Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
12-18-2008, 09:01 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NE Kansas
Posts: 1,101
Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
I'm thinking seriously of taking a shot at building a self bow, hopefully suitable for hunting deer. I'm a complete newbie.
I've got access to several species of wood, but I was thinking about one of these:
1. Shagbark hickory--easily obtained and I'm gleaning that it's easy for beginners.
2. Osage orange--Some sources say this is not a good wood for a beginner as it can be hard to work. I'd prefer using this wood if possible, but want to be realistic about my abilities.
3. Locust-- reading indicates it's also good for beginners. We have a species of locust that is common here. Don't know exact name, but the bark is covered in thorns.
Anyone have any insights? These woods are also easily located in my area: Mulberry, Black walnut, Juniper, Ash, Elm, Oaks, red cedar.
Edit:
I'll add two more questions:
1. Does the back of the bow need to be the outer edge and growth ring or does it matter? My readings have conflicted or been vague about which part of the wood to use.
2. Does it make a difference if I use a limb or do I need to use the trunk of the tree for the bow?
I've got access to several species of wood, but I was thinking about one of these:
1. Shagbark hickory--easily obtained and I'm gleaning that it's easy for beginners.
2. Osage orange--Some sources say this is not a good wood for a beginner as it can be hard to work. I'd prefer using this wood if possible, but want to be realistic about my abilities.
3. Locust-- reading indicates it's also good for beginners. We have a species of locust that is common here. Don't know exact name, but the bark is covered in thorns.
Anyone have any insights? These woods are also easily located in my area: Mulberry, Black walnut, Juniper, Ash, Elm, Oaks, red cedar.
Edit:
I'll add two more questions:
1. Does the back of the bow need to be the outer edge and growth ring or does it matter? My readings have conflicted or been vague about which part of the wood to use.
2. Does it make a difference if I use a limb or do I need to use the trunk of the tree for the bow?
12-18-2008, 10:35 AM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
Osage is the best of the woods you posted. The problems come with the knots. Osage tends to have lots of pin knots. It is also hard to find a straight stave. You either have to work around the character (fancy name for bends and knots ), or straighten it out with heat of steam. Knots are not a big deal, as long as you leave them and leave about two rings of wood around them. If you try to pull them off, they will pull splinters in the ring you are trying to chase. Osage is by far the best bow wood you mentioned. Hickory is rather easy to work with, and easy to get a straight piece. Pecan is usually sold as Hickory and will work ok for a selfbow but pignut and the other true hickory’s are better. I have never made a selfbow with Locus, and as a board bow, they are good bows. I do know lots of people who have made selfbows from it and like it. Mulberry is a cousin of Osage. You can get a good piece that has easy rings to chase. I have not made a selfbow with it, but could see where it would make a easy wood to work with. Hackberry is a lot like Mulberry, and I have made selfbows with it, and they were fine bows. Id stear clear of black walnut. It makes a good core wood with a backing and even better with a belly, but it is horrible in tension and would break real easy without a backing. Be careful with junipers and cedars. Mountain juniper is fine with wide designs, but most all others are just plan sorry for making any kind of bow with, unless you make a lam bow and put it under glass. Cedar is horrible. Only bows I’ve used it on are glass bows. You can get by with any wood when you put it under glass. Ash is a brittle wood. With the right design, it works ok but needs a backing. I would not even mess with it if I were you. I, personally have never seen anyone make a selfbow with it and the backed bows I’ve seen with it are not very impressive. Oaks are ok as board bows with good straight grain, but you have to have a good design if you are not going to back them. White oak is great in tension and is very easy to work with. I’ve never seen a stave bow made with it, but many self, boardbows. One set back with the oaks is they take lots of set. I built a selfbow with a white oak board. I steamed in 7" of reflex, and when I was done, I had 1" of string follow. Not good. Just think, If I had went with a flat design I would have had 8" of follow.
As for chasseing the rings; Look for the thickest dark colored ring (heart wood, not the light colored sap wood.) You want to remove the sap wood from above the ring you choose to chase. I like to take a fine, felt tip pen and outline the sapwood ring above the heart wood I plan to chase. That way I can see it all around the stave and not lose it. I also like to work from one end and work my way down the stave. Its best to make a slope and slowly remove wood from the slop, till you reach the end of your stave. Once you remove the sap wood above the heart wood ring you chose,you will have your back.You will find that the sap wood makes a different noise when you are scraping it off than heart wood does. I think it sounds crunchier. Do not cut out your bow design until you get that ring chased, that way you can draw a midline through the stave to get the straightest design and not have to do much bending.
As for branches; Anything that is thick enough and has a good ring ratio.
Something else to consider. When you cure your staves, make sure to seal the ends with paint, varnish, or wax to keep them from splitting while they dry. And on woods like Osage or Black locus, keep the bark on until they have dried. If you remove the cambium, it will dry to fast and case the stave to split.
As for chasseing the rings; Look for the thickest dark colored ring (heart wood, not the light colored sap wood.) You want to remove the sap wood from above the ring you choose to chase. I like to take a fine, felt tip pen and outline the sapwood ring above the heart wood I plan to chase. That way I can see it all around the stave and not lose it. I also like to work from one end and work my way down the stave. Its best to make a slope and slowly remove wood from the slop, till you reach the end of your stave. Once you remove the sap wood above the heart wood ring you chose,you will have your back.You will find that the sap wood makes a different noise when you are scraping it off than heart wood does. I think it sounds crunchier. Do not cut out your bow design until you get that ring chased, that way you can draw a midline through the stave to get the straightest design and not have to do much bending.
As for branches; Anything that is thick enough and has a good ring ratio.
Something else to consider. When you cure your staves, make sure to seal the ends with paint, varnish, or wax to keep them from splitting while they dry. And on woods like Osage or Black locus, keep the bark on until they have dried. If you remove the cambium, it will dry to fast and case the stave to split.
12-18-2008, 10:43 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
Interesting. Isn't a knock on hickory that while very strong it is susceptible to moisture absorption, even once sealed, making a slower bow, and usually recommended for drier climates? I don't know, haven't yet made a bow, but have done lots of research planning too and I often see this claim.
As for red cedar, one of the first pope and young books I read had plans in it for building a long bow from eastern red cedar, I think it was their wood of choice, stating it had excellent tension and compression properties. I think it would make a beautiful bow, looks wise, but it's in rare supply here and as for a board bow every lumber yard I've checked has western cedar, which is more orange and not bow friendly from what I've been told.
As for red cedar, one of the first pope and young books I read had plans in it for building a long bow from eastern red cedar, I think it was their wood of choice, stating it had excellent tension and compression properties. I think it would make a beautiful bow, looks wise, but it's in rare supply here and as for a board bow every lumber yard I've checked has western cedar, which is more orange and not bow friendly from what I've been told.
12-18-2008, 10:52 AM
#5
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
ORIGINAL: Rangeball
Interesting. Isn't a knock on hickory that while very strong it is susceptible to moisture absorption, even once sealed, making a slower bow, and usually recommended for drier climates? I don't know, haven't yet made a bow, but have done lots of research planning too and I often see this claim.
As for red cedar, one of the first pope and young books I read had plans in it for building a long bow from eastern red cedar, I think it was their wood of choice, stating it had excellent tension and compression properties. I think it would make a beautiful bow, looks wise, but it's in rare supply here and as for a board bow every lumber yard I've checked has western cedar, which is more orange and not bow friendly from what I've been told.
Interesting. Isn't a knock on hickory that while very strong it is susceptible to moisture absorption, even once sealed, making a slower bow, and usually recommended for drier climates? I don't know, haven't yet made a bow, but have done lots of research planning too and I often see this claim.
As for red cedar, one of the first pope and young books I read had plans in it for building a long bow from eastern red cedar, I think it was their wood of choice, stating it had excellent tension and compression properties. I think it would make a beautiful bow, looks wise, but it's in rare supply here and as for a board bow every lumber yard I've checked has western cedar, which is more orange and not bow friendly from what I've been told.
12-18-2008, 10:59 AM
#6
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
I just went and looked up Junipers in my woods notes and here is what I found on junipers;
"JUNIPERS All junipers make great bows. As is true of wood in general, the denser the juniper the shorter or narrower a bow can be per given weight and draw. Juniper, of all the bowwoods, is possibly the best match for sinew--as per redcedar, it is thicker, wider, and less stiff per mass than other woods. The hardest part of making a juniper bow is finding a long-enough straight stave. Two short staves can be spliced together at the grip. Ishi’s people used mountain juniper branches before the ax arrived. Saplings and branches two-inches in diameter or less work fine, especially if sinew backed. Inner bark can sometimes be confused with surface sapwood, leading to broken backs. "
"JUNIPERS All junipers make great bows. As is true of wood in general, the denser the juniper the shorter or narrower a bow can be per given weight and draw. Juniper, of all the bowwoods, is possibly the best match for sinew--as per redcedar, it is thicker, wider, and less stiff per mass than other woods. The hardest part of making a juniper bow is finding a long-enough straight stave. Two short staves can be spliced together at the grip. Ishi’s people used mountain juniper branches before the ax arrived. Saplings and branches two-inches in diameter or less work fine, especially if sinew backed. Inner bark can sometimes be confused with surface sapwood, leading to broken backs. "
12-18-2008, 11:01 AM
#7
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
Found this on cedars:
"CEDARS: western red, white .32, Port Orford .43, Alaska .44. Low SG cedars are very brittle, and about the worst possible bowwood candidates. More like balsa than bowwood. There is always the rare piece of oldgrowth heartwood or compression wood that could do a bit better. When choosing any conifer choose thin-ringed wood if possible. "
"CEDARS: western red, white .32, Port Orford .43, Alaska .44. Low SG cedars are very brittle, and about the worst possible bowwood candidates. More like balsa than bowwood. There is always the rare piece of oldgrowth heartwood or compression wood that could do a bit better. When choosing any conifer choose thin-ringed wood if possible. "
12-18-2008, 11:08 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
I have never made a selfbow with Locus, and as a board bow, they are good bows.
12-18-2008, 11:11 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
ORIGINAL: BobCo19-65
When you heat the resins in Locust, they tend to crystalize. Nice part is that you can find nice straightstaves with real nice rings.
I have never made a selfbow with Locus, and as a board bow, they are good bows.
12-18-2008, 11:17 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Building a selfbow--wood recommendations
forkhorn, I just started last year. My first was an osage. Osage is great if you have some guidance from an experienced bowyer looking over your shoulder. Chasing that ring is the hard part. Once you figure that out,its just like hickory or anything else. Hard part about osage is finding a straight stave. And if you have to heat it, this has proved tricky for me, and again, guidance from an experienced bowyer is invaluable.
Second wood I dealt with is pacific Yew. A bunch of people said I would love it, but I hate it.I have about finished this bow, and am in the middle of test shooting, and sinewing the back.
Third wood I have messed around with is black locusts. I have been playin around with testing the tillering of it with some scrap pieces. This wood, I have found needs to be worked slow and easy. Not a beginners wood.
Fourth is pignut hickory. Man, I should have started out with this wood. Easy to work, you can make a bunch of mistakes and still come out with a tough bow.
I recommend a person starts with hickory. Might turn out a little sluggish, but it won't break very easily. It will teach you to tiller, and usually very easy to find staight staves with no twist. Once a person gets good with tillering a bow nice and even, move on to locust, or osage. I myself don't think i will build another yew bow.
Second wood I dealt with is pacific Yew. A bunch of people said I would love it, but I hate it.I have about finished this bow, and am in the middle of test shooting, and sinewing the back.
Third wood I have messed around with is black locusts. I have been playin around with testing the tillering of it with some scrap pieces. This wood, I have found needs to be worked slow and easy. Not a beginners wood.
Fourth is pignut hickory. Man, I should have started out with this wood. Easy to work, you can make a bunch of mistakes and still come out with a tough bow.
I recommend a person starts with hickory. Might turn out a little sluggish, but it won't break very easily. It will teach you to tiller, and usually very easy to find staight staves with no twist. Once a person gets good with tillering a bow nice and even, move on to locust, or osage. I myself don't think i will build another yew bow.