RE: aiming a recurve
 

interesting discussion.As usual a few tangents that take away from the original point. it's bound to happen on a big opinion type post.
my .02: I was told and tend to agree that you should FIRST focus on your fundemental s of form.ie:how you grip the bow each time and your knocking/anchor point.Forget the target until you can repeat these consistently.then start close,as othersa have mentioned.Someone else also told me once you can do those consistently to just toss a tennis ball out in front of you on the lawn and draw and fire at it.Alittle different distances each time .Point the bow hand at it and TRUST your aim.You'll be surprised what you can do if you just quit thinking about it.Lastly YOU HAve to practice,practice,practice.
Quit thinking and have fun.Good Luck

RE: aiming a recurve
 

thanks for your comments, this is good advice

RE: aiming a recurve
 

ok well this has helped some , but for real baseball and football players do aim. I know cause i ahve played my whole life and no how to aim them. BUt im starting to get how to aim it. I ahve to aim real low.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

kza, that is the "gap". The further back you are from the target, the less gap you will have, until you get to your "point on" distance--the distance where (at full draw) you put the point of the arrow where you want it to hit. Beyond that, the gap goes in the opposite direction. If you shoot split finger, the gap will probably be somewhere between 50-70 yds. You can reduce the gap at closer distancesby shooting 3 fingers under the nock.

Good luck!

Chad

RE: aiming a recurve
 

is it eaier to **** 3 under or split, cause i have been shooting split.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I should have said your point-on distance should be between 50-70 yds.

Some folks prefer to shoot 3-under, some prefer split. I couldn't say if one is easier than the other for everyone.

Chad

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I shoot 3 under and it seems to work out better for me.Some pro's say it stress the bottom limb more then the top though.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Maybe a bit, but in 9 years of shooting 3 under, I've never had a bow issue develope that was related to how I shoot. And I shoot a lot of arrows in a weeks time.

yep, it'll reduce the gap compared to shooting split. Where you decide to anchor on your face will also effect the size of the gap at any given range.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I shot my box today with 3 under to c how it would do. it was amazing, i was hitting middle everytime. I hit my rabbit target from 20 yards for the 1st time ever. thank this has really helped alot.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I shoot 3 under. I couldn't imagine changing now. But if I had to start over, I would shoot split finger. It just makes more sense. Most bows are tillered for split. You have even pressure below and above arrow. I have had tuning issues with split figer tillered bows with me shooting 3 under.

Reason I went to 3 under was the first longbow was too short and had too much finger pinch. If I had one of those fancy tabs, that are pinchless, I would be shooting split today.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Schultzy...., do you feel that way about all of us?[&o]:D It sure doesn't fit me. If I shoot a pie plate group at 60 yards with my compound, I guarantee you I'll be standing there mentally kicking myself in the butt and trying to figure out how I'm screwing up. I'd do the same thing if I shot a pie plate group at 15 yards with my longbow. At 60 yards with my compound, or at 15 yards with the longbow,if I'm not hitting inside a 3" group, I consider it a "miss".

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Oh hell no Chief, you know me better then that! I just hear it all to often in the bow hunting forum that people are tickled pink that they can hit pie plates at 40+ yards so they can then take shots at live game after hitting there so called pie plates. Chief your much better then that, there's just a bunch who aren't!

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Hi, i'm new to this forum, and new to archery. I'm interested in "traditional"/"Primitive" archery. I got into archery because of my interest in learning about ancient/primitive technologies and skills. As a result I want to learn to shoot "instinctive". I want to learn to shoot the way humans all over the world did for thousands of years, without sights and mathematical calculations based on yardage. The problem is that I really can't understand how this "instinctive shooting" works. It seems anyone who claims to shoot using this method says simply to pay no mind to the bow and arrow, just concentrate on the bullseye and shoot. But in reality you could stare right at the target and point the bow at the sky, the ground, or anywhere in between and it isn't going to hit unless it is pointed in the right direction! It seems to me then, there must be some "aiming" involved, whether conscious or not.The same thing can be said of the baseball analogy that has been made on this thread. You can throw a ball to some one and stare right into the catchers mit and throw the ball in a different direction. Normally though, with throwing a ball people would naturally throw the ball somewhat in the direction of the catcher if they were actually trying to.But with a ball the method of propulsion is your arm, which unlike a bow has been attached to you for your whole life! Regardless though, when you throw a ball, you must be aiming in some way.If you are using your eyes to do something, you must be aiming, even if it is natural, or becomes natural. The same can be said of picking up a pencil, or walking out your door.Could it be then that instinctive shooting is really just an archers acquired ability to calculate where to aim at a given distance (the distance being sensed generally by sight rather than being measured)? Another thought: If one archer who shoots gap nailed the bullsye of a target, and another archer, an instinctive shooter nails it standing in the same spot, they must have both had the same gap between their points and the bullseye, though the instinctive shooter didn't consciously aim. He must have been doing the ame thing, just subconciously! Ther is only one bullseye on a target, and one line of aim on earth you can take to shoot it!

Anyway, thats my essay ;)! Some of you might say im thinking to hard about the whole thing, and that i should just go try it, but I tried and it isn't working out for me. I miss my target completely almost every time, and i'm alfully close! hopefully some of you instinctive shooters can help me better understand how this works!

RE: aiming a recurve
 

talmid, you ask a lot of good questions and make a lot of good points.

You could also have that arrow pointed right where it needs to be and not have correct form which is going to though the arrow off. Or you could have a big mismatch in your equipement.

If you are starting you need to start with good form. To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% convinced that there are many people out there that shoot 100% instinctive. There is some real conditioning involved with shooting. I call my method conditioned instinctive. It most definetely did not start out that way, it kind of evolved to where I know how everything needs to be lined up through conditioning without realy looking at the arrow.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Ok look, i started this thread and to me it is somtimes getting way off the subject. But here is the thing, im having to shot to the right to make it hit in the middle.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

My best advice for any new shooter is to spend a couple years absolutely obsessed with it. Read and watch everything you can get your hands on... Some tips that I think helped me:

1. Understand and master back tension. Back tension takes care of so many other issues if properly applied.

2. Use a weight that you can comfortably hold while you apply back tension.

3.Shoot using the gap method. Research it on the big internet forums and really get a grasp on it.

4. Shoot 3 under, it makes gap shooting 10 times easier as it puts the arrow much closer to the target. A 12 inch gap is easier to recognize than a 28 inch gap!

After a very shot period of time, GAP becomes natural and you never even think about it.

One thing that I've learned is this..... Everyone can shoot decent groups at 15 yds, even with horrible form and poorly tuned equipment. The 20-30yd shot is what seperates the men from the boys and solid, repeatable form coupled with tuned equipment makes that much, much easier..

RE: aiming a recurve
 

If I remember correctly, Fred Bear said.. "I pick a spot and imagine a hole there, and try to shoot through the hole". Anyway, it was something like that. I just try to hit the spot I'm looking at and let-er-go. Instintive I guess! I hit it, or I'm close99% of the time. Guess I'm lucky too.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

i tried that and it did not work.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

KZA,what arrows are you using and what pound bow?

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Excellent advice. I did it that way, pretty much. I started shooting arecurve back in the late 70s. I was young and had no one to teach me. I just shot and was developing a bit of an instinctive style. As I got older and started hunting small game, I developed the gap method out of necessity to insure I hit the animal. I really didn't know what it was called, just took the time to find where the tip of my arrow needed to be, in relation to the target. I did so just so I could aim. As I learned about shooting, I fixed form problems and started shooting more instinctive. Just as you mentioned. People will developed a kinesthetic awareness after a while of gap shooting. I will now use both methods. If a deer, hog, or what ever steps out and gives me time to aim, ill gap it. If I'm fishing or shooting moving targets (like rabbits), its pure instinctive. I feel it is important to learn both. Use which ever you like the best, or both.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Could be due to hand torque or arrow spine. You might be gripping the bow as you release causeing the bow to torque. Or it could be a spine problem. Have you tuned your arrows to your bow? What I mean is, do you have the right spine (heavy/light engough spine) for your bow weight? The weights on the arrows are simply a starting point. If you have arrows too heavy a spin, you will need to keep the arrow a little longer, or put more head weight on it. If it is too light a spin, you will need to cut the arrows shorter and/or lighten the head weight. Both, over or under spined arrows will cause the arrow to hit right or left respectively. Bare shaft tunning is a great way to tune the arrow.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Which one of your eyes is dominant?? Just curious.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I am right eye dominant. I shooting arrows that say 45 -60 pounds ont them. My bow is a 55 pound bo so they should be spined right. Im goin to try to lossen my grip and c what that does.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

What size head are you pushing??

RE: aiming a recurve
 

im using a 100 grain tip.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I give.[&:]

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Practice, practice, practice my friend!! Then practice more and more. I'm not kidding either. Try different things, see what works. Always make sure you are hitting your same anchor point time and time again when you release that arrow.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Yea, i got it down some.Ive been practicing everyday and i can hit a bad target at 20 yards and that about as good as i can get for now.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Your saying at 20 yards your hitting your spots ok?

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Im hitting them a little but no perfect yet. i still have to aim to the right to hit middle.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

One thing is for sure your never going to be perfect shooting these Traditional bows. In my opinion if your hitting within 3 inches of where your looking your not doing to bad. Like a few people have said though, it does sound like your gripping your bow to much or maybe your even peaking after you release the arrow.

If your trying to shoot instinctively be sure your picking a very small spot to shoot at, not an area on the target.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

im not shooting within 3 inchs yet. I wish i could but i have not figured this thing out yet.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

You say you have to "aim" to the right to hit the middle.Assuming your arrows are spined correctly,it's possible that you're dropping your bow arm after release.Try keeping that bow up on target until that arrow hits(and move up closer from 20yds)

RE: aiming a recurve
 

You may also consider changing your anchor. You may not be getting your eye directly over the arrow. I would definitely make changes until I was zero'd in. Check your alignment and make sure you are maintaining the class "T" alignment.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

You mentioned earlier that you've been shooting for3 months. If you hadfigured it allout in that time frame,my friend, you would be aprodigy. Learning to shoot well takes good instruction,practice, time and patience. You seem to have the time to practice but, unfortunately,an internet chat forum isn'tthe best way to instruct someone in there shooting.It's better than nothing though. As Jimhinted toabove,don't worry about shooting or grouping at 20 yards just yet.Get close, 10 yards, and stay there for a bit working onconcentration, repeatable form and follow thru. When you start getting fairlyconsistantin those areas, it'll startcoming together. The absolute best thing you can do, though, is to find someone to shoot with.Someone that actually knows what they're doing. Nothingwill help more than having someone watchyou shootand give on the spotfeedback and instruction.

As for the having toaim right to hitmiddle, it could be an alignment issue, an arrow spineissue or a release issue. Try bumping your point weight up to 125 and 145 gr. and see whathappens.Be sure you're releasing in line with the arrow and not pulling your string handoff to the side upon release. Also, just learningto shoot with a recurve, I wouldn't have recommended 55#. 10-15#'s lighter would have been a better starting point.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

This was not goin to be my first choose in bow but my parents boght it for me and i could not take it back. I mean its hard but i think its more me then anything.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

What style and brand of bow are you shooting?

RE: aiming a recurve
 

Im shooting a martin x 200. I really like it but its hrd to shot.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

You mentioned you were shooting a 100 grain head? What weight and draw are you pulling? Also, what spine or weight arrow are you shooting, as well as length? This will give us a better idea if you have the right arrow for the weight and draw you are pulling.

RE: aiming a recurve
 

I done say what spine arrow it is, it just says 45-60. Im shooting a 55pound recurve with 100 grain tips and 30 inchs long.