What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I'm an ethical hunter. I don't doubt myself about this, ever.

Here's my question......What's the fastest you've ever heard of anyone picking up a traditional bow.....then ETHICALLY hunting with it?

I think I can do it, this year......and I've only shot 100 or so arrows through it, so far. I "think".....if I shoot it every ohter day (or more often).....I can gain the confidence and instill the proper technique this season, sometime.

Is this unheard of? Too lofty a goal?

Thanks.....

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Proof is in the pudding. I know for me, it took over a year. I set a personal goal of hitting hitting the vitals of a 3d deer5 out of6 arrows randomly shot from 5 yards to 20 yards in a wooded enviroment.

I set my yardage limit to 18 yards or so. I can't say exactly what it is, but know mentally what it looks like. Its never good to take downyardage when practicing with trad equipment in my opinion. Make it as random as possible.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Only you can answer when you are ready.

If you feel ready now, I'd say go for it.

What you should look at is only your first shot of your practice session (whatever time frequency that may be, and don't stray from that during the season) to let you know when.Don't use a combination or grouping for your decision.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I hear ya Bob.

It's not THAT important. I know I'll hunt with it one day. I'll also probably know when it's the right time.....which is NOT.....definitely not NOW...lol. I just think I'm doing OK.....and I'm a fast learner.

Look at it this way, too. I posted photos of my first shooting session.....and within an hour had my form critiqued via the forum. Within another 1/2 day....I'd posted 2 more sets of photos and gotten feedback on all of them. How awesome is that??;)

I didn't set into stone any BAD habits. I just feel that if I practice and keep progressing.....I can hunt with it before my season goes out in mid Dec. I'll know if that time comes, I think.

Thanks, guys.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I made myself practice with mine for a full year before attempting to hunt with it. I've heard of some folks taking to it much sooner, but that wasn't for me.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Everyone, even rank beginners, have a distance at which they are pretty darn certain they can hit what they're shooting at within a couple of inches. Even if it's only 5 yards, for example, they can hunt ethically. Might not be bringing home much venison due to being limited to nothing longer than 5 yard shots, but that's another side of the story.;)

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I agree with arthur, I guess the better question for yourself, are you willing to hunt with your limitations you have set for yourself? I know last year, I still wasn't as confident, and worried constantly about a big buck walking 30 yards out. It never happened. But I knew that was over my limits.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

bigcountry.....I hunt with a bow....so your 30 ydsreferenceis no different to 50 with a compound.

I know my limitations with the compound bow, too. I'd need to find them with the longbow, yet. Good point.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

No offense, but sounds like you know the answer to your question then.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Jeff it took me over a full year to feel comfortable enough to hunt with my recurve. All I can say is practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more. And don't be afraid to limit yourself to only short shots. I had a self imposed limit of 15yd shots when I huntined with it at first and now that has grown to 20yds, but nothing over that at all.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

If you guys have seen my posts in the bowhunting forum....you'll know I have a target-rich environment where I live. I see a lot of deer.

If I can accomplish what I need to with thinnign does early (Ok...and getting me a buck).....lol....then I might take the longbow out in the late season to take a doe.

We'll se ehow the practicing goes and the progression.

Thanks, guys.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I have found my on deer range is about half of my effective range on targets.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

That makes a lot of sense. GMMAT, isn't that ironic?;)

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

ironic?

I don't see it that way.

Let me put it in terms I should have to start with.

What do you really learn by shooting "one shot practice"? You either:

a) Learn tht the countless shots youve perfected over repetition have paid off...and that first shot is a no-brainer.....

or

b) You learn that you need MORE REPETITION! (if your "one shot" is a poor one)

One Shot practice (in my book) just doesn't make sense. Oh it sounds good.....but what are you gaining? I KNOW EVERY SHOT is important beofre I pick up my weapon.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Not sure if I implied being in favor ofa one shot practice session. If I did, I sure didn't mean to.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I sure didn't see where that was implied. You seem to got a idea on what you want to do and how you want to do it. So I say go for it.

Not speaking for anyone, but I think what was meant was, when making a personal goals, its wise to note if one is ready or not by the first arrow of your practice.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

bigcountry....

Early in made a post the other day about how he thought it was a good idea to shoot one arrow.......go do something....and then come back later and shoot another......and he called it "One shot practice".

I had a dissenting view....and he took Bob's words (albeit Bob didn't mean it that way)as an attempt to bolster his argument.

That's why I said what I did. IMO....the first arrow isn't any more important than any other one.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Shooting groups is the exact same thing as doing one-shot practice, you just keep repeating that one shot over and over again. ;)

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

:D;)

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

the only kind of practice I do now is stumping, when I first started I shot into my deer target grouped my arrows in the vitals out to 20yrds with my longbow. It wasn't 3" group or nothing I am not an olympic target shooter and not near that good but as a hunter knowing I can put my arrows in the vitals of a deer is what I need to know. Now when I practice I stump shoot which puts me more into hunting situations and I guess you could call it one shot practice because thats what it is and thats what hunting is. You only get one arrow in a hunting situation. Shooting at a deer target from your deck or backyard is going to be a completely different animal than going inot the woods and shooting through branches and being tuck down ina down fall. Sorry if I got off topic but when it comes to being ready to hunt don't base it on how many arrows you can put into your deer target standing in your back yard or off your deck. Good luck.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Ya know, Heckler, these days I'm just about the same way. I'd rather get my practice by going out and stump shooting instead of pumping arrow after arrow into a target. Or at least trying to. I've got a roaring case of target panic that only hits me when I'm shooting at targets.

Shooting at a leaf blowing across the grass or maybe a fungus on a rotting log, I can shoot like a world champion. Put me in front of a target though and I turn into a complete wreck in short order.

Stumping is a whole lot more fun anyway. :)

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

In 1972 it took me two months to go hunting and a nother two months totake mt frist doe with a bow.. I was9 at the time. My dadsaid tome i would never kill anything with a bow. Thats all it took....I never looked back...

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

What heads for stump shooting?

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

So people on here are advocating stump shooting without practicing a good release, or learning some instintive shooting skills by shooting an arrow and adjusting and making that mental note it takes to make an instintive shot? Guys, you can't just learn to drive by putting a car in drive and heading out on the interstate. You might make it home and learn to navaigate eventually, but you have to learn the basics.

I bet you everybody on here learned to shoot by group shooting at first. And if they say they didn't, they are telling a fib.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

No I didn't. I learned basically by what we nowadays call stump shooting (just out playing Indians to a small boy though, while under grampa's watchful eye), and by killing small varmints and stuff around the barn, chicken coop and garden. Every time I missed, I learned to do it better. I'd killed truckloads of game by the time I ever shot my first arrow at a genuine target in an archery class in college.

The style I used up until that college class was like the Comanches and Apaches shot, and radically different from white man archery. I didn't have an anchor. Instead, I drew back almost to the point of my chin and eyeballed down the arrow shaft to aim. (Whoever said Indians only shot instinctive doesn't know diddly.) I held the bow nearly horizontal. My arrows had a raised knob for a nock which I pinched between my thumb and middle knuckle on my forefinger to draw the bow. Didn't even use a nockset.

And that's no fib.

I got into target archery after that, so I've shot plenty of groups. I've got plenty of very good reasons to prefer stump shooting over group shooting now. After 52 years of shooting bows and arrows, all different kinds of bows and with very different shooting styles, I'm not too worried about my shooting form. I'm more into enjoyment at this point of my archery career. :D

HAVING FUN shooting arrows is a good thing. However you find that fun is good because you will be shooting arrows. You learn to improve by shooting arrows and benefitting from your mistakes. Some things can best be learned from shooting groups. But learning how to shoot in the woods can only be done by shooting in the woods.

Point is, you need BOTH types of practice to be well rounded.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Well, everyone on here played around when kids like that. I am talking serious archery. I knowI had plenty of those kids bow's too, shootin birds and whatever moved. But thats kids play. Thats what kids do. I learned to hone that stuff later. My whole child hood playing around with bows, didn't add up to diddly on what i learned with serious archery later.

To each his own.

I am just curious Arthur, not knocking you,as I hear this constantly in this world. Why do people bring up indians all the time. One could argue, they were far from top archers in history. Lots of other cultures killed lot more than they did on 2 legsand four.

I was in a bow shop yesterday and a guy told me he knew what he was talkin about cause an indian friend told him so. I kinda looked at him like "oh yea".

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

bigcountry, I am glad you take your archery so seriously. Me personally I am past that point and to me its fun. Its a hobby a passion, it keeps me grounded and my mind off thestresses of life. Bills and debts are serious. As far as most people starting shooting groups I agree with most folks do, I did until I learned good form then it just didn't seem to matter. I don't compete, I hunt one shot just like STUMP SHOOTING, heck I feel that 3d shoots are better hunting practice than shooting groups. GMMATs question isdo we think its possible for someone to hunt after only 100 arrows which is a question only he can answer. But looking at his form photos and his group photos doesn't say anything other than he is shooting at his target very well for a trad beginner. But like I said in my other post shooting groups at a target in your backyard in your shorts and sandels doesn't give me an ounce of confidence when it comes to hunting. everytime I go and shooting gophers/rabbits or stumping I find/putmyself in different shooting positions that I may encounter in the field. 99.9% of the time you will only get one shot at your game and I guess I am just not lucky enough to have a gimmie shot like I would in my back yard. What makes you think that just because I stump shoot(practice hunting shots) I don'tuse good form for me I don't feel the need to practice my form everytime I shoot by that I mean after learning good form and shooting lots its burned into me and natural and if I do have a bad release my bow tells me so to say. Remeber when I talk about this as I said in my other post I am speaking as a hunter not a target shooter, I have no desire to be a target shooter or I would do nothing but shoot groups in a controlled situation.

PS bigcountry could you please define serious archer for me please?

Bigcountry, please don't take any offence I don't know you or dicredit you I am sure you are a knowledgeable person and obviously been here a long time, I am just giving you my opinions and defending your reply to mine.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I have a sneakin suspicion you know better than that. Goodness, I hope you can figure it out at least.

Are you really serious? You really can't understand? One, is little bobby running around the table with a feather in his hat, calling himself tonto, with a fiberglass bow and some wood arrows, firing off at everything. Little bobby does not have a care in the world. He doesn't know if he is doing it right, or wrong. Probably at that point causing more bad habits he will have to unlearn later. But its fun, and we all did it.

The other is where you really want to make sure you don't wound a deer or boar. You want to improve, and start really taking patience in your shots. Really feeling your release, knowing it feels good. You study it, you think about it, you love it. You strive to do well.

One might take the time to haybale shoot, or to rove around his yard taking random shots.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I see where you are coming from and I agree with you to a point, but I feel that the first year I shot all I did was work and perfect my form to the best of my ability. now for me it should be natural I shouldn't have to think about it, I don't want to think about it. When I am hunting the last thing I want to do is wound an animal and if I take it to serious and think about it to much that is exactly what will happen. If I am shooting and I tell myself I am going to miss or feel a shot is to tricky and I psych myself out I am going to miss, that what I mean by not taking it to seriously and just have fun with it. I guess I see trad achery as a more natural thing and if I take it to serious I lose focus and not hit my entended target.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I think we are saying the same thing heckler. One has to start out somewhere. You have figure out your form. Go out on a few 3d shoots. I agree best thing one can do for deer hunting. But at the same time, gauge your process. Its all about confidense.

When I started traditional, I heard over and over people not wanting someone to shoot groups. Not work out their method for aiming or deciding to let go of that string. Then I come to find out a guy who was a big rover I knew, actually started out just like anyone in his yard shootin groups.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Serious archery, bigcountry?

Maybe I never learned serious rifle or pistol shooting, since I never shot groups with those either. I learned to shoot firearms by going plinking with my dad and went straight into shooting rabbits and squirrels with my little single shot .22 Winchester. Then moved on up to a sporterized .303 Enfield for deer.

I guarantee you, you don't want me shooting a rifle at you within 200 yards, even though I never shoot for groups with a rifle. If I can set up a row of beer cans and make 'em jump by busting the label in the exact letter I'm aiming at, I'm sighted in good enough for busting a deer.

Same with archery. I learned by 'plinking' and hunting varmints and small game. Although I have since been a competitive archer and have shot many, many groups, that is the way I originally learned.

Yes, that's how kids play. Kids play grows up as the kid grows up. The skills grow and mature as the kid grows and matures. Do you run faster now than you did when you were 3? Are you stronger? Do you have a better vocabulary? It's the same deal with archery.

How serious does archery have to be to meet your standard anyway? There were no huntable herds of deer close to where I grew up, so I became a small game hunter. How many rabbits does it take to equal one deer? How many squirrels must one kill before he can say he's a 'serious' archer? How many feral hogs does it take? Coyotes? Bobcats? Raccoons? Possums? I killed a number of each of those using that old "kids play" shooting style before learning 'serious' archery form. You trying to tell me all that came before my enlightenment wasn't 'real' bowhunting?

I speak for no one but myself, but I mention the Indians because I am mixed race, part white and part Indian (Cherokee, Chickasaw and Blackfoot). Where I was born there were many Comanches and Apaches living off the reservation and in my neighborhood. That is my heritage and the culture I was born into. I was originally taught archery according to that culture.

I am proud of my heritage and don't feel particularly obligated to avoid talking about it. I brought it up because you question that anyone could be a proficient archer without doing things your way. My intent was to illustrate there is more than one way to skin a cat... or to learn to shoot a bow.

You do realize the Japanese have a completely different shooting method than the English yeoman? And the Mongols have a different method than either. Same for the Native Americans, even variations between different tribes and different regions. Not to mention the ancient Egyptians, Persians and Turks. All those cultures are great archery cultures, simply in different styles with vastly different types of bows.

Of course, the English couldn't fathom any other race being nearly as good at archery as themselves, and since they did most of the writings along those lines.... Unfortunate that so many later authors use those racially motivated writings as source material. Keep that in mind as you read those derogatory stories about Indians' shooting skills.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Have a good one arthur. :D

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I think we all have different views and opinions in the path that lead to the same goal. its to bad that sometimes its hard to read emotion and someones intent in writing and it gets taken the wrong way. I wish that we all could get together and enjoy a nice day on the range then maybe a BBQ and beer. GMMAT as far as your question you are the only one that can determine if you are confident and comfortable to ethically and cleanly hunt with your new longbow. As far as stumping heads I use judos because they bury themselves under the grass and hide.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Wow, this one got pretty good. :)

Bigcountry, this is an interesting suggestion. Would you describe this as group shooting? Personally, I wouldn't, and I wouldn't call it a single arrow practice session.

When I'm out at the 3-d course, I usually only shoot one arrow per target (two at most), let my son shoot,and take a walk to the next target.

I also wouldn't call it a single arrow practice session since I'm probably shooting around 30 arrows or so.

I'd have to say this is more similar to roving or stump shooting.

If I'm in the basement shooting, I'll usually shoot about 50 arrows or so. But this is a form session. I am paying attention to some certain aspect of form, things like, keeping my release hand in close (not plucking), getting my elbow around far enough, squaring my face to the target (yes, I still get sloppy), keeping a rigid bow arm, keeping even pressure on the grip.I'll shoot maybe ten arrows beforepulling them.But the big difference is that I am not shootng for accuracy.My targetdoes not have an aimingspot on it, and I keep it in a dark corner so I can't see where the arrow impacts (it destracts me). I'm using the target to stop my arrows.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Nope, you can't call 3D group shooting. At least the ranges I go to, rules is one shot, one target. Every once in a while, I will sneak in another arrow.

Someone said its a balance. I agree.

If a person practiced different 3D ranges on a weekly basis, I bet his skills would improve very quickly. I know mine did.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Luckily at the club I belong to all shoots are fun shoots except for one money shoot and one Champions shoots. We have our big traditional shoot coming up this weekend so the Rapters and everything else are set up. Had a ball there last night. We have one stake set up on a log that is about three feet up (Chad would love it). The only way to really take the shot (which is between a split limb) is to get your foot up and stand on one leg. :D

Yup, besides other forms of practice, that's what we do right though the winter. It's a pain finding lost arrows in the snow though. [:@]

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I havent' been faithfully doing 3D this summer.

Sounds like you got a nice club.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

I shot my first 3D traditional shot, last night. Honest injun....I hit the 12 ring on a 12 yd Wolf....though I was shooting for mid-torso...lol.

I have access to a 3D range and I shoot there at least 3X a week. Problem is.....it's indoors...and my arrows would take a beating on misses (which I don't do with the compound).

4 shots, last night.....one miss...lol. I may move a bunch of 'em up close and shoot some, Saturday.

RE: What's the fastest you've heard of???
 

Id say that when you can Hit within 3 inches of where your aiming at on your very first shot when you first pick up your bow for a practice session at a distance of 15-20 (first shot consistency is very important in my eyes because chances are you only get one shot at a deer and that one shot is your first shot)yards your readyto hunt anything.

what im saying is even if you havent shot for 4 or 5 days or a week or two even...i think a guy should be able to pickup his bow and lay an arrow in there on his very first shot...if you can do that you have a good base for being able to hunt with your bow effectively...butthen hunting presents a whole otherset of problems.

the best way to get good at hunting with your bow is to go out and hunt with it...practice practice practice will only help so much for a hunting situation...but it doesgive a guy a strong base to beable to hunt and huntwith success.