arrows with thre 5" shield cut feathers!)

I want to shoot wood with Magnus broadheads. Once I figure out what works best with the bow, I'll order a dozen finished arrows.

Bill

Edited by - lamb1647 on 02/03/2002 20:20:39

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Now that your a longbow man you need to get rid of those wimpy 125gr fps and get some weight like 140 or better 160gr fps and bhs. Heavy is good. Congrats on new bow.

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

I want a longbow quite badly now. I wish my compound would hurry up and sell. I can't decide what longbow I want though. I have a prospective used Crusader. Some other bows I like too. I don't know.....this is no fun. I need to be rich.

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Sounds like things are going good. I'm really glad you like it Bill. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Now that your a longbow man you need to get rid of those wimpy 125gr fps and get some weight like 140 or better 160gr fps and bhs. Heavy is good. Congrats on new bow.
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Chessbum,

I shot 160 broadheads, 3-blade Thunderheads, one year on 2219 aluminum arrows when I was still shooting a compound and had a 65-80# PSE I had set at 74#. I shot a 150# doe in West Virginia that ducked but the arrow still caught her below the spine.

It punched a big hole in her and she bled like the proverbial &quot;stuck Pig&quot;! She made it about 30 yards before she collapsed and expired. Her blood trail was about 4 ft wide.

Yes, I have always been a believer in heavy arrows. I am aiming for a 9-10 gr/PDF arrow/broadhead combo. I'll have to see what I come up with on my test arrows.

It may well be that if I shifted to 145-160 gr, I could use the 60-65# spined arrows I already have on hand! Hm, that is worth thinking about!

Thanks!

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

found myself the very same way...now becareful, there's a looooot of different longbow boywers out there! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!

as per the 140-160 grain, whats the diff between shooting curves or longbows? I always have been 8-10grains per pound.

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

When I first started hunting with compounds, speed was NOT the big deal it is today. Most of the bowhunting books and articles I read recommended 9 gr/pdf. I always tried to stay close to that.

I stayed in the 8+ range until I got my Jennings Buckmaster and heard about Gold Tip Carbon shafts with inserts instead of outserts. I bought a dozen Gold Tips to see how fast I could shoot.

I gained speed, but I didn't like the extra noise that ws generated. The noise was the energy that was not being absorbed by the light arrow making itself known by vibrations in the bow. There are those who would say todays silencing technology, i.e., Limb Savers, etc., makes it a moot point. I disagree.

After I got my first recurve, the literature I read recommended 10 gr/pdf for traditional bows. I don't think I have ever reached that level. I get close to 9, but I don't believe I have ever surpassed it.

Heavier arrows absorb more energy and carry more energy downrange. Lighter arrows have lots of speed but shed that speed rapidly. They also absorb much less energy and shed it rapidly, too.

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Bill,
Chad never did send you those Long Bow Rules, did he?

Darrel

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

wont disagree with that Lamb..but as to the 140grain heads or heavier...most of the time, unless your foc is really whacked, there is no need unless there is a broadhead you really like that only comes in...say 160 grain like the hill heads, there are others very similar that can come in lighter weights but the last I saw, the true hill points are still the ole 160 grains they have been since I started! I have a few buddies up here that persist on getting those heavy weights and its humorous to see there arrow flight....partially I think it has to do with there heads and not knowing how to match there set ups to them (increasing enuf in spine to make up for the heads)...when they do, they dont have a bow that is capable of getting those arrows off the shelf let alone through a moose...your right, speed isnt everything! But I do think there is a limit as to how heavy an arrow you have, will actually benefit the penetration you get before you start not only loosing momentum and ke but also your trajectory is really gonna suck LOL! Thats my only challenge...I am actually just under 11 grains per pound of draw shooting 60lbs pulling off speeds of 175-180fps with my longbow (last I checked it was mid to high 40's for ke)....more then adequate for a moose! Most of the whitetail folks though dont need this kind of weight but that we need to be heavy is so ingrained into stickbow folks its crazy...these same folks take 45 and 50lb bows and try and handle my 725gr ash arrows!!! Sure they are gonna penetrate a whitetail, but heck, is your setup really that efficient with that heavy of an arrow with such a light bow...imo I dont think so. Its kinda of a drastic difference but from what I have seen folks are doing just that across the country! I havent ran numbers to prove it, I do however have a buddy who knows this stuff much better then I....I'll pass this on to him and see what he has to say.

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bill,
Chad never did send you those Long Bow Rules, did he?

Darrel
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Darrel,

Nope!

I guess that means I can just make up my own rules! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Bill, I think that's the ONLY rule...ya make your own as you go! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dan, I've been curious a long time about that very question: All else being equal (bow draw weight, draw length, quality of arrow flite, etc), is there a point of diminishing returns (of energy transfer) for arrow weight? I've never gotten a consumate answer, & am not nearly well versed enough in physical laws to figure it out by myself. Veeeery interestink!!

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

I think there is but I think I am like you....lol! Not knowing where to begin and knowing someone who is well versed in all this figured he would enlightn me.....havent received an email back yet though...I'll post when he replys.

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

The bottom line when choosing arrow type and spine, broadhead, etc., one must choose which compromise to make. Do you compromise energy and silence of the bow to accomplish greater speed? Or do you compromise speed to gain energy and improved silencing of the bow.

I have heard the arguement that speed has more influence on energy than does weight of the arrow because the energy is a factor of the velocity squared times the mass. That may be true insofar as initial velocity is concerned. However, I believe the heavier arrow will retain much more of its energy downrange than will the lighter arrow.

The air drag of feather fletching will impact the lighter arrow downrange more so than the heavier arrow. I always chose to use arrows as close to 9 gr/pdf when I was shooting compounds because my bows were much quieter, the limbs therefore were absorbing much less of the energy from the draw force curve because the heavy arrows were much more efficient in absorbing the energy.

That is the other element that must be considered. Transfer of energy from the bow to the arrow. A heavier arrow will have more energy transferred to it. The lighter arrow will have less transferred to it, therefore the limbs pay the price by absorbing the difference.

What is a good trade-off. With compounds I never went under 8 gr/pdf and got as close to 9 gr/pdf as I could. With traditional, I haven't been at it long enough to really get a good feel for it, but I think I would stick to the 9 gr/pdf as my minimum and probably would try to avoid going over 10 gr/pdf.

Can I give a good reason for my guesstimations for traditional bows? No! It is just a gut feeling. And I have a big gut so I usually trust it! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bill, I think that's the ONLY rule...ya make your own as you go! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Vic,

If you was around me very much, I think you wold find me to be an insufferable punster. I like to take words and phrases and use them in one liners.

In essence, that is what I have been doing in asking Chad to post the longbow rules. I'm sure there aren't any hard and fast rules, but, I was playing off of Chad's well known signature &quot;Longbow Rules&quot; when asking him to publish the longbow rules.

You would have to think like me to comprehend some of the things that I come up with. But, if you thought like me, you'd be a punster, too. I'm not sure the board can handle more than one! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

hey Bill...thats about perfect.

I do think you are kinda missing what me and Vic were getting at there though. Getting to heavy, 10 grains is fine, I know of one guy up here at 14 dang near 15grains per pound of draw! Just makes me wonder if there is a breaking point where that heavy of an arrow would be a less efficient total package then say a 8-10 grain per pound of draw weight set up would. I also wonder for those folks who were shooting godzilla bows like Howard Hill was.....80-100lb bows were the norm.....I wonder if he shot 800grain arrows out the hundred pounders, not talking his elephant arra, I thought that was like 1700 grains lol but his lions and such? ANyone know?

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Not at all sure about HH's fav arrow weight, but I recall reading an article in TBM years ago where the author used 1500gr solid fiberglass fishing arrows on whitetails. I can't remember the guys name or bow weight, but that's the one that really got me thinkin about the diminishing returns factor...

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Vic & Dan,

I think we are saying the same thing, just phrasing it a bit differently. I believe there is a point of diminishing returns going both directions, either too heavy or too light. That is why I settled on 8 gr/pdf on the light end for my compounds. I got the best compromise of speed and noise at that level. Likewise, I suspect that when going past 10 gr/pdf for a longbow, the the amount of noise reduction achieved is minimal in comparison to the rapidly decreasing arrow speed.

The other factor, point weight, is really going to be a factor of the arrow/fletching/nocks weight and resultant FOC. If I went to a heavy point just to have a heavy point, and resulted in a FOC that was too far forward, I would get horrible arrow flight. The heavy point would tend to want to drive the forward end of the shaft into the ground.

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

I read that too Vic....quite awhile ago, thought he had a big ole doe for a picture, I remember he was a longbow shooter.

I think you are right now that I re read everything and your most recent post LOL

as to your heavy points...thats exactly whats happening to a couple guys up here.....got tired of trying to help them. One of them has a buffalo tag burning a hole in his pocket and dang if he isnt taking out his rifle. Oh ya I want to do it with my recurve....ya right! Even if he did I would bet his arrow bounces off flying sideways LOL!

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Lamb1647, nice talking with you at Buds. I took your advice and had him order some RR shafts, now have the jig completed and am attempting to make barreled shafts to shoot out of the Martin Vision. I will use 5 1/2 inch Shield cut LW Yellow feathers. Cheers

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Lamb1647, nice talking with you at Buds. I took your advice and had him order some RR shafts, now have the jig completed and am attempting to make barreled shafts to shoot out of the Martin Vision. I will use 5 1/2 inch Shield cut LW Yellow feathers. Cheers
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Bob,

Thanks for helping me with the paper tuning today. I was amazed to see the number of traditional bows in Bud's shop today.

Deans' Hungarian horsebow is quite unique, very quiet, and quick. It would be something else if he got one in Yew, Walnut or Elm!

Bill

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Bill, how'd the paper tuning go, & what spine did ya come up with for that sweet lil longbow? (BTW, I think I'm fast re-becoming a longbow guy too. This Dakota shoots SWEET!!)

RE: I'm a Longbow Man Now
 

Vic,

The paper tuning went great. The results from the paper tuning bore out what shooting in the backyard told me. The bow prefers 57-58# spine over the lighter spines.

Actually, the 58# resulted in a perfect hole with no tear. The 57# had a very slight, &lt;1/8&quot; tear up and to the left. The others had a bit more tear up and to the left. The worst case was 1/2&quot;. I recall going with my setup and arrow spine with paper tuning results of 1/2&quot; high and to the left or a bit more!

I'm going to see if RRA can make me a set of 58-59# spine aRRAs. I think they would be right on.

I did notice the 23/64 aRRA punches a big hole! Of course, most of the other folks that shoot in the Archery Shop shoot Gold Tip or Beman carbon arrows. Their holes do look a good bit smaller. I figure with the sharp to the point broadhead it will be pushing in front of it, it won't matter!

Bill