RE: Elitist attitude
 

I do remember when P@Y was set at nothing more then 65% let off for years and also when they didn't allow the release. I voted against the use of both being I was a member, money and big companies forced the P@Y to allow these things into the new world of bow hunting. Do I like it? No, but its something I'm going to have to except weather I like it or not! Its the new way now of bow hunting, I just hope it doesn't go any further then it has.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Archer...One who uses Bow and Arrow also referd to as a Bowman......Back in the 70's you had a Elite group(recurve/longbow shooters) going after a not so elite group(i will call em compound shooters)after time most attitudes changed so now we have a Elite group of Archers(one who uses bow & arrow and get along).Now we have another group of Elite people(i will call them crossbowers) trying to fit in to the 1st groupof Elite people and its hard for them to except it, but thru time most will..But there will still be a Elite Minority group that wont except the fact that if you use a BOW and ARROW you are a ARCHER no matter how you look at it.....Thus bringing you the Elitist attitude....These Elitist attitudes are the ones who willdo more harm then good to our sport of ARCHERY....

RE: Elitist attitude
 

is there any indication it won't keep going ?

Schultzyit seems that what bowhunting and archery was, was replaced by compounds, and then the tag "traditional" was assigned to what once was bowhunting and archery.


ranger56528 What if crossbows in 10 years are allowed in all states, and they become the #1 choice of bowhunters. What if, in 10 years, bowhunting IS crossbows, and those shooting compounds have been renamed ? What if this happens, and droves of rifle hunters storm archery season, where once compounds roamed now the hills teem with crossbow bowhunters ?

Thats what happened and by your last post, its okay, fine and dandy. We're all united, right ? Except those staunch compound shooters that hate crossbows will have become elitists ...

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I've been hoping that for the past 20 years and my hopes have been dashed on pretty much an annual basis every year since. It's well beyond the point of no return and itwill go further. Further, at least, until technology takes archery gear so far that the speed and range of high tech equipment will no longer allow it to be used in special 'safety zone' units, or untilhunter success ratios get so high the seasons start being cut back or eliminated, andwe get lumped in with gun seasons.

Ifbows are lumped in with gun seasons, then that will be the end of the big archery companies. Nobody but the few diehards and wierdos will hunt with bows, or crossbows either for that matter,when they could be using rifles instead. If they won't hunt with them, they won't be buying them. No customers, no business.The big companies must know this, I think, but apparently they're either extremely short sighted about the future or areless concerned for the future of the sport than they are in making the most money possible, RIGHT NOW.

On the positive side, most of those diehard and wierdo bowhunters left overwill be US, the traditional and primitive archers. And, eventually, we'll get together and go back to the game commissions and begin the long process of getting special archery seasons set up for traditional equipment. Maybe next time we can do it right and keep it that way.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Actually, with hunter numbers going down each year and with that trend picking up speed, elitists in any weapon category should not have to worry to much about having their precious hunting season impinged on by non-elitists. Think about that while you are trying to prevent hunting by hunters.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Hey Big D, what do you think would be a good situation for all those who shoot a sharp tipped shaft powered by a string? Much of what you say has good merit and I'd like to know what your Utopia is? Personally mine is that everyone stays within the laws and everyone else shuts the heck up.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Art, you pretty much covered my concerns. I don't care what weapon an ethical, legal hunter uses--but I don't want to loose the archery season. It's a quieter and less stressful time to be in the hunting woods.

BD, I'm not wrong at all. My perspective is from a hunting and legal viewpoint: in most states, crossbows are legal for primitive weapons season, but not for archery only seasons or areas. From that perspective, a crossbow is a primitive weapon but not archery equipment--same as a muzzleloader.

No doubt the crossbow is an ancient weapon, very much "primitive" in it's roots, but IMO it's not archery equipment. If it is, then a spear, javalin, slingshot, sling and stone, atlatl,etc. etc. etc. could about as easily be included, as well as the 10/.22 that is converted to shoot bolts. I've even seen a slingshot type weapon used for propelling bowfishing arrows--that, in my eyes, doesn't change the slingshot into a bow. Primitive does not equal archery. Having an arrow as a projective does not equal archery. Being propelled by theenergy of the user does not equal archery. Etc., etc., etc.

That's my opinion, take it for what it's worth. That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee in some places.

Chad

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Wow, that was a lot of reading, or skimming.The ole "DIVIDED WE FALL" is coming to mind.We all follow are own paths,I don't have to approve of yours anymore than you approve of mine.To some it's a numbers game others say size matters.It will always just be the "hunt" for me no matter what weapon I choose,it's my path.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Bow is defined as a weapon that is made of a flexable material with a cord conected to both ends and holds the strip bent and is used to propel an arrow.
So now we have a delema....
When I read this it is my understanding that a longbow,recurve and recurve crossbow fall under this definition......

Anyway a bow is a bow in my book ;)...

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Dnk If I had stroke of the pen, law of the land ? Hmmmm. I'd give traditonal archers a piece of the archery season, reserved totally for traditional bowhunters. Why ? Because its a totally different kind of hunting. Compounds and crossbows are much closer in what they are.

ranger56528 you don't mind crossbows in general archery season then ?

LBR

Actually thats not correct Chad. Crossbows are allowed in EVERY general archery season in every state to my knowledge. You might have to have a handciap permit to use one, but legal archery weapons they are classified. Muzzleloader aren't allowed in archery season every, neither are firearms, they're not archery, it doesn't matter if you're handicap or not.

What makes you fear the loss of archery season ? Is it technology ?



thats the root of it all though isn't it ? If you don't BELIEVE it should be allowed, isn't that an elitist view ? That "hey I don't like XX weapon, I don't use it and I don't want you to either" view - thats the way I'm beginning to feel about compounds on some levels, not unlike many thinnk about crossbows.

So how am I labeled a divider ... but anti-crossbow people are not labeled ?


recurver167 so you don't mind technology increasing, and more and more atuff allowed on compounds or maybe crossbow's being allowed in archery season ?

ranger56528 that definition is true - and it excludes the eccentrics that makes compounds what they are. I mean seriously, the parallel limbs don't move hardly at all on the new bows, and they certainly get no "propel" out of them, all the energy comes from the wheels

RE: Elitist attitude
 

BigD:If I had to choose between their gadgets or not hunting at all,I would let them have them.I don't have to use all the crap,but I can't condem them for it either.If everyone hunted with a stick and string just imagine what the wounding rate would be.Traditional isn't for everyone anymore than fatchicks:).A 150" buck is a 150" buck no matter what he's taken with.I have a few good deer shot with a gun,they don't mean half as much as a meat doe I took with my recurve. I'm just saying hunt like you mean it,ethical and law abiding.Don't judge anyone unless you want to judged.IMO

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I tell you what Arthur, you have one hell of a way with words!! This to me is one excellent post, I'd like to show this to allot of bow manufactures. Very well said big guy!!!

RE: Elitist attitude
 

At what point do we come to the conclusion that if we seperate up a 3 month block of hunting time into primitive archery(which my crossbow should be included in) traditional archery(no wheels, but modern equipment) compound, crossbow, then primitive muzzeloading, modern muzzeloading, then shotgun and rifle do we end up with not only a week or so of "our season" if we are lucky but someone somewhere will whine that "their season" is not during peak time so they have no ability to harvest an animal. Allowing crossbows into archery season has never decimated deer herds or caused a huge influx of gun hunters poaring into anyones woods during archery season. The same can be said for ANY form of modern technology in archery. Is technology influencing how we hunt and increasing our chances of taking an animal?? of course. but deer herds are still growing and every year the harvest gets bigger(at least in most states). The crossbow debate will probably never have a clean end since the debate as to compounds being "bows" is still going on as well. I feel that it is a moot point. I would prefer that as "archers" we allow that there is equipment available that makes being accurate easier and more consistant and if we as individuals choose to limit the use of that technology to provide more challenge then we should be a bit more proud of a successfull hunt than the guy with a compound or crossbow.However, pride inour accomplishments is not the same as elitism which is the subject of this thread. Being told by someoneusing a fully outfitted compound that a crossbow is not archery is no diferant than a compound archer being told by a modern recurve hunter withcarbon arrows that his bow is not a bow. That of course is followed by the primitive archer that sneers at all ofus. (by the way, I use a long bow with wood arrows I make myselfduring archery season). Be proud of how you hunt if you choose to take the hard way, you deserve to be proud, but seriously...it is all archery and we had all better focus on more important things than re-defining a weapon that was considered a bow overa thousand years ago...

Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude
 

in one sentence you say it doesn't matter, the next you say it absoltuely DOES matter, look how proud you are of the recurve kills.

which is it ?

100% agree - I do believe in do as I do, not just do as I say.

why eventually ? why not now ?



Wyvern Crossbow I agree with much that you said. I've been debating canned hunting lately, and it brings up many of the same points. Who am I to tella guy he can't kill a tiger in a 2 acre pen ? If he wants to hunt that tiger, let him, what impact does it have on me ? Big Tent theory, welcome that canned hunter, support his "sport", we're all in this together, right ?

But I don't believe that. At my very core, canned hunting is WRONG. I'll never support it. Is that an eliteist attitude on my part ? Sure it is, and I'm honored and proud to have it and hold every hunter in the US to the same standards.


Right now, archery season can handle compounds and crossbows and recurves and longbows. We see it in most states, and there have been no cutbacks in archery seasons or bag limits.

Because of that, I'm inclined to say allow it all because after all, there hasn't been any real factual, visible signs of negative aftershocks.

BUT .... for some reason I "feel" that we're losing what hunting is and replacing it with quick and easy and I'm certain that isn't good either.

So where does that leave me ?

RE: Elitist attitude
 

"Is that an eliteist attitude on my part ? Sure it is, and I'm honored and proud to have it and hold every hunter in the US to the same standards. "

Here is the core issue....who sets the "standard"??? In this thread alone I was told that though my crossbow is cool it is "not archery to me". So by that standard I will never be able to use my "bow" in archery season. The guy who pays to be placed in a pen with an animal he could never find in the wild on his own is not "hunting", he is "killing" but most of the TV shows we watch are just that...enclosed areas and guided hunts on bated hunt parks. How many vocal "traditioanlists" use a treestand or a range finder, or scent eliminators and modern camo and lures and modern equipment? Do we now hold them to a "standard" that a plaid shirt, wood arrows, and Howard Hill hat are the only equipment they are allowed to use, and get some good shoes since you will be stalking for your animal?? We are at a point that we either need to blanket "archery" as a multi level sport with various levels of dificulty but all resulting in a more challenging hunt than gun hunting, or we need to draw VERY sharp lines as to what exactly archery is and kick all of the compounds, crossbows, and modern equipment into the gun season (which is exactly what is done in many states with crossbows). I want to be there when the elitiest that sets the standards tells Joe Compound user that his equipment is not "archery" and he has to hunt with orange on or he may get shot...

I think that what standards you set for yourself sets the dificulty level of the sport for you. Unless there is a safety issue, legal issue, or there is a dramatic effect in the deer herds or the quality of hunting, archery is archery...ALL of it, and no one really has the right to impose their "standards" on someone else.

OH...and as far as "loosing what hunting is" (by your standards of traditional equipment) the HUGE rise in people going to traditional archery is a sign that this is not only not true, but just the opposite...people have spent many years doing it the easy way and now desire more challenge. THis alone will help bring the sport back to its roots.

Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I hunt with a selfbow I made myself. Rivercane arrows and obsidian heads with turkey feathers all made by me. I maid the bow, the string, the arrows, the heads, the quiver....I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

I love it. I love making the stuff as well as shooting it. In todays day and age we've become a society that is all about the quick and easy, the disposable. The premade, no work neccisarry. We do this with the intent of having more time to do what we want. Unfortunatly the cost of those things keeps our time busy trying to afford them. We don't make anything anymore. Or at least most people don't. It is all about the fastest or easiest thing. The newest gadget etc...

Nothing wrong with that I guess. But for me one day I realized I was waisting a ton of money on things I didn't need. Then I realized the history and traditions and skills our forefathers used from day to day are going away. If we don't learn these things and pass them on they will be gone. Like the way hunting is being attacked by anti's the traditions of the past are being attacked by the current way of life. The do it yourself guy is becoming the oddity instead of the norm. I find this unfortunate. I took up bowhunting because I love to be in the woods. Gun season was to short for me. Gun season was a tradtion in my family. Every year the guys went to a hunting camp and stayed up to a week. Unfortunatly things have changed and this doesn't happen anymore. (something I hope to change) It was something I greatly looked forward to but now is gone. My children may never know the antisipation of getting ready to go. The same is true with Trad for me. Recurves and longbows are technologicaly inferiour to the modern archery gear. They are slower and harder to master. The fact remains though that all archery equipment is inferior to most firearms.

I am thankfull people are interested in archery. Be it modern or traditional. I teach archery to kids. They come in not shooting anything. They first draw to the compounds (genesis bows) becuase of the modern look kids like. Before long I've usualy got them shooting a longbow or recurve. They like the chanllenge and see the advantages the simple designs offer.

For me I like that people shoot compounds and are interested in them. I don't like the throw away attitude that comes with it (not saying that people throw these away., just that they are somewhat disposable) The "I have to have the newest fastest..." every year or more.

I do own several compounds. My first bow (mid 70 Bear polar 2) I killed my first deer with it. and a bow I go to when I haven't had the time to practice with my trad gear, a PSE bow from probably 12 years ago. I can pick this bow up today after not shooting it for years and shoot 3 inch groups at 40 yards.

I prefer to have a trad bow in had if I am afield but I will not stay home if I cannot take one or do not feel comfortable with one. I hunt because I love it and don't care the equipment other than my preferences.

I'm no better than anyone for the equipment I choose. Sure its harder to be proficient with trad gear. Harder yet to make all your own gear and use it. Thats part of why I choose it. The other part is to keep the history of it alive. I hope I never talk down to anyone because of the equipment they use (or for any other reason either) We all start somewhere. I hope people try trad sometime. They often find they like it better.


Excuse my poor spelling and typing errors....

And forgive the long rambling post... I haven't had my coffee yet ...LOL :D

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I think the answer is complex. Sometimes its the G&F based on facts and data and impacts on the resources. Sometimes its special intrest groups that lobby for it. The Pope and Young club had bigtime influence a couple of decades ago.

Not only complex answers, but its ever changing. This year mechanicals might not be legal for elk in NM, next year they might be. I know this - its rare when something is finally allowed IN and then later removed. Once in, VERY hard to get out.


I lean towards this view more than any other. As long as seasons and bag limits aren't impacted, allow it all, crossbows, drawlocks, whatever.

That said ...... there WILL come a time to draw line, Wyvern Crossbowwho's going to draw them and where ? I'd like to have answers in my head BEFORE that time gets here, a view of it all and firm footing on what I believe and what I don't you know ?


Imagine, the "group" that took over what archery is being eliminated from archery season, that WOULD be something wouldn't it ?


If that is the direction we're going as a bowhunting community, why not legislate it ?

RE: Elitist attitude
 

"If that is the direction we're going as a bowhunting community, why not legislate it ?"

It is legislated...It is the definition between archery season and gun season. It "should" be fairly simple: if it goes "boom" it is a gun, if it goes "twang/thwap" and causes an animal to bleed to death it is archery. Does this broad definition cause overlaps?? sure! Some guy with a flintlock and a miniball is hunting during the same season as a modern rifle. The stick bow guy is hunting with someone wiht a Stryker crossbow. In the process of setting asside seperate season for every form of hunting we have done nothing but place wedges between ALL forms of hunting.

The main complaint I hear from anyone trying to get a special season is that they feel that any form of hunting other than their own personal choice is unfair and they should be granted special treatment. Hate to say it, but no one has the right to be treated THAT special. You can easily hunt with a stick bow and flint while some guy in the next county uses his modern compound or crossbow. If all you are trying to achieve is a patch of woods all to yourself to hunt in(which is EXACTLY what special seasons are for)then you either need to buy/lease yourself some private property or drive a few hours so you are not in a populated area. At that point you can run naked thru the woods and howl at the moon all you wantwhile you hunt "my way"provided you stay within the law.

I really do feel that pride in your choice to do things the hard way is great. Forcing your "definition" of "what is archery" and " what is hunting" on someone else that is using ethical and legal methods of harvesting animals and is not REALLY affecting your ability to enjoy the sport is selfish and ignorant.

Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Hey if your making all your own stuff, including bow, arrow, string, arrow head, shooting glove ..no rangefinders...yadda yadda yadda. You should be proud! Thats one hell of a committment and a great accomplishment to take an animal with something crafted entirely from your hands!

If you buying any components..your just another one of "us".. I give you the same respect I give anyone else shooting (any)bow accurately.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

notice too ........ Hunting.net splits Bowhunting from Traditional Archery and even a seperate crossbows forum.

even Hunting.net splits us

RE: Elitist attitude
 

This is exactly what all of these elitist threads boil down too. Someone is upset that someone else that does not hunt just like them is polluting their hunting season. And the answer is just as Wyvern Crossbow put it: Instead of depriving other hunters opportunities on public land just buy your own land and set your own rules. Why the need to deprive other hunters on public land?

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Hey, they also split big game hunting and deer hunting and turkey hunting and predator hunting, etc.and that is all hunting right? It is just a different field of interest but they are not trying to deprive another hunter of anything.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

brucelanthier splitting species forums is different than splitting equipment forums, isn't it ? I mean, we're all big tent guys here right ? All for one and one for all ? Well ...... except the truth is we're NOT all for one and one for all, we've already drawn lines that few want to discuss, and those lines are shaky at best based on what they're based on.

hmmmmm

would you go for a one season for everyone ? no splitting of weapons, we all get 3 or 4 weeks and shoot what you want to in it ? or maybe choose your weapon tags ? you hunt with archery means you don't get rifle tags, you hunt with rifle and you don't get to hunt with bows, that kind of deal ?

isnt the seasons split for a reason ? what ARE those reasons ? Impacts on game resources is a big resaon they're split, maximizing hunting opportunities without putting too much pressure on the resources. Right ?

RE: Elitist attitude
 

"would you go for a one season for everyone ? no splitting of weapons, we all get 3 or 4 weeks and shoot what you want to in it ? or maybe choose your weapon tags ? you hunt with archery means you don't get rifle tags, you hunt with rifle and you don't get to hunt with bows, that kind of deal ? "

Actually, Yes...that would make things a whole lot easier. "Archery season": I go out one day with my long bow, another with my modern crossbow, another with a compound, and another with my medieval bow. I find it annoying that I have to keep one eye on my calender and HOPE for good hunting weather during that week. In our area with the deer population the "archery or gun" option would not be there, and I do like to seperate "archery" from gun as gun hunters tend to be more intrusive than bow hunters, but the "special seasons" is idiotic.

"isnt the seasons split for a reason ? what ARE those reasons ? Impacts on game resources is a big resaon they're split, maximizing hunting opportunities without putting too much pressure on the resources. Right ?"

If you are saying the archery and gun are split, yes, that is the reason. Spliting trad from compound or crossbow, or muzzeloader from gun is nothing more thanlegislators bending to special interst group pressure. I am sure in some states this may not work, but most everywhere would do just fine wiht an archery season, and a gun season. Back to the "twang/thwap" or "Boom" theory.

So...short of the individual opinion that crossbows or compounds are "not archery" or "not hunting", what REAL impact has allowing these forms of archery done to ruin your hunting experiance or decimate deer herds??? The trad guys all cried that the deer herds would be decimated by the introduction of compounds....this did not happen. Now all the compound users are crying that the deer herds would be decimated by the introduction of crossbows....this has not happend...and WILL not happen either. Now this does not mean that at some point there will not be a bow that can ethicaly kill at 150yrds, but I seriously doubt that many "archers" would use it. I sell very few of the full size Strykers because they are "too much" in the opinions of my customers. Taking long shots is not only unethical, but not much of a challenge and that is the main reason we got into this sport. This "MY SEASON" attitude is very entertaining....Kinda like watching Supernanny and seeing the kids thow a tantrum....

Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Sorry my lap top crashed had to borrow someone elses[:@][:@]and this on is OLD and slow....

RE: Elitist attitude
 

How about one long season but you can only take X number of animals with each particular weapon? Right now, in MD, we can legally shoot 36 deer, 12 archery, 12 muzzleloader, 12 firearms and we can shoot unlimited deer in 4 countys. We could haveone 5 month hunting season (the length of our archery season) but you can only take X amount of deer with each weapon. Same amount of deer would be killed each year, right? So I guess you could say I would go for one season for everyone. That wouldn't bother me one bit.

You seem to want to have exclusionary solutions while I would be looking for more inclusive solutions. But, like I said, all of these elitist threads boil down to that "Someone is upset that someone else that does not hunt just like them is polluting their hunting season."

If you don't want other hunters bothering you in your season buy your own land and hunt it like you want. Don't try and deprive other hunters of public hunting.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Personal pride and the belittlement of others. Nothing more. "Im a better hunter than you, so if you dont do it my way, you should not be allowed in the woods with me, the real hunter. Actually, you should not be allowed to hunt period".

Is that not what this diatribe is about. BD quit being P.C. and just come out and say you are better than everyone else that doesnt use trad bows. I can remember when you first started trad gear. Where was your cockiness before you made the life changeing switch. Oh yea, it was the gun hunters that were not worthy.:eek:

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Divide and defeat. People like you do the divideing so the antis can defeat us. Keep up the good work B.D.. We will ruin hunting from within.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

BD there is a point about compound,it dosnt fall under definition of bow but it does fall under the def of Archer witch is one who shoots with bow and arrow, that isif you see compound bow/crossbow compound as haveing limbs that bend and use a string to propel a arrow.....
Like I said earlier ifthe Elitewant to hunt with only a longbow or recuve great but ifthe elitedont want to reconize(spl)a bow as being a weapon that has LIMBS and STRING use to propel a arrow then they should buy thier own chunk of land and live in thier own Eliteworld and leave the Archers alone...
Once again this is my opinion...

RE: Elitist attitude
 

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Those aren't traditional fishing poles. I don't think you should be allowed to fish unless you use traditional cane fishing poles.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

And the boat isnt trad ether;)...it should be made of Berchwood with paddels made out of oak or something of that nature....

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I stand by my statement--from a legal hunting perspective, according to the regs in most states, crossbows are not archery equipment. You don't have to get a special permit to use archery equipment during the archery season--if a crossbow was standard archery equipment, no permit would be required. Not quite a gun, but certainly not a bow.

My concern is we are going to loose the archery onlyseason, or have it lumped in with everything else. We've already lost two weeks that used to be archery season, now it's "primitive weapons". That term is a real joke in MS--in most areas you can use certain centerfire rifles (.44, .45-70, .444, etc.) with scopes during "primitive weapons" season. Some gov't land required the used of actualy muzzleloaders, but I think scopes are allowed there also.

Seems we have fewer hunters and more deer, but hunting land is getting a lot harder to find and public land getsmore and more crowded.


Chad

RE: Elitist attitude
 

the above is a very solid view, it really is, but what its missing is what hunting is all about anyway. the above fixes only on kill stats, G&F rules and regs.

does it matter ? I think more and more it does, but ....



People who make their own archery equipment, whittling out self bows and can arrows, knapping their own heads, they ARE BETTER THAN ME AND MY3 PIECETD LAMINATED RECURVE AND CARBONS in that they are choosing a much more difficult route. Much admiration, kudo's and recognition needs to be given to them.

Do you agree ?

My cockiness before trad was like most compounders - I hated crossbows and everything they stood for because that was what I was suppose to believe, P&Y clube said so [:o]


Chad, if MS allowed crossbows tommorrow in general archery season, to everyone, would you then accept them as archery equipment ?

RE: Elitist attitude
 

I do acknowledge your consistence with that response. But to say someone is better? No. More persistent ? Yes.

No one knows if they (non trad shooter that is), is better. They have yet to be tested and just might never feel the need to. So to be uppidy is kind of childish.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Crossbow as definend..a weapon for discharging quarrels and stones that consists chiefly of a short BOW mounted crosswise near the end of a wooden stick....

Crossbowman....a soldier or a HUNTER whose weapon is a crossbow..

Its a BOW face it........

There is a group of Elitest that cant except the fact that if a weapon has limbs and a string it cant be a bow,just like the Elitestthat think they can change our constitution.or amendments....

We all need to be together if we want our hunting privleges to be kept and not throwen away.

RE: Elitist attitude
 

No, I wouldn't. However, my opinion wasn't the point in question. As it stands, in most states, a crossbow is not archery equipment. That was the perspective I spoke from. It's a "primitive" weapon, or at least has primitive roots--no more, no less.


Something else I'll note--some medival crossbows hurled rocks instead of bolts--are those still bows? Why or why not?

Chad

RE: Elitist attitude
 

"from a legal hunting perspective, according to the regs in most states, crossbows are not archery equipment"

That is a wholly incorrect statement since most states allow a crossbow to be used during archery season but most of them require a specialpermit. That means that the states DO allow that it is a piece of archery equipment, but the incorrect information and politics of certain groups (P&Y being one of them) has made it so that using it is a series of hoop to jump thru. If it was not archery, then with a permit, handicapped people could use a gun, couldnt they?? This is a pretty standard fall back in the "its not a bow" argument and it carries no weight.

"Something else I'll note--some medival crossbows hurled rocks instead of bolts--are those still bows? Why or why not? "

Actually...they were considerd a "sling shot" since the projectile was "shot" and did not "arch" like an arrow or bolt while in flight. To answer your questions, yes, it is a crossbow, but no, it is not ARCHery.... This is as close to that assanine term "crossgun" as you are gonna get...


Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude
 

Like I already pointed out, if a crossbow was simply archery equipment then there would be no need for a special permit to use one during the archery only season. Archery season--archery equipment--no special permit required.

I don't consider it to be a gun either--it's in-between IMO.

I'm not leading a protest against them, and I don't care if someone chooses to use one in the appropriate season (primitive weapons). In my opinion (take it for what it's worth), a crossbow is not archery equipment.

Not that it matters, but a rock, ball bearing, etc. when shot from a slingshot arches very much like an arrow or bolt. My point there was simple--does the projectile make it a bow, or not? It's a bow when firing a bolt, but a slingshot when firing a rock? If the ammunition defines the weapon, then the 10/.22 converted to fire bolts is also a "bow"? And the slingshot that fires bowfishing arrows, is it a bow too?

I don't recall the folks that fought and lobbied for separate archery seasons to have included crossbows in that battle.

If you like them, by all means use them--in the appropriate season. It's your choice, just like it's mine to use a bow rather than a muzzleloader during primitive weapon's season. To me it's along the same lines as developing a black powder load for a .270 or .30-'06 then expecting to be able to use that during muzzleloader season. Hey, It's not exactly a muzzleloader, but I'm using the same type of powder and they both fire bullets--so they are one and the same, right?


Chad