35# Bow
 

Just an observation for anyone interested.

Saturday I shot at a local 3-D tournament (as local as it gets for me anyhow). My buddy was shooting a 35# bow--it's about all he can handle due to arthritus in his wrist. He missed a target--the penetration was something to talk about.

He wasn't shoot 1,000 grain arrows, or single-bevel broadheads, or extrememe FOC. With his 35# bow, he penetrated 4-5" of dirt and another 3" into a tree root with a standard "bullet" point. I don't think he would have any problem shooting clean through a whitetail. The bow had a Trad Tech riser and a set of "Black Max" wood/glass limbs that retail for $130 a set.

Chad

I bet that would be close to me shooting deer with my selfbow. And have no doubts, it would penetate a deer as long as there is no shoulder or strange rib deal.

I have two recurves that I bowhunt deer with and one of them is a 37# bow.

Last year, I shot a very heavy 535 grain 2114 aluminum arrow out of it and this year, I'm trying a lighter 2212 aluminum arrow that will weigh somewhere between 471-481 grains after I tweak it a little more. This will give me a heavy 12.72-13.00 GPP arrow.

I plan on bowhunting deer with this lighter arrow setup with my 37# recurve.

Heck, I just finished next years hunting bow, it will be pulling 70 lbs at my draw length. The sucker will shoot through my three D. Lol. As for the 35lb draw, I would not use one on an animal. With that said, I have built some, tuned them and they shot well and had great penetration. I just owe it to the animal to use the biggest bow I am proficient shooting. Here in Texas, you cannot hunt with a bow less than 45 lbs for a reason. Not many people take the time to tune a low lb bow to where it will penetrate good enough. Still, I dont know if I would shoot the best tuned 35 lb bow at an animal much larger than a rabbit. Or I would have to be with in 10 yards for something larger.

You bring up a good point Burnie--tuning makes a big difference in penetration.


That being said, if the arrow is flying sideways, shooting a 100# bow isn't going to get the job done.

Still shoot my old 35# Tamerlane, mostly at Pdogs anymore. Its still alot of fun, even after many years.

FWIW, I intend to hunt with the bows I have now (all but one is 60# or more at my draw length), but if the time comes that I have to drop down in weight I know it will do the job as long as I do my part. I've told the story before about my best friend's daughter--we finally measured her draw length and weighed out the bow, and if she came to full draw she was pulling a massive 28# and killed her deer at 26 paces. Would I recommend trying this? Heck no! But I know it can be done--good arrow flight and putting it in the right spot did the job.

Texas has "no" minimum bow poundage for compound bows, longbows or recurves. The only minimum bow poundage is for crossbows and that is 125#. This can be confirmed by TPWD's archery rules.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publicat...al/hunt/means/

I've been bowhunting deer, small feral hogs, javelina with light poundage recurve bows for the last 47 years so I'm no rookie. I wait for a broadside shot at distances around 15 yards or less where my heavy GPP (grains per pound) aluminum arrow can take out both lungs. No animal goes very far without lungs. If I don't get both criteria, I let the animal walk.

Thanks nightwing. I have not looked at the laws in a long time. When I started this game, back in the 70s, it was understood that 45# was the minimum. I might have assumed it was the law. I am like you when it comes to hunting, but we have to agree that not everyone does it our way. That is why the compound bow is so popular. Heck, I can remember when people were questioning the use of compounds.

Texas laws on minimum bow weight haven't always been this way. Until a couple years ago there was a minimum of 40#. The minimum # law was changed about the same time squirrels and rabbits were changed to game animals. That made hunting them with an airgun illegal. I'm still trying to figure that one out. You can't hunt squirrels and rabbits with a 1200fps scoped air rifle, but you can hunt them with a 15# bow.
I don't have problem with light bows if a person can shoot accurately. One of my longbows is 37# and I can kill with it. The problem I'm seeing is too many people are not proficient. They buy a light bow, then they bring it out of storage about a month before hunting season when they get hunting fever. Many can't hit a pie plate at 15 yards. Too many dads are taking their kids to the woods with 25# bows. There is a point that a bow becomes too light. That's is a recipe for wounded animals.

I have a bag target that was blessed by the Pope. It's very "holy" now. In the middle of the target where there is a very deep hole, I place a large pine cone in that spot. I practice at 5, 10, 15 and 20 yards. That pine cone is my "pick a spot" and I can really scare the hell out of that pine cone at 20 yards with both of my low poundage recurves.

Practice is what makes a bowhunter a good and confident shooter whether it's with a 35# trad bow or whether it's with a 65# trad bow and every poundage inbetween.

I'd say 95% of the kids I see bowhunting; from 13 years old and up, they're bowhunting with compound bows, not trad bows. And the kids shooting those compound bows are very good at 20 yards and under due to mounted sights, peep sights, release aids and high letoff percentage. The lowest poundage I've seen them shoot is with a 35# compound. Put it this way; at 20 yards and under, I wouldn't want to be a deer that's standing broadside still to these kids. If I were a deer and did that, I'd be hanging from a meat pole.

My wife shoots a 34 pound recurve and the trick is PERFECT arrow flight which she gets.. Two blade broadhead and she blows thru deer and turkey with no issues!

Arrow weight and head type are everything. What is this tuning nonsense? I thought I was on a traditional forum, guess not.

Any bow needs to be tuned to get the most out of it--preformance, accuracy, and penetration--traditional or not. Like Dalebow noted--perfect arrow flight makes all the difference.

You just tune a tradtional bow differently--adjust brace height, point weight, arrow length, etc.

Chad

"Tune" is a word bow shops use to charge money. If you need some one to "Tune" your longbow or recurve, you need a compound. About 25 years ago a co-worker asked how I could possibly get a deer with a recurve. He shot a compound in a league and considered it a super human feat. I explained that I was a bow hunter, not a bow target shooter. There is a big difference. When the old bows started becoming popular again people wanted to go simple and fun. Human nature being what it is, it wasn't long before "Experts" started selling Fast Flyte string and wanted to tune your bow. Eventually the tide will move towards mechanical bows again. I just have to wonder if all these people that swear by stickbows will stay loyal. It was awful lonely out there in the woods with a stickbow in the early 80's. At one time I had over 300 bows in my collection. I wonder where those guys went ? Hunting with a stickbow is an attitude, not just another hunting tool.

What traditional shops charge for advice on tuning a traditional bow? There are tons of discussions on it, and a large section of a website devoted to it-- www.bowmaker.net .

Tuning is something any informed archer wants to do. A tuned bow is a better shooting bow. Better performance, quieter, better penetration, less hand shock, better consistency.

Most tuning costs very little if anything. Adjust your brace height. Adjust your silencer placement. Use a serving that fits your nocks properly, or vice-versa.

I once saw a fellow posting about not being able to get pass-through's on whitetail deer, suppossedly shoot 80# bows. If he was telling the truth, then it's obvious he didn't have a clue about tuning. You might not get a pass-through with a poorly tuned 80# bow, but a well-tuned 40# bow will slide on through like a hot knife through butter.

"Fast Flight" isn't anywhere near the first major improvement in bowstring material. Do you use stinging nettle fiber for your string? Sinew? Squirrel hide? If not, then you must be "into" those new-fangled products. :lmao:

35# being the min poundage for most states,
if they felt 35# wasnt enough sure regs would indicate higher min,
i been shooting a 60-70# and have been looking for a 35# for small game,
would like the ease and speed of drawing a light bow over +60#

for big game, although legal, would be hesitant to go with 35# bow,
but would probably go with a 40-50# bow,
lighter poundage does make it easier to keep your bow steady and on the mark longer.

Lbr
 

If you have an untuned bow I don't see how you could hit a deer anyway. An 80 pound bow and it won't pass through the lung area of a deer? You think that is a tuning problem ? I have been at this a long time, apparently longer than you. I made a lot of my own bows, hundreds of strings for people getting into this "Traditional" nonsense, and plenty of arrows. I won't put a nock position on a string. A stick bow is a personal thing and has to suit the guy shooting it. I may answer some questions, but you can not get the "feel" of a bow for someone else. There is half a dozen things that affect the problems you mentioned and none of them has anything to do with "Tuning".

Someone that knows how to shoot can get away with a lot. A few years ago Bill Leslie borrowed a selfbow from one fellow, some wood arrows from another, and even though they weren't matched at all he placed in a big tournament.

I'm not in the same league as Bill, but I can take an untuned bow and mismatched arrows and still hit a target at reasonable hunting ranges. The simple fact of the matter is an arrow that isn't flying straight, i.e. isn't tuned to the bow, will not penetrate well.

I don't know what else it could be. That kind of poundage would push a blunt point through the lungs of a deer if the arrow were flying straight. The only way I can think of where it wouldn't penetrate is if the arrow were flying near sideways, i.e. not tuned.

Could be, but that has nothing to do with anything. I've seen folks that have been shooting literally for 40+ years that knew less about what they were doing than some guys shooting just a few years. FWIW, I've been shooting traditional bows for close to 20 years--somewhere between 15 and 20.

I never said otherwise.

What are they? I bet I can relate most, if not all, to tuning.

Chad

I was out of town for a while. It is easy to see why an 80# bow will not pas through a deer's lung area. I hunt land open to the public and always did. I see "hunters" sitting in one fence row and shooting at deer 60-70 yards across the field. That is the only reason to shoot an 80# bow when hunting deer, more range. I don't doubt that he is shooting the lightest arrows and heads he can find to get more speed. I know two people (very well) that shot deer in the shoulder (accidentally) with compounds over 55#. The arrows bounced off the shoulders. The arrows were very light and the heads were of the chisel point style. I screwed up and hit one in the shoulder with a 43# bow and it broke out a piece of bone and penetrated the heart, actually coming out of the other side of the heart. I use Zwickey or Bear 2 blade heads. His arrows may be under spined for the weight of the bow. That absorbs a lot of energy until the arrow clears the bow. The main reason he won't get a pass through is probably that he knows nothing about deer anatomy and is hitting them really high or too far forward. The quickest way to slow down an arrow in a deer is to hit solid meat. I have been hunting with a bow for over 40 years, and it is obvious that you are a target shooter and not a hunter when it comes to recurves and longbows. There is a big difference.

If you shoot the same grains per pound, you won't get any more range from an 80# bow than a 35# bow. He blamed his lack of success on his wood arrows. Wood arrows aren't normally light. IMO there is no reason to use an 80# bow on whitetails, unless you just want to and can.

Could have been. That relates to tuning. Causes bad arrow flight.

Hmmm...I thought it was to hit solid bone. I normally get pass-throughs.

It's obvious you don't know anything about me, and didn't make a good guess.

Really? What would that be? The reason I ask is because the best "target shooters" I know of (a couple of World Champions and a local guy that was really good) are also some of the most sucessful hunters I know. Maybe nobody told them about the big difference in shooting animals and targets? :confused0024: :confused::confused2::jaw::eek::happy0157:
Chad

The few times I hit bone (ribs mostly, shoulder once) my broad heads cut right through the bone. You hit high and get into the solid meat and the drag on the shaft will stop that arrow in a hurry. Same if you hit too far front. A lung shot is not what I would call "solid meat". Maybe you don't butcher your own deer and don't know any better. I find a lot of dead deer and arrow penetration seems to be a real problem lately. It has nothing to do with "Tuning", but is usually traced to extra light shafts and junky expensive heads. Who cares if the arrow passes through the deer anyway. If you cut both lungs or the heart or arteries the deer is dead. Don't give me one of those"I know a guy stories" about a double lung hit that got away. One lung maybe, two no. I like bowhunting, but for every deer drug out, one is hit and lost. People should stop blaming their equipment and spend more time studying what they are hunting and learning about their equipment.
If you use the same grain arrow out of a 40 pound bow and a 70# bow the 70# is going farther. I have a very short 70# longbow(I doubt I can still draw it) and the speed and distance it shoots is awesome.

Whitetail ribs won't stop much. A solid shoulder hit will stop most arrows.

There you go assuming again. You'd do a lot better to ask.

FYI, I've butchered/helped butcher more deer than most have seen dead. My brother and I get recruited every year by friends and neighbors, because we know what we are doing. We've been butchering all sorts of game animals, and for years our own hogs, since we were kids.

Unless you are seeing all these deer get hit, you are just assuming again. Deer are about as hard to penetrate as a paper sack, if you are getting good arrow flight and use a decent head. All have an effect. Even with a lousy head, if you get decent flight and shot placement you can shoot through a deer without having to go heavy in poundage.

I do. I like good blood trails.

Yeah, I understand. That's like trying to tell me "tuning doesn't matter".

Yeah, and? Who was blaming their equipment? Learning about your equipment includes tuning it for the best flight and the least noise, for hunting anyway.

Usually, if the arrow doesn't break. If you use the same grain arrow out of either a 40# or 70# bow, one arrow tuned for that bow and the other isn't, the one that is tuned for that bow will travel further. That's because with proper tuning you get a better transfer of energy, and you don't loose as much energy through bad/wobbly flight. That's why you get better penetration with tuned equipment. That's pretty basic, or at least I thought it was. Something I thought most any hunter would know--comes will learning about the animal and your equipment.

Chad

Almost everything you said is just going in a circle. I could go to heavier heads and take the feathers off my arrows. How is that for tuning? Back in the day when I used only feathers, I kept two or three arrows in my quiver with solid 3 blade heads just in case I got caught in a heavy rain. The heavy head will allow you to shoot with wet feathers at reasonable ranges. How is that for tuning? By the way, checking the spine on an arrow has nothing to do with the weight of an arrow. If you don't understand how spineing an arrow is done, buy aluminum it is already done for you. The different weights of an arrow really do not matter that much for hunting. If you stick with the same type of wood the shafts will be close enough in weight to each other. If you bought real scrap shafts, the weight may vary from end to end. I always balance them in the middle on something real thin and the heavy end is the head end. None of this is tuning. It is being a bow hunter. If you don't have the interest to learn how to do these things on your own, stay out of the woods and shoot on target ranges. I think I have had enough "Tuning" lessons for now.

How so?

Makes no sense.

Still makes no sense. I can shoot with wet feathers at reasonble ranges just as well as I can with dry feathers, with the exact same broadheads. Changing the broadhead weight will skew the spine of the arrow.

I never said it did. I have scales for one, spine testers for the other.

Even with aluminum (or carbon) you need a basic understanding of arrow spine, for tuning purposes.

Depends. On a close shot, accuracy won't suffer...but arrow weight also affects noise and penetration.

Depends on what you call "close enough". I have some ACME Premium POC's that vary by 100 grains per shaft or more.

I don't consider ACME Premiums "scrap".

So, you do pay attention to at least some aspects of tuning. Good deal.

Whatever. Most archers call it tuning, whether they are shooting paper, foam, or fur.

Actually most of the guys on the target ranges go into a lot more detail to be sure they get the most from their target set-ups and their hunting set-ups.

Just holler when you are ready for more. Always willing to help.

Chad

LBR just a target shooter. LMAO.

I am a bowyer. I build all my equipment and I have been tuning not only my long/recurved bows, but the arrows as well. Wonder where this info will lead??? lol.

New trad hunters, stay clear of this info.. Someone has no clue what they are talking about.

Hey Burnie--good to see you!

I had fun with that one. Poor guy obviously doesn't get out much....

Chad