PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

MEN,
In the most recent TBM Fred Asbell writes about the back muscles in reference to pulling a bow and he is flawed in a couple areas ! First of all lifting your elbow higher than your shoulder is always a dangerous indeavor when pulling or lifting anything it causes the shoulder to work against itself and can cause damage to your shoulder sokeep your elbow even or just "SLIGHTLY" ever so slightly above the shoulder if you need to get them back muscles working during the pull.
Next!The biceps are "NOT" the strongest muscle of the arm the Tricep is the strongest Muscle of the arm and is very important during the pulling process ,even the the tricep is a pushing muscle andbecause shooting a bow is dynamic and when you push you pull thus bringing into play the triceps, frontal delts, and pecs to a degree and when you pull you use the Traps,rear delts,biceps and the muscles between your shoulder blades all these muscles need attention when considering an exercise regiment to gain DRAWING power of any bow you want to shoot, Freds article was a great article and hit on some great points, I just wanted to add my two cents and maybe help anyone who read the article.
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

you mind posting up a link for the article. I think I would like to read it now.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Upright barbell rows?

Anyway, I do believe what you are sayingabout the elbow not being too high while drawing a bow iscorrect. Ferguson asks what position you'd ratherhave for a tug of war. But I have seen Byron shoot what I would think is a high elbow. Bob Wesley describes it as a low shoulder draw. Personally, I try to keep the tip of the arrow, nock, and draw elbow all lined up.

Kind of like this:

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Bobco,
Upright rows done for the medial head of the deltiod is done with a WIDE GRIP and I never take my elbows above shoulder heigth and wide grip up rights really limits how high you can take your elbowsand thus SAFER ! Close grip uprights are dangerous. And yes the youngster in the picture is looking great with that form his elbow should just be high enough to get the back working,that elbow is in a safe position for sure !
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

bb9,
How do I post up a link ?
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

ummmm

you could just type the URL and I can copy and paste

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Here he is last year, switched to south paw,but kept the form:D:

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Your boy has got great form,Bob--both ways!I tend to shoot with a slightly high elbow

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

[email protected], maybe you can try that Cause yer speaking french to me buddy, I read it from a TBM magazine.
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

you can't link to the articles--they kinda want you to buy the magazine instead of reading them on-line

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

just type it all out for us :D

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

I read the article and thought it was pretty good. I don't recall where he says to keep the elbow higher then the shoulder though.

When he refers to the bicep, although I don't recall him stating it outright, I think (pretty darn sure) he is refering to the draw arm bicep, not the bow arm bicep. I would think the tricep would come into play in the bow arm.

His illustrations were pretty good IMO.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

the way I type,next month's issue would already be mailed out:D

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Bobco,
Myabe you and I went to a different school system ? LOL, ! "DRAWING WITH THE BICEP" Is his second bold type title. And he goes right to the first inaccuracy The Bicep is the largest and strongest muscle of the ARM ! "WRONG!!"the largest muscle of the arm is the TRICEP regardless of the Armthat is holding the bow or pulling the bow. Fred states "LIFT YER ELBOW " well ? how high ? Ive spent the last 35 years in the gym and learned some real hard lessons, Iam not kicking Fred !!his article was great! but flawed in that the actual muscles and kinesology he statesto perform the BOW PULL Is inaccurate but close,:eek:
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

I think we did too. No argument there. ;)

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Does is it really matter which muscle in the arm Fred says is doing all the work? If you think about it - pretty much all muscles in the arm holding the bow are working to help hold it steady.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

MEN,
Yeah we went to different schools in our system ! You obviously went to one were you were taught that yer were better than the average JOE because of your social rank in the pecking order! LOL. Fred Asbell makes some serious mistakes in his article ! Fred should stick to shooting the bow and not what makes it work as far as "KINESOLOGY" because he doesn,t have a clue!!!!!!!!!! And Bobco Your arrogance shows ever so OFFENSIVE!
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

oh boy....hey, where's my popcorn!!!



Ok we're good

Now where's BobCo?

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Nahh, I won't get pulled into and play that game. I'm sure everyone can sort things out for themselves.

I started readingFred's articlewith a sort of negative bias since I read this topic first. But after reading the article and explanations, I thought it was pretty good. And I agree with Fred on a lot of his points and explanations in it (not that I always agree with him though).

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Bobco,
No game intended! I to stated his article was a great one with a lot of great points, I clearly added some pointsonly because of my nearly 40 years experience in the gymand as a personal trainer in the WEIGHT ROOM ! some of his points were inaccurate, and you had to come at me sideways with your rhetoric and usual sarcasim with that polite tone, which should'nt be a cloak to be RUDE ! I was only trying to help someone who might have read the article so they didn,t hurt themselves by misunderstanding the high elbow comments.
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Actually, I don't believe that I made any comment to the contrary of your point of not raising the draw arm elbow above the shoulder. If fact I posted a few pictures of my son that support that point. Here is another one (me).

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

BOB,
Absolutely great form ! You have taught yer son well.
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

yea, the tricept isprobablyabout 50% bigger(guess) muscle as the bi in natural form....some guys might work there Bi to be unnaturally big for looks(why i dont know)but the tri isalmost twice as strong naturally

everything should line up when drawing your bowand holding, (like bobco's son)that way youuse the musclesthe way they are intendedand your bones line up properly,(study drawings of human bones and muscles and its easy to see the waythings are intended to work) thats why most guys will do things a certain way naturally.....but their are a few that dont, ive seen guys with bad shoulders and some that dont have bad shoulders "yet" draw compoundswith a droppedelbow Held in tight to the body untill they get to the letoff then they rotate up....no way possible for them to even shoot trad because there shoulders are so torn up....ivedrawn bows back like this before to see how it felt and it is aukward to say the least...to me it seems likethe extra motionis unneccesary and harderon the joints....

ive been shooting trad for 2 years....iwould like to shoot heavier bows....i can draw and shoot 65 fairly comfortable but i can tell that the string is awfull hard on the fingers after a while even tho they arent sore the next day(bad hands run un the family) and id rather have use of them when im 60 years old than not(im 25 now)...i can already tell im gonna have problems with my fingers even tho i dont currently...the guitar is hard enuff on them, i dont need 70 plus pound bows terrin them up too....sowhen i shoot a bow i like tostay around 45-55lbs range.
fingers are very important part of being able to draw heavy wieghts...think how hard it would be to draw even 35# with sore hurting fingers. reguardless of how storng the rest of your body is.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Men,
The low shoulder draw is a VERY ! VERY! Bad thing!! It will destroy your shoulders and is an obviuos sign of being overbowed and not being properly trained on how a bow is to be drawn.
Tj

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

i second that opinion....and ill betits the reason for shoulder probsguyshave,theyve beendrawing bows like that for 20+ years and pulling other weights during everyday work/life the same way....but not i...you can tell its wrong just by watching someone else do it.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

TJ give the guy a break...

Even with all of your years of experience lifting weights, you made some inaccurate statements. You stated that lifting your elbow higher than your shoulder is always dangerous when pulling or lifting anything.

That is not true. In fact, the shoulder/military press is one of the greatest shoulder exercises out there and it can only be performed by lifting your elbows above the shoulders.

RE: PULLING BIG BOWS or Just getting stronger !
 

Talis727,
The military press is just that ! a PRESSING MOVEMENT And the elbows above the shoulder in a pressing movement isnecessary to complete the exercise properlyas to develope the frontaldelts and upper pectorial muscle, andI was refering to the elbow in corrolation to the pulling upright or straight back as it relates to pulling a bow!! so if your gonna add something to what Iam talking about please do your homework and add something intellectually pertinentas it pertains to the precise subject matterat hand.
Tj