Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I've been looking at some of the Hoyt recurves just for looking as I have no interest in actually buying one, but a buddy and I were discussing whether or not this takes the "traditional" out of the equation. I think it does, and he doesn't agree. I just can't consider a recurve with a Tec riser as traditional. The fun in it for me is having a true stick and string to shoot. But he made the point that unless I'm shooting cedar arrows with stone points and hand made turkey feathers that my setup isn't really traditional and I can't disagree with that. Just wondering how my trad family feels...

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Your both right. Cause its all up to the shooter. For me, I like longbows, and like solid wood one pieces at that. I like shooting cedar arrows. But still like plastic nocks. I didn't go this direction to go half way. I either go as primative as I can, (without a sinew string, and bone nocks), and on the other extreme go as modern as i can.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Depends on who you ask, and their personal definition--or if you are shooting a tournament, it depends on the rules the organizers set. For me, there is a distinction between traditional and primitive, but the two terms often get used as if they are the same thing.

Back before compounds, sights (manufactured and improvised) were common. Gap shooting was (and is) common--and that's just using the tip of your arrow as a sight pin.

Want to get right down to it, to be truely "primitive" you are going to have to use a rock, or your teeth, to hack (or chew) a bow out of a stave, choke a squirrel with your bare hands so you can use it's hide for a string and hopefullyhave enough left over to haft stone broadheads to your river cane shaft; then scratch around for some feathers to stick to those arrows with some pine pitch (and maybe a little sinew from the squirrell).

Personally, I don't care if someone goes to those extremes, or wants to cut an osage bow out of a stave with a bandsaw and finish it off with an electric sander, or prefers a bow with a machined aluminum riser cut out with a CNC machine. It will, however,bug me if one or the other wants to look down their nose at me due to my choice of equipment.

My preferance is a deflex/reflex (laminated) longbow with a Dynaflight '97 (one of the most modern fibers available) string, and Port Orford Cedar arrows (started using them to meet tournament regs, now I just like them). Since I'm the only first one in my immediate family to get involved with archery, the tradition starts with me.

Short answer, don't get hung up on what someone else considers traditional. Unless you shoot tournaments (where you will have to use equipment within the tournament guidelines), shoot what you like and enjoy--life's too short to argue about what is or isn't "traditional".[8D]

Chad

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

As stated, it depends on your definitionof traditional. How far back do you go to find/define it. I shoot a chek-mate falcon and shoot POCcedar arrows and to me it's more traditional than a compound but as far as the "Traditional archery" side of it I consider it pretty modern. Never the less I love shooting my recurve and other than trying a long bow someday when I can afford one I will never shoot anything but.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Chad hit it dead on here. There were literally dozens of metal riser bows before the compound. Metal and other non wood bows actually go back 1000's of years.

Simple - non wheels (or OniedaEagle style) and its "traditional".

Frankly don't do not see why its even an issue.

Steve

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Before wheel bows we were all archers. I don't know who came up with the traditional lable. But I am a archer. I shoot target bows, wood and glass bows and all wood bows.The one thing I wll notuse is wood arrows.

What gets me is the rules at the so called traditional shoots.(what a joke)

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

it doesn't matter what the bow is made of does it ? as long as the bow is drawn and shot instinctive - right ? Take a 1950 Bear Kodiak and it aint going to shoot too much different than, say, a 2007 Chekmate Hunter :D

you're confusing traditional bowhunting to PRIMITIVE bowhunting - and those guys are a whole different breed of people !

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I never saw it to being an issue. It just bugs poor stealthy to death for some reason. For years, its been very important for others to agree with his stance on traditional. When in reality, it only matters to the ones buying the bow.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

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Are modern recurves really traditional?

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RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Take a gander at these old bows. What most people think of as 'traditional' these days is a myth. It's an over-glorified, exceedingly idealized fanatasy. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not a historically accurate picture of how archery really was before compounds. How many of you guys thought split limbs on compounds was a new idea? ;)




By the way, the pics came from www.archeryhistory.com

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

You can call a puppy a kitten all you want to, but its not a kitten and never will be a kitten, its got no characteristics of what a kitten is .......... its a puppy and always will be, whether you call it a puppy or not.

bigcountry you don't think Fred Bear shot a traditional bow, that pretty much says it all, doesn't it ?

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I don't know buster, never talked to the man to ask him if he thought he shot a traditional bow.

See folks, bugs him to death. :D Wierdest thing.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I don't even know what "traditional" means? To me that would be shooting any bow, longbow or recurve without the aid of sights.... To me, that is traditional...... To Joe Blow it may be a fully blown out osage self bow with river cane arrows..... I really could care less what anyone shoots or what they call it.... Hunt for yourself, because I can promise you, nobody else cares...

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Tournaments have rules because it's a game, and the rules are usually established to try and level the playing field. Organizers know if you put a guy with a selfbow and rivercane arrows in the same class as the guy with an Olympic style recurve decked out with sights, stabilizer, etc. and carbon arrows, neither one is going to be happy. Obviously one has the advantage, and generally speaking both want to compete with their peers. Trap shoots don't allow just whatever guage shotgun and size shell you want to use, boxing doesn't put a heavyweight against a flyweight.

Sometimes some rules don't make sense to me, but if I don't like it I have a few options: shoot, but not compete; don't shoot there; do the work and organize my own tournament where I can set the rules; or just be thankful that someone has done the work and gone to the expense so I can go and shoot and have a good time.

I choose the last option--I've helped with a lot of tournaments, and that is WORK. Most don't do it for personal gain, and the folks that have the most responsibility generally work their butts off so everyone else can have a good time.

I've also learned through my participation there is no way one set of rules will make everyone happy. Like I said, some rules bug me, and I'm pretty easy going.

Without fail, if the tournament is of any size, there's going to be the following complaints and then some: shots are too long, shots are too close, shots are too open, shots are too brushy, course is too long, course is too short, too many different types/sizes/brands of targets, not enough different targets, not enough water stations, so-and-so is cheating by shooting a light bow and/or gap shooting and/or using a target bow and/or a bow with a machined aluminum riser, etc. etc. etc. They just have to do the best they can and try to please the majority. I know sometimes personal preferances get slipped in, but that's just the way it goes.

I compete, but I'm not serious about it. I'm happy to have a place where I can get together with other archers and have a good time.

Chad

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Chad - I think the reason behind the complaints falls to one thing - the goal of the shooter. What it is ? Is it to win ? If it is, he's going to complain about any and everything that doesn't match up well to his strengths.

Me ? I shoot to improve my hunting. If I could shoot broadheads at 3D shoots I think I would. When I 3D I'll take a second shot for fun, and don't care if anyone else does either. Score matters not, in fact I try to take killing shots, I don't care to try and get an X if I can shoot right behind the ribs on a quarter away shot, you know ?

I know what ya mean though

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I think we (society) as a whole are, for the most part, spoiled. Some kids sports don't have a winner or a looser anymore, and it seems some adults want it to be that way.

I get aggravated sometimes, and it's a paradox for me. On the one hand I'm glad more people are coming to tournaments, but on the other hand some of them really should stay home until they learn to shoot better, or at least accept the fact that they just aren't very good.

A few years ago I was talking to the range manager at a big shoot. He was telling me he'd just gotten a jackhammer cussin from a guy that had just finished the course. The guy had started with a dozen arrows, and had to borrow three more just to finish!

Now I'm no crack shot, and the course was challenging (several tight shots), but it wasn't that hard--I shot all 60 targets withough loosing or breaking one cedar arrow. I don't remember for sure, but I think I shot that course a few times (multi-round tournament--one of the rules I don't care for) and didn't break or loose any.

I shoot for several reasons--one is to improve my skills, but I also like to see where I stand with other shooters, and I enjoy the socializing. I try to hit the marked kills, rather than take what I think would be a kill shot on a live animal. If I can hit where I'm looking, I'm happy, and the best way to know if I can do that or not is shoot at the marked spots.

Up North they have some broadhead shoots, but haven't heard of any in the South. I'd love to try it sometime. Think they usually have paper targets with sand piles for back stops--but on the other hand, with some of the nuts I shoot with, that could be dangerous!

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

LOL I can relate to that ! Some guys can't shoot worth a lick

Hey - and I know this is a broken record ......... but PM or post a list of upcoming shoots. I'm committed to making some 3D shoots this year to improve my shooting. Is it Twin Oaks that you like and is somewhat close to me ?

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Stealth come on down and meet me at the Baltimore Trad. Classic. I am only an hour away.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I think it is,it is the same consept but it has changed a little.But it is still the same thing.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

bigcountry I'd love to but I live in Arkansas man !

I've owned Black Widows, Morrisons, Silvertips, Bears, Shakespeare, Pearson, Timberhawk, Checkmate, Adcock (ACS too), Gamemaster, DAS, Horne, Sley, Hummindbird, Acadian Woods, Archery Traditiions, Assenheimneer, Bears Paw, Bob Lee, Fedora, Great Plains, Stewart Multi-Cam, Pronghorn, Valley Traditional ......... geeeeeeeeeesh, I've owned a LOT of bows !

They all seemed to shoot pretty close in speed. I remember a one piece Sley I had that seemed FAST. A Silvertip that seemed FAST. The Acadian Woods seemed the quietest. The ACS the more finicky. The DAS was nice, I didn't like the grip.

Point is ........ I bet there wasn't 5% difference in any of them speed wise, and that includes the old Bear and Pearson and expecially a Shakespeare Necedah and Bear Tigercat I had - both were nice in my hands.

Compare a 1980 compound vs a 2007 compound
Compare a 1980 Bear TD with a 2007 TD recurve of your choice


Any difference in them ? :D

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Oh, I thought you lived in upstate NY. Its a fun time. I am going to try to find out if there is any self bow build alongs this years.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Shoot--my longbow is faster than my 80's compound, especially with a heavy arrow. Put the same heavy arrow on a new compound, the gap narrows a bunch.

The TN Classic is a great shoot, but not too close (Clarkesville, TN). The closest will be Lost Tribe--first shoot of the year is this Sat. Heck, you can get the schedule at www.losttribetn.org . If you want the dates for others, just holler, but that's going to be the closest (Collierville, not far from Memphis--directions on the site). All trad club, great shoot.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Nothing wrong with being competative and wanting to win, there are some that do take it overboard though. You have a few that'll cry foul over the slightest thing that doesn't meet their standards, but the majority shoot the course and let the chips fall where they may. When I shoot a 3D course, I shoot my best and I shoot to win. I shoot 3D because I love the competition and the competitiondrives me to improve my shooting. If I get beat, well, I get beat. It's just that much more incentive to work, toimprove. I work to improve my shooting well before Istep onto a 3D course.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

my view is ........ I'll shoot with anyone at anytime. Whatever they're using, if their arrows are going closer to the target, they're beating me, fair and square.

LBR - this weekend is too close, I have to plan things in advance. Shoot me a PM with some good up and coming ones please

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Dang, this thread blew up. A lot of good points made... thanks for the discussion :D

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

I think people over-think the subject.

If it's a recurve or longbow, it's considered a traditional type bow. And that's compared to compounds. Someone here mentioned that before compounds, we were all archers. Compounds coming onto the scene is what made people start calling bowhunting with recurves and longbows 'traditional' bowhunting.

I have 8 bows, including 2 recurves (one take-down with a machined riser and one glass-wood laminate), and 2 longbows (one one-piece wood bow and one glass-wood laminate), and when I'm hunting with any of them, I'm hunting traditionally. No sights, wheels/cams and no release aids. I don't see how the materials used in the bow can change the type of hunting you're doing with it.

RE: Are modern recurves really traditional?
 

Men,
personally If it does not have wheels I believethat ifthe string is attached from Limb tip to limb tip, Its traditional! One string ! no cables ! tip to tip ! yep its trad !
Tj