Got my longbow
 

Been shooting tonight in my garage at10 yards. Sometimes my shots feel great, sometimes aweful. I am having trouble working out my form. I have shot recurves but not a longbow at 2oclock position. It just feels so strange. I think it uses different muscles. Shot about 150 arrows. Pretty wore out. But once I got into a groove, I was shooting 2" groups at 10 yards a few times, but once I thought I had it figured out, I got 8" groups. I had trouble pinching the arrows. I tried some different technices not shooting split fingered, but that didn't feel right. I need some pointers I believe.

But I feel happy about my purchase. And if I get even a doe this year, I will be so happy.

RE: Got my longbow
 

Congrats!!! I can't really help you with pointers as I've only been at it for a year..... I'm having form issues also... The last two weeks have been the worst shooting I've done in 6 months or so..... Tonight things did get a little better though.... I've been spending ALOT of time working on my follow thru and making sure that bow arm stays still.....

RE: Got my longbow
 

Yep you need different muscles allright, just don't shoot so many it worns you out.
I shoot 12 arrows daily and that keeps me sharp.

RE: Got my longbow
 

I shoot a longbow and recurve the same way. You maybe thinking about it too much. I don't think about shooting a longbow or shooting a recurve, I just think about shooting a bow, period. Same muscles, same anchor, draw, release, and follow through.

Good luck,

Chad

RE: Got my longbow
 

Congrats. I would just say to have some fun with it for a while and just get used to it. Don't pressure yourself to shoot perfect groups. 150 arrows is a lot of shooting for a day. Bad habits can form from shooting too much and becoming exhausted.
See what feels comfortable for you. You don't have to shoot with that much cant. The proper cant will come with aligning the arrow below your eye pupil (important), your anchor will also come into play with this.

RE: Got my longbow
 

Thanks guys. going to get arrows made today. Its much faster than I thought. And penetrates the foam target pretty well. I have no doubt that it should penetrate a deer if hit in the boiler room.

RE: Got my longbow
 

One thing, I don't mind putting in the time.I understand that. I don't mind getting bad groups working on my form. But I just want to make sure I dont' get bad habits. I have what I consider great form with compound with release. I only release with back tension. I use the push pull method. But this is different. I am having trouble with my form using back tension. When I pull it back to my jaw anchor with the cant, I am just not using my back as much. And I believe thats bad form. Maybe not. I am going to a tradional classic shoot in May here in MD. And I heard a bunch of traditional guys hang out at macrotech this evening. Well see.

RE: Got my longbow
 

http://www.tradgang.com/videos/rod.wmv


This wouldn't be a bad one to learn from.......

RE: Got my longbow
 

Back tension definitely has a different feel with a traditional bow vs a high letoff compound. You've trained your body to use back tension in perfect uprighttarget form, like you have to use with a compound and all the doodads. When you make the cant and lean, you have changed several angular relationships with your musculoskeletal structure. It's not been trained in that way, so back tension feels odd.

Another thing that weirds you out is you're using much more back tension in the lastfew inches of draw than you do with a hight letoff compound. The feel of pulling back tension from a holding weight of 20 pounds or less is way different from what you feel at 50 pounds. With a low holding weight, there is a lotof muscle reserve to be called on for the release, so you feel back tension a lot better.

With a traditional bow, much more muscle is required to bring the string to anchor, leaving much less muscle in reserve to be used for back tension release. The back tension is still there, but it feels a lot more subtle.

I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. Darn pain pills still have me kinda fogged out... [&o]

Say your muscle strength is a max of 60 pounds. With the compound holding weight of 20, you are using 20 pounds of your strength to hold the string at anchor. That leaves you 40 to call on for the back tension release. With a 50 pound traditional bow, you use 50 pounds of strength to get the string to anchor, which leaves you only 10 pounds of reserve strength forback tension release. So, what I'm trying to say is, it's easier to feel 40 pounds than 10 pounds.

I hope I'm making sense. [&:]

Just concentrate on feeling the back tension when you release. Push your bow hand straight at the target while making sure the release comes as you're pushing the drawing elbow back into the wall.

RE: Got my longbow
 

It looks like he is dropping his bow arm alot. Is that pretty normal. Also I took a look at alot of those guys shooting and alot seems to be gripping the bow real tight. Is that normal for longbow/recurve? I was shooting tonight open handed like I do compound. After the shot the bow bounces some. I think my arrows I am using is too light.

What about the release. Some guys shoot with all three finger under the arrow and some with the index on top of the arrow. I have always shot recurves with the index on top. But I have a bad habit of pinching the arrow and it wanting to come off the shelf.

One thing I did learn off those videos is they do alot of mental prep before the shot and then snap shoot.

Makes total sense Arthur.I appreciate posts guys.

RE: Got my longbow
 

I haven't watched the vid, but I'm assuming it's the one Rob Jenkins put up? Rod is one heck of a shot--real nice guy too--but what works for Rod may not work for you.

IMO, do NOT drop your bow arm. A full and even exagerrated follow through works best for me--if I don't follow through, my accuracy suffers.

Some folks say you have to grip a longbow tight. I don't--if I try to choke it to death, I torque, and again--my shooting suffers. Heavier arrows will help the handshock, but some bows (longbow and recurve) will have shock even with super heavy arrows. Some tuning may eliminate part of that also.

Some shoot split, some shoot 3-under--just use what works best for you.

Rod does NOT snap shoot. He may not hold at anchor for a long time, but he firmly and positively comes to anchor. I've shot with him a few times, and probably will again this summer. I've never seen a consistently accurate archer that snap-shoots. Getting your head in the game does play a big part.

Chad

RE: Got my longbow
 

I agree with LBR about dropping the bow arm, but then again I'm not even in the same ball park as Rod Jenkins.... I've heard other top archers say that with a proper follow through the bow arm should fall to the left for a right handed shooter.... I've tried every concievable hold possible and mine ALWAYS falls straight forward and a tad to the right...

Then again, Rick Welch, who is probably one of the best shots in the world maintains almost the same anchor and hold as Rod, but his bow arm stays perfectly still...

I believe it's different strokes for different folks.

RE: Got my longbow
 

I also keep my bow arm up and exagerated after the shot as Chad has mentioned. I also get a grip on the bow (longbow). Maybe not a death grip, but a decent grip. More of a Howard Hill style. If I don't grip the bow decently, it throughs other things off. Remember that you have no stabilizer. But, I should mention, that as I draw, I keep a looser grip to feel the pivot point of the bow. I grip according to the pivot point. On my Adcock, it was ordered as a medium grip, but maybe because of my hand shape, it turns out to be a low grip. As such, I grip with more pressure with my bottom two fingers. I also will not exagerate the release hand and try to touch my shoulder. To tell you the truth, I shoot best when I have no idea where the release hand goes after the shot. THe more I think about the release the worse it gets basiacally.

RE: Got my longbow
 

I just bought a book about instintivie shooting by Asbell. Looks like alot of good info.

RE: Got my longbow
 

Some good info in Asbel's book, but then some of his info is bogus. I don't at all agree with the way he discounts the need for a good, solid anchor and consistent draw length. I also don't think he's correct in saying you need to take a chicken-chokin', white knuckle grip on a longbow handle. Other than those two glaring points, his book is okay. [&:]

RE: Got my longbow
 

Arthur, any other book you recommmend

RE: Got my longbow
 

Easy question to answer. ;)"Become the Arrow" by Byron Ferguson.

Also, "Hunting the Hard Way" by Howard Hill. I've heard good things about "Hittin' em Like Howard Hill" by Schulz, but I've never read it myself. Hill, Schulz and Ferguson are all pretty much the same style. Since I've read Hill and Ferguson, I haven't felt too compelled to buy Schulz's book. Ought to tho, I guess...[&:]

Don't try to exactly copy any one style. Try the different things each book recommends. Some of the stuff simply will not work for you. Forget those things. Find out what does work for you and incorporateTHOSE things into developing your own style. I do a bit of Asbell at short distances, a bunch of Fergusonon longer shots,and some stuff that I've just figured out for myself over the years.

RE: Got my longbow
 

One of the big benefits, to me anyway, of an exagerrated follow-through is you can get an idea of what you are doing--right or wrong. If your bow arm drops and you are consistentlyhitting low and left (right handed shooter), you know you are dropping it too soon. If your release hand is 6" in front of your face, or well away from your face, you knowyou aren't anchoring properly.

Just my opinion (take it for what it's worth), but I have no idea how Fred Asbell became accepted as an "expert". I tried to read the books (just couldn't get through either one), and I have the video. Like Art said, there is some good info., but some that's just so far out there it's funny, and he contradicts himself. For instance, in one part of the video he says you should anchor a certain way to get the arrow close to your eye, but in another part says you shouldn't shoot 3-under because it gets the arrow too close to your eye. He says something like "you cannot shoot accurately using 3-under"--guess he's never seen Rod Jenkins or Ricky Welch shoot. He uses a super-light drawing bow to exaggerate why you shouldn't shoot 3-under (I don't shoot 3-under, but I know a lot of guys that do, and are excellent shots).He puts lots of extra pressure on the lower limb, making it bend much more, which is very misleading.

Nothing personal against the guy--don't know him and never met him--I just don't agree with a lot of what he says.

Art covers the rest very well.

Chad

RE: Got my longbow
 

Darn sounds like I wasted 18 dollars. Oh well. Thanks guys for the comments.

RE: Got my longbow
 

Nah, you didn't waste your money. The more you know about different styles, the easier it is for you to develop your own.

When I was a kid, I lived around and shot with Apaches and Comanches. I learned to shoot using the pinch draw/floating anchorlike they did,and didn't learn to shoot like a white man till I was in college.;)I've played around with a whole bunch of different shooting methods since though, and I think Ferguson's explanation of Hill's gap shootingmethod will get you to shooting better, sooner.

If you pay attention to what he says, eventually you begin paying less and less attention to the gap until, in effect, you become an instinctive shooter. But you still have the gap system to fall back on when you switch to a different bow or try different arrows.

RE: Got my longbow
 

I can vouge for Schulz, I have learned from his video and book. But if you buy the video, you really don't need to buy the book (Hitten em like Howard). There is really nothing more in the book then the video. I have also learned from Ferguson's book and Hill's.

Schulz has another book out there called "“Straight Shooting", but I can't seem to find it anywhere. If anyone happens to know where I canbuy a copy (or borrow), let me know.

RE: Got my longbow
 

Big, I have noticed that when shooting a recurve, you should only be basically gripping the bow with the crotch of your palm...( part between your thubmb and pointer finger), and slightly touching your thumb and pointer todether on the back side of the bow......basically cradling(Sp) in the crotch of your hand. On a long bow, however, you should grip it with you whole hand........not too tight........and "heel it" when you draw back and shoot. That has what I have been taught, please let me know anyone if this is incorrect.? Also, I have noticed many times i am catching myself dropping my bow arm when releasing. In the anticipation of the shot placement, I am looking"where I am shooting" insted of relying upon my instincts, which is what we as traditionalist are supposed tobe doing. We, I'm sure all do it here and there, but the best way to kick it is to pay no attention the where the arrow ends up, but to where your bow arm, release arm, bow, release hand....etc, all end up after the release. It all has to do withconcentration and focus.

I hopethis helps a little.?