Give me a reason to try again...
 

Hey all. I have been a compound shooter since I started hunting in the mid 80' s. About six years ago I started messing around with my buddy' s recurve because the idea of carrying a lightweight, uncomplicated bow without sights appealed very much to me. I read Asbell' s book on instinctive shooting from cover to cover. I totally immersed myself in it to be honest. I shot my friends bow for a couple months and was progressing to the point where I was convinced it was time for a bow of my own. So I wandered down to the Screaming Eagle store and shot just about every bow they had on the shelf. When it was all said and done I ended up with a Great Plains Wolf Creek recurve at 54 pounds with a 28" draw. I practiced faithfully for the next seven months and about the best I could do was hit a paper plate at 15 yards with darn near every shot. Darn near are the key words though. Not too good in my opinion. Well, hunting season was approaching fast and since I was not accurate enough with the recurve it was back to the compound. To make a long story short, that was the last time I picked up that recurve. No matter how hard I tried I just couldn' t get the hang of shooting instinctively using the method as described by Fred. It never became automatic for me like it apparently does for others. So give me a reason to give it another try. What do you think? The bow is beautiful and the simplicity of the whole instinctive shooting concept still fascinates me. I' m sure the bow is not the problem...It' s the crappy archer behind it.

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

Jim,
Maybe you' re too hung up the style Asbell teaches. Just because he shoots like a ' house a fire' doesn' t mean it' s the be all,end all for everyone. I' m not familiar with the " Asbell Method" , but I' m a believer in finding your own shooting style. Why not beg/borrow a 40-45# bow and go outside with a light heart and try all manner things? Maybe you' ll find that an anchor and " hold until the brain lines things up" is right for you. Maybe it' s some other method. At least with a much lighter rig you' d have the lattitude to try various (and maybe obsure) techniques.

Go out and have FUN with it!

RC

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

who said you had to shoot instictive too? It works for some and only a very very few get really good at it. most of the great shooters however dont shoot instinctive. I also cant give you a good reason to try again. You have to want to do that yourself! Best of luck.

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

I agree that you should be using a bow that is in the 40-45# range at your actual draw length with the bow and instead of shooting for accuracy right away, you should be working on the foundation of your shooting. That being your form. I know you' ve heard this already, but it' s something that can' t be said enough. The more consistent your form is from shot to shot, the more consistent your accuracy will be from shot to shot. Even using the instinctive method, which like was said, isn' t for everybody. Many try it and most end up using some method of aiming. Where the aiming can fail, whether using a sighted set of wheels or a bare stickbow, is at unknown distances in uneven/unfamiliar terrain with obstacles like overhanging branches, high brush, deadfalls and other things, that are between you and your target. The only way to make those shots consistently are to actually practice them in the field. Unless you know the flight of the arrow from your bow, you severely limit yourself and your bows potential. One way to learn the flight of your arrow from your bow is to do a lot of roving and flight shooting. It' s a heck of a lot more fun than standing flat footed in front of a target butt flinging arrows at paper.

As far as talking you into trying again, you need to have the desire in your heart and the willingness/determination in your mind to continue shooting a stick and do what it takes to get as good as you can with it. If you look at your shooting with a good sense of humor, you' ll stop a lot of the frustration of missing and your attitude will improve. A possitive attitude makes for a possitive shooting experience and you' ll find that your shooting will improve too.

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

If you couldn' t get the ' point and shoot' instinctive style to work for you, then forget it. Like Lilhunter says, not just everyone is good at it. Instead, concentrate on what you want to hit, but be aware of where the tip of the arrow is, in relation to the target. Gap shooting is a lot more consistent.

The beauty of it is, after you' ve shot that way for awhile you find you think less and less about where the tip of the arrow is until you finally don' t think about it at all. In other words, gap shooting eventually becomes instinctive shooting.

A lot of guys I know have never figured out what arrow spine they really need for their bows. You put the correct arrow on a well tuned bow, get a good solid anchor under your eye, execute a good release and follow through, the arrow doesn' t have any choice but shoot down the middle. All that' s left to do is elevation, and that' s where gapping comes in.

Some people like to build a deep mystique around instinctive shooting but, good grief, even Og the Caveman was shooting instinctive. And making a living at it. I doubt he ever once worried about what size his groups were. ;)

Seems like I put this in every post like this, but it' s the truth. Get away from the target butt. Put some judo points on your arrows and go stump shooting. A clump of grass, a leaf, a dried cow pie, weed stalks, grasshoppers, a can left by some slimy litterbug... All kinds of worthy targets to take a poke at. Maybe even go home with the makings for rabbit stew at the end of the day.;)

You have much of that kind of fun and they' ll have to drag you, kicking and screaming, back to compounds. :D

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. I appreciate the advise. I really don' t think that the draw weight of my bow is that big of an issue though. Maybe I' m wrong. I' m a pretty strong guy (not bragging) and I never really seemed to struggle to hit a consistent anchor. Also, the guys at Screaming Eagle were very thorough with me and made sure I wasn' t over bowed when I bought the recurve.

I may have just gotten myself hung up on Asbell' s style of shooting and didn' t let things flow naturally for me. If you read his book, there is a pretty big checklist of things to keep in mind while performimg each shot. That never did come very natural to me. To be honest, whenever I would come to full draw and pause instead of hitting the anchor and releasing, as Asbell suggests, I had better results. Do you think that there would be any advantage to three fingers under using the gap shooting method? It would seem that the closer you can get the shaft of the arrow to the eye the easier it may be.

As far as stump shooting...You are right. I always had a better time while roving about and practicing. I still couldn' t shoot worth a hoot but it was more fun for sure.:D

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

What has worked for me.3 under,high anchor(middle finger in mouth)When I draw I hold the bow arm out and line the tip of my arrow with the target.This helps set the windage.I make note of the arrow in relation to the target and then focus on the spot.

CB

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

of course 3 under with a high draw is going to be easier to follow. Essentually you are using the point of aim method. (in my opinion the easiest for someone to understand and pick up relatively fast). It shortens your point on mark, depending on how long your arrows are, falling somewhere around the 20 yard mark. You can alter this by shortening (if you have room to do so) or lengthening your arrow shaft. Like Art said, the longer you shoot with some kind of reference, be it split vision, gap, or point of aim, the less you will rely on it and eventually go full tilt to shooting " instinctive" . However with no reference point to start from, the learning curve is, to say the least, rather HUMBLY slow!!! Thats on a good shot.

Some pick it up to some degree rather fast, but really grasping the concept and executing it much better then they start out doing is tough. Its usually where I see the local folks here turn cheek to shooting sticks and go back to wheels or quit all together. Thats a decision every individual will have to make on their own. I hate to see anything happen that would change their desire to shoot how they want but some just simply dont have it.

The other thing folks get IMHO wrapped around the axil on is shooting and hitting something. Larry Yien helped me cure some target panic I had a couple years back on one of the chat rooms. At that point I was ready to sell all my bowhunting gear and give it up all together I was so ticked. Thats after shooting my first dall ram and missing a grizzly the next morning that should have been a chip shot! (not to mention I reaked like dead sheep after a full afternoon of packing that ram off the mountian the day before). Needless to say I was steaming mad and laughing at myself for the predicament I found myself in. For some stupid reason I walked into the alder thicket after this bear. (btw it was a very very good bear for interior alaska) No backup, my wife trying to watch with my spotting scope, and myself having no clue where that bear went. Just to give you a visual. Find the nastiest thicket you have 8-10ft high. Make trails through it 4 ft high with nothing but bear crap everywhere and some of the bushes completely nocked over and/or torn apart. You know their is a bear their fattening up for dinner and you smell as sweet as fresh dall sheep meat! After that experience I was pretty choked up about shooting and bowhunting all together. Over the course of the winter and the following spring I managed to rid myself of the dreaded TP. Larry' s advice was simple enough and I have heard and read it from other great shots since. Shoot at a bale, eyes closed, in my case for 2 or 3 weeks until I reprogrammed my shooting. YOU HAVE TO LET AN ARROW FLY or it wont work. You MUST! Thats how it worked in a nutshell. I' ll tell you, come that fall I could have split a hair of a rams back a lot longer then I could ever imagine shooting at a game animal with ANY bow! I have since found myself shooting more often for form then for accuracy. Sounds odd but like everyone else is saying here, you do your part, the bow will do its (granted you have the bow tuned and the right spine arrow coming out of it), the arrow has no choice but to hit the mark or very very close to it! Its really that simple.

Shooting well is also a mindset. Talking to a bowyer the other day who hasnt missed in a good number of years. He says when he goes to shoot, he knows the animal is dead. I was told this about the same time I had my TP disease and since have changed my way of thinking when it comes to the killing part of hunting. When my arrow flys, I KNOW that animal is dead before the arrow impacts that critter. Sure I go through the shot over and over and shake like a leaf in a hurricane. Thats one of the reasons why we hunt. I' ll even go as far as to question my shot, but when it comes down to it, I know the animal is dead. Now I do still mm mmm mmmiss! Well on grouse anyways. (that is my true passion when it comes to hunting, grouse, it always has been and always will be!) After awhile you' ll hit a point where when your arrow flys, It WILL hit its mark! Everything in due time.

Last but not least. Like I said in my first post. I really cant give you a good reason to stick it out and enjoy shooting a traditional bow. You have to WANT to do it YOURSELF! I' ve tried to help out to many people up here that come to me for help that really dont want it. They want instant gratification and instant robin hood status quo or they quit. Thats their decision. No amount of pressure or amount of ignoring them works. Some of them are some great friends I have watched sell bows all together and get out of the world of bowhunting. They had a great desire to go out with me but when they found out how much work, time, and $$$ can go into the sport of bowhunting, not ot menmtion patience, they just plain ole quit. I am glad they stuck it out with the fly fishing side cuz I really did need a good fishing partner at the time. Now I am back to where I was. He has since been stationed to the east coast. I am back to teaching 2 new guys to the sport of shooting stickbows and fly fishing. What fun it is, the cycle which seems to restart itself every few years. Stick it out if you choose to put the dedication its going to take to be a successful traditional bowhunter and you will be rewarded 200 fold then what the average bowhunter will ever experience. But make sure that decision is yours and only yours! Their is enuf of us on here that can help you through the process as best we can. Some are much better at it then others (myself at the bottom of that very very long list if I have even made it that far). Dont expect instant success. one day something will just click. That something maybe small. Be it your release, bow hand, bow arm, bh. It happens, and then you' ll kick yourself for how easy it was, then on to the next hurdle. Without someone looking over your shoulder their is going to be speed bumps and maybe some road blocks. You' ll have to work through them and hopefully we can give you a hand, if you so desire to stick it out. The ball' s in your court, this is your game!

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

Another great thread. I feel my enthusiasm comming back again. Sometimes it' s hard to learn one of the things we try so hard to teach our kids . . . . . patience, patience, patience.

I learn something new everyday on this forum. Thank you one and all for all the advice and encouragement.

RE: Give me a reason to try again...
 

Actually it' s us, or at least me, that would like to thank you all for putting up such great threads. My enthusiasm has been wanting lately because of my lack of being able to shoot. You have brought the old feelings back in me and for that, I owe everyone here a big THANKS!!!!!!!