bows...shooting question
 

I havent shot a 3-d meet in 10 years or so.

i normally shoot 45-50lbs bows...at 20 yards...but i recently picked up a CM longhorn at 56# and it zips an arrow pretty good..... i notice im more consistant with my elevation with this bow...and when im off a bit its left or right by a hand or so....

with my 45# Attila when im off its usually up and down.

i notice that im more consistant with my 56# bow and ive only had it for a few weeks.
now i know that the bows are 2 different bows but with the CM Attila wich is 45# im missing up and down so its not a form problem its an aim problem.

with the Longhorn its left and right so im doing something with my wrong with my wrist...i can tell when i release when its good or bad...so i need to just keep shooting that bow a little more...i know how to fix it...i just have to be conscious of it when im shooting.

I guess my question is do you guys notice that you are more accurate with higher poundage bows??? What Poundage do the better 3d guys shoot???? Im thinking i might want to try a bow in the 60-65 lb range. Im comfortable with the 56lbs. and i think 60 would not be a problem. what made me really want to try a higher poundage was seeing some footage of Ricky Welch and how flat that arrow was out of his bow...and just how accurate he was with it.

I have a cleaner release with high poundage bows. It seems with low poundage, I have so much control, I have to really concentrate on my release.

I had a 66lb black widow for years, and shot it great. I was bad to short draw it. But cleanest releases ever. Just hurt my shoulders and quit.

i dont have any problems with the shoulders i do notice the extra poundage in my fingers thou....hurts and wears them out after a while. And im only 30

If you notice lots of guys buy these super thick stiff gloves so they have less control on the release, or it slides off. Think its the same concept.

What happens to me with heavy bows is one second of lack of attention, I can hurt myself. usually its when I try to draw too fast, without having my bowarm locked. Like Asbell recommends. I wonder how many shoulders that man's technique has hurt?

Heavier poundage doesn't make you shoot faster arrows--lighter arrows do. If you are shooting 10 gpp, then you'll get the same trajectory from a 30# bow as a 70# bow, all else being equal.

However, as noted, you may be getting a better release with the heavier draw weight, which will give you better performance. One of my demons is my release, and I do better with heavier draw weights.

Most all the good shooters I know/know of shoot 50# or less. Rod Jenkins usually shoots bows in the low 40's.

Proper tuning, proper nock fit, etc. will also pick up a fps here and there, but my guess is you are getting a better release and that's where the biggest difference is, unless you are using more gpp with the lighter bow.

Chad

What LBR sed.
The higher poundage is probably ripping the string out of your fingers cleaner. From a competition point of view, since you mention 3D, any improvement in accuracy that you see from 60# + will show up on the first few targets, then that gain will be eroded over next 40 or 50 targets that you shoot during the rest of the day. That weight WILL grind on you during a competition. By the end of the day you'll consider yourself lucky to just draw the bow, and actually hitting anything will be a matter of luck. This also destroys confidence, not just for that day, but for the next time you compete as well. I've been doing this for a day or two now and see guys make that mistake time and again.
If you're serious about competing, work on developing your form, clean up your release, and get your self a competition set up, 40# draw and some arrows down around 8 or 6 grains arrow weight per pound of draw weight. Succeeding in competition means using that muscle between your ears as well as the ones in your arms.

i got my arrows for the 45# bow loaded up with 175 grain tips to get them to fly like darts...i didnt want to shoot a wimpy 1916 so yes i have a heavy arrow for that bow not sure of the actual grains. yes the Longhorn shoots much faster and flatter than the Atilla the way i have the bows matched with their setup/arrows.

Chad you and i both know that its impossible to Build a 300 grain arrow at say 29inch length for 10gpp out of a 30# bow and get it to fly right....youd have to use a easton redline or something. and then you have the fact that the lighter arrow will loose bunches of speed/momentum after about 15 yards or so down range. so no a 30# bow will never shoot as flat as a 70# bow in the real world.

also...im not gonna shoot a setup in 3-d that i wouldnt take hunting. im not really worried about winning a meet...just getting in some good practice. Im pretty efficient, and dont tire out very easy. i think i could shoot a 40 target shoot no problem.

i guess asking what guys use for 3-d was a bad thing to do....i figured guys were going out their with their hunting setups. Thats what i and most that i knew used to do with are compounds anyway...i guess i should ask what the farthest stake is that most shoots have.... At a compound shoot do you shoot from ladies or youth stakes say 25-30 yard max??? or you dont go to compound meets?? round here Trad meets are too far to travel just too do some shooting and not very often so a compound meet is my option. ive looked at the results for the local club and there are about 10 trad shooters

Of course there are limitations, but the rule remains the same--less gpp is where you will get more speed, all else being equal.

I do use the same bows for 3-D that I use for hunting, as most folks I know do.

Shot distance can vary a lot--I'm at the TBOF state championship right now, and the shots today were anywhere from under 15 yds to 50+ yds--and the closest shot on the range was the toughest one IMO because it was a very tight shot between two logs.

this has caught my interest and i didnt have anythig better to do at the time...Bulls vs Heat in a minute. so i gathered some info and jotted a few ideas down.

"When shooting both arrows out of the same bow, the lighter arrow will of course be faster
at point blank range. However, the heavier arrow will leave the bow with more kinetic
energy and momentum due to the bow being more efficient at delivering energy into the arrow."

"At typical archery distances, the lighter arrow will almost always maintain a higher speed
than the heavier arrow. Even though the lighter arrow is slowing down faster,
it started out much faster and the heavier arrow is also slowing down.
Because the heavier arrow is decelerating at a slower rate, it will maintain a higher
percentage of it’s original speed than the faster arrow.
Also remember that the heavier arrow has more kinetic energy and momentum than the lighter
arrow at launch already. This gap only grows larger as the arrows progress downrange."

above info taken from:

http://archeryreport.com/2011/01/hea...s-speed-power/

note that The above is when the arrows are fired out of the same bow....
if the arrows are matched to fired out of their respective mates for a bow....
and leave the bows at the same speed the lighter one drops more
because it loses its speed/momentum more rapidly.
at least this is what i have experienced...myself.

i plugged Numbers ito stu mac dynamic spine and came up with numbers
using the same brand bow, same drawlengths, just one at 30# one at 60#

the 30# bow needed a Redline 900 (good guess earlier i suppose)
@29" long witha 85grain tip +20grains for insert came out with
Total / G.P.P / F.O.C / FPS / K.E.
290gr / 9.7 / 15.4 % / 188 / 22.9

60# bow needed a 2216 @29" 175+20 tip and insert
TOtal / G.p.p / F.o.C / FPS / K.E.
560gr / 9.3 / 16% / 192 / 45.9


These arrows supposedly would mate and fly well out of their bows.
the final dynamic arrow and bow were within 2 of eachother
everything came out really good i was surprised by being able to get a simular FOC%. GPP FOC and FPS all simular
and the total grains and KE came out double basically.


Does the lighter arrow with roughly 50% the KE of the heavier one,
drop Twice as much at say 30 yards than the heavier one????
(does it double the arc of the arrow path, since everything has to be relative???)

if this is the case i would think that the heavier drawing bow
Assuming you can shoot it comfortable
is the better choice especially in a hunting situation. and a 3d situation if you can handle it
over time.

this is pretty good too and kindof gives the formulas for what i was wondering ...but it doesnt calculate in the effect of drag on the arrows
http://www.capeoutdoorsports.co.za/c...angleshots.htm

I've never bothered with the formulas, and couldn't tell you the FOC of any set-up I have ever shot or currently shoot.

I just know what works for me, and what I see at tournaments--from the worst to the best. You'll see the ones that are really focused on score shooting lighter arrows. That was (is) one of the big selling points with metal risers and some ILF limbs--you can go as light as 5 gpp and not blow them up. Same goes with wheel bows--that's one reason there is an IBO speed and an AMO speed rating--one allows a lighter arrow, and that's one of the benchmarks the bows are judged by.

I'm really simple with it. I shoot what I like, and what I can shoot accurately. I listen to folks (one in particular) who has a ton more experience than I do, and who has proven himself in the field and in competition. And, of course, I use my own experience--works better than a calculator for me.

What do you shoot at your meets Chad?

im not interested in ILF bows or shooting a record round...im interested in being satisfied with were my ability is, and challenging myself... not making something as easy as possible.
but a little bit easier. i currently cannot practice like i want so my vision for the shot is not quite there and my judgment is suffering a little. Im thinking a higher poundage bow will help remedy some of that.

Usually I shoot my longbow, but sometimes I shoot a selfbow and once in a blue moon I'll shoot recurve for fun. They range in weight from 42# to 66# (at my draw length). Arrows are usually carbon (recurve), aluminum (recurve), or wood (longbow and selfbows). The only arrows I know the weight on (kinda) are the longbow arrows--they are around 9-9.5 gpp. I don't conciously make any elevation adjustments when switching from one to the other, and it seems to depend on which way the wind is blowing as to which bow I'll shoot better on a given day. Usually I do best with my longbow, because I shoot it a lot more than the rest, but it's not a guarantee.

I am the same way. All my bows are in the 60+lb area. My release is cleaner due to the string getting away from my fingers quicker. or that is how ive figured it. When I shoot a lighter bow, it feels like my release is not as good. Some thing I have noticed with others who go up a in weight, they tend to hand torque more.

Yep--I have to work on my release more with lighter bows. More weight is a crutch or band-aid for a bad release, rather than a cure. It's like putting bigger feathers on arrows that don't fly straight, rather than matching arrows to the bow. I've been working on my release for years, but some days it still gets me.

Like Burnie noted, if you go heavier, it can get you in other ways. Get tired quicker, short-draw, torque, etc. "Everything is a trade-off"--no exceptions here.

The best thing I know of for getting a better release is learning how to properly use back tension. I thought I knew, until I got a short lesson a while back--now I'm working on that more.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again--the more I learn about this sport, the more I realize how little I really know.

[quote=LBR;3782912]I've never bothered with the formulas, and couldn't tell you the FOC of any set-up I have ever shot or currently shoot.
quote]

In trad, I find it more important to deal with over all mass. My hunting arrows are alway over 620 grains total, with close to 20% foc. But if you are just shooting at targets, all that matters is how well the bow likes the set up. Not many targets care how well the arrow penetrates.;)

True, but I shoot critters too. So far, pass-throughs are the norm. If I shot borderline draw weights and/or light arrows, I'd probably pay more attention to things like FOC, but all I worry about is accuracy and an arrow that flies straight.

I read somewhere I thought where Olympian trad shooters had FOC's In the high 20's. I really think It helps as It can help make up for bad releases and such.

Apha Capo,
Original question:
"I guess my question is do you guys notice that you are more accurate with higher poundage bows??? What Poundage do the better 3d guys shoot???? "
Answered:
Higher poundage is less accurate over time
The good tournament shooters use 40# to 45#
I'm sorry that reality doesn't fit your preconcieved notions.

the best shooters around here shoot light. My 3D bow is 40#, and with proper arrows shoots as fast or faster than a 60 pounder. It sure upped my scores, especially the last 6 targets or so in a shoot.

I shot a tournament Saturday--actually shot two rounds (longbow and selfbow), the second not too far behind the first, for a total of 64 targets (plus warm-ups).

I did ok, not great, but my point is my score didn't go down toward the end, or even in the second round--at least not due to bow weight.

I pull [email protected] on my longbow; 64@30 on my selfbow. My selfbow score (shot it second) was 11 points lower than my longbow score, mainly because I didn't spend enough time warming up with it and making the transition.

When I switch from longbow to selfbow, I shoot left for a while. Took me until target 13 before I could hit the "10" with my selfbow, because I kept shooting left.

On the last 9 targets, I shot 7 "tens" in a row. Then we stopped at the next-to-last target and talked a while (had to wait for a group), and when it was my shot I went stupid. One of the easiest shots on the course, I just ran up and shot, and shot right over it....duhhhh.....then I shot an "8" on the last target. Had I stayed on my streak, I would have shot 1 point higher on the second round.

I missed two targets each round. On both, I missed the "bonus"--mis-judged it and shot too hight; and on both I missed one regular shot and both were "gimme" shots...really easy, and I took them for granted and missed. Just plain stupid on my part.

The better archers generally do shoot lighter, and if you are over-bowed it will tell on you, especially when you get tired....but some folks can handle 60+ targets with 60+ lbs, if they practice enough.