Black Powder Bullets
12-10-2007 | 03:00 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Black Powder Bullets
Hello all,
I amnew to thisforum and would like to thank QUACKER WACKER for directing me here!
I just purchased a TC Encore last year, and my goal this year was to kill a LEGAL deer with the black powder rifle. I have killed MANY MANY deer with my conventional rifles and shot guns and a few with archery equipment but NEVER one with a blackpowder!
Well since Black Powder opened and until this past Wednesday I have carried NOTHING but the T/C while deer hunting.
A few weeks back my son and I hunted Catahoula for the 3 day rifle season, that Friday morning I had two small bucks walk within 50 yards of me in very thick brush as they disappeared a third buck entered a very small opening, he was a BRUTE! Well after the smoke cleared and about 30 minutes passed I climbed down to find NOTHING! Nadda hair no meat no blood! After looking for about 2-3 hours I finally decided I missed the deer. After the next morning hunt I returned and look another hour or two and still nothing!
Well this past Wednesday while back at my lease in Abita Springs I had 3 deer enter a food plot within 125 yards of my stand, two does and a small 6 pointer. Needing to fill DMAP doe tags I zeroed in on the largest doe well again when the smoke cleared she ran off and the other doe and buck stood looking at each other, gave me time to reload (assuming I missed her)I shot AT the second doe, well she too bolted off, YES the buck remained so after reolading the encore a second time I then zeroed in on him!
Now the long narrow food plot looks like a civil war battle just took place with smoke filling the air!
After gathering my back pack and goodies from the stand I headed to the spots where the deer once stood. Much to my surprise I found NOTHING! NO hair, no blood, no meat!!!
I returned to the neighboring camp to shoot the rifle thinking I must have knocked the scope off, well at 100 yards the bullets both hit about an inch high and within 1 inch of each other side by side. I returned to the plot and looked for deer for about 3 hours, I did find the buck about 300 yards from the plot with both lungs looking like ground meat, the only blood I found was where he laid! I looked another 2 hours for the does and again 3 to 4 hours the next day and never found a single speck of blood!
The entrance and exit wound on this deer were IDENTICAL, no bullet expansion at all!And NO BLOOD to be found!
What 50 cal. bullets have you had the best and worst luck with as far as expansion?
Needless to say the encore is back in the case and the 7mm Mag is back on duty!!
Thanks for all positive feedback!
Good Safe Hunting to you all!
CB
OH and on the Monday night a Coyote entered a plot chasing two deer and after they was long gone I shot the Coyote at about 60 yards and she dropped like a BAD HABIT, but I had to dig through her hide to find the entrance and exit on her as well, I just assumed that was due to her being such a small animal, she only weighed between 45 and 50 lbs.
Also I use 100 grains (2 pellets)Triple Sevenand WAS shooting the 245 grain hollow point PowerBelts.
I amnew to thisforum and would like to thank QUACKER WACKER for directing me here!
I just purchased a TC Encore last year, and my goal this year was to kill a LEGAL deer with the black powder rifle. I have killed MANY MANY deer with my conventional rifles and shot guns and a few with archery equipment but NEVER one with a blackpowder!
Well since Black Powder opened and until this past Wednesday I have carried NOTHING but the T/C while deer hunting.
A few weeks back my son and I hunted Catahoula for the 3 day rifle season, that Friday morning I had two small bucks walk within 50 yards of me in very thick brush as they disappeared a third buck entered a very small opening, he was a BRUTE! Well after the smoke cleared and about 30 minutes passed I climbed down to find NOTHING! Nadda hair no meat no blood! After looking for about 2-3 hours I finally decided I missed the deer. After the next morning hunt I returned and look another hour or two and still nothing!
Well this past Wednesday while back at my lease in Abita Springs I had 3 deer enter a food plot within 125 yards of my stand, two does and a small 6 pointer. Needing to fill DMAP doe tags I zeroed in on the largest doe well again when the smoke cleared she ran off and the other doe and buck stood looking at each other, gave me time to reload (assuming I missed her)I shot AT the second doe, well she too bolted off, YES the buck remained so after reolading the encore a second time I then zeroed in on him!
Now the long narrow food plot looks like a civil war battle just took place with smoke filling the air!
After gathering my back pack and goodies from the stand I headed to the spots where the deer once stood. Much to my surprise I found NOTHING! NO hair, no blood, no meat!!!
I returned to the neighboring camp to shoot the rifle thinking I must have knocked the scope off, well at 100 yards the bullets both hit about an inch high and within 1 inch of each other side by side. I returned to the plot and looked for deer for about 3 hours, I did find the buck about 300 yards from the plot with both lungs looking like ground meat, the only blood I found was where he laid! I looked another 2 hours for the does and again 3 to 4 hours the next day and never found a single speck of blood!
The entrance and exit wound on this deer were IDENTICAL, no bullet expansion at all!And NO BLOOD to be found!
What 50 cal. bullets have you had the best and worst luck with as far as expansion?
Needless to say the encore is back in the case and the 7mm Mag is back on duty!!
Thanks for all positive feedback!
Good Safe Hunting to you all!
CB
OH and on the Monday night a Coyote entered a plot chasing two deer and after they was long gone I shot the Coyote at about 60 yards and she dropped like a BAD HABIT, but I had to dig through her hide to find the entrance and exit on her as well, I just assumed that was due to her being such a small animal, she only weighed between 45 and 50 lbs.
Also I use 100 grains (2 pellets)Triple Sevenand WAS shooting the 245 grain hollow point PowerBelts.
12-10-2007 | 04:07 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Black Powder Bullets
ORIGINAL: CBourgeois
Hello all,
I amnew to thisforum and would like to thank QUACKER WACKER for directing me here!
I just purchased a TC Encore last year, and my goal this year was to kill a LEGAL deer with the black powder rifle. I have killed MANY MANY deer with my conventional rifles and shot guns and a few with archery equipment but NEVER one with a blackpowder!
Well since Black Powder opened and until this past Wednesday I have carried NOTHING but the T/C while deer hunting.
A few weeks back my son and I hunted Catahoula for the 3 day rifle season, that Friday morning I had two small bucks walk within 50 yards of me in very thick brush as they disappeared a third buck entered a very small opening, he was a BRUTE! Well after the smoke cleared and about 30 minutes passed I climbed down to find NOTHING! Nadda hair no meat no blood! After looking for about 2-3 hours I finally decided I missed the deer. After the next morning hunt I returned and look another hour or two and still nothing!
Well this past Wednesday while back at my lease in Abita Springs I had 3 deer enter a food plot within 125 yards of my stand, two does and a small 6 pointer. Needing to fill DMAP doe tags I zeroed in on the largest doe well again when the smoke cleared she ran off and the other doe and buck stood looking at each other, gave me time to reload (assuming I missed her)I shot AT the second doe, well she too bolted off, YES the buck remained so after reolading the encore a second time I then zeroed in on him!
Now the long narrow food plot looks like a civil war battle just took place with smoke filling the air!
After gathering my back pack and goodies from the stand I headed to the spots where the deer once stood. Much to my surprise I found NOTHING! NO hair, no blood, no meat!!!
I returned to the neighboring camp to shoot the rifle thinking I must have knocked the scope off, well at 100 yards the bullets both hit about an inch high and within 1 inch of each other side by side. I returned to the plot and looked for deer for about 3 hours, I did find the buck about 300 yards from the plot with both lungs looking like ground meat, the only blood I found was where he laid! I looked another 2 hours for the does and again 3 to 4 hours the next day and never found a single speck of blood!
The entrance and exit wound on this deer were IDENTICAL, no bullet expansion at all!And NO BLOOD to be found!
What 50 cal. bullets have you had the best and worst luck with as far as expansion?
Needless to say the encore is back in the case and the 7mm Mag is back on duty!!
Thanks for all positive feedback!
Good Safe Hunting to you all!
CB
OH and on the Monday night a Coyote entered a plot chasing two deer and after they was long gone I shot the Coyote at about 60 yards and she dropped like a BAD HABIT, but I had to dig through her hide to find the entrance and exit on her as well, I just assumed that was due to her being such a small animal, she only weighed between 45 and 50 lbs.
Also I use 100 grains (2 pellets)Triple Sevenand WAS shooting the 245 grain hollow point PowerBelts.
Hello all,
I amnew to thisforum and would like to thank QUACKER WACKER for directing me here!
I just purchased a TC Encore last year, and my goal this year was to kill a LEGAL deer with the black powder rifle. I have killed MANY MANY deer with my conventional rifles and shot guns and a few with archery equipment but NEVER one with a blackpowder!
Well since Black Powder opened and until this past Wednesday I have carried NOTHING but the T/C while deer hunting.
A few weeks back my son and I hunted Catahoula for the 3 day rifle season, that Friday morning I had two small bucks walk within 50 yards of me in very thick brush as they disappeared a third buck entered a very small opening, he was a BRUTE! Well after the smoke cleared and about 30 minutes passed I climbed down to find NOTHING! Nadda hair no meat no blood! After looking for about 2-3 hours I finally decided I missed the deer. After the next morning hunt I returned and look another hour or two and still nothing!
Well this past Wednesday while back at my lease in Abita Springs I had 3 deer enter a food plot within 125 yards of my stand, two does and a small 6 pointer. Needing to fill DMAP doe tags I zeroed in on the largest doe well again when the smoke cleared she ran off and the other doe and buck stood looking at each other, gave me time to reload (assuming I missed her)I shot AT the second doe, well she too bolted off, YES the buck remained so after reolading the encore a second time I then zeroed in on him!
Now the long narrow food plot looks like a civil war battle just took place with smoke filling the air!
After gathering my back pack and goodies from the stand I headed to the spots where the deer once stood. Much to my surprise I found NOTHING! NO hair, no blood, no meat!!!
I returned to the neighboring camp to shoot the rifle thinking I must have knocked the scope off, well at 100 yards the bullets both hit about an inch high and within 1 inch of each other side by side. I returned to the plot and looked for deer for about 3 hours, I did find the buck about 300 yards from the plot with both lungs looking like ground meat, the only blood I found was where he laid! I looked another 2 hours for the does and again 3 to 4 hours the next day and never found a single speck of blood!
The entrance and exit wound on this deer were IDENTICAL, no bullet expansion at all!And NO BLOOD to be found!
What 50 cal. bullets have you had the best and worst luck with as far as expansion?
Needless to say the encore is back in the case and the 7mm Mag is back on duty!!
Thanks for all positive feedback!
Good Safe Hunting to you all!
CB
OH and on the Monday night a Coyote entered a plot chasing two deer and after they was long gone I shot the Coyote at about 60 yards and she dropped like a BAD HABIT, but I had to dig through her hide to find the entrance and exit on her as well, I just assumed that was due to her being such a small animal, she only weighed between 45 and 50 lbs.
Also I use 100 grains (2 pellets)Triple Sevenand WAS shooting the 245 grain hollow point PowerBelts.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm
Like they say "getta life", get a better bullet. I can suggest several, but I will wait till FG answers this. I am the resident PB hater. Chap Gleason
12-10-2007 | 04:14 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Black Powder Bullets
Congratulations on taking the buck...
Personally I would suspect the bullet performance. Switch over to a Nosler, Barnes, Speer, or even Shockwaves and you might have better luck at planting them faster. Also shot placement is still critical.
Your report on the powerbelt makes me really begin to wonder if I ever do want to try shooting a deer with one of them. Where I hunt I like to put them on the ground where they stand. So I might have to give some careful consideration to bullet performance.
Welcome to the forum and the sport. Don't give up on it...
Personally I would suspect the bullet performance. Switch over to a Nosler, Barnes, Speer, or even Shockwaves and you might have better luck at planting them faster. Also shot placement is still critical.
Your report on the powerbelt makes me really begin to wonder if I ever do want to try shooting a deer with one of them. Where I hunt I like to put them on the ground where they stand. So I might have to give some careful consideration to bullet performance.
Welcome to the forum and the sport. Don't give up on it...
12-10-2007 | 04:28 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Likes: 0
RE: Black Powder Bullets
You would not believe how many people and the different kind of problems have been had with power belts.
I shot at two deer this year and both are in the freezer; they both were shot through the chest right behind the shoulder with 250 gr Gold Dots and 110 gr 777. Last year I use 50/40 200 gr Shock Waves with the same result if you hit the right spot with a Gold Dot 250 they are laying there when the smoke clears. Some of us have had a problem geting PB to penatrate usually because we put to much powder in back of them and the they fragment like a varmit bullet when they hit. I shot a coyote with a 245 and 150 gr RS and it blew a reall big hole where it hit him and did not come out the other side. Lee
I shot at two deer this year and both are in the freezer; they both were shot through the chest right behind the shoulder with 250 gr Gold Dots and 110 gr 777. Last year I use 50/40 200 gr Shock Waves with the same result if you hit the right spot with a Gold Dot 250 they are laying there when the smoke clears. Some of us have had a problem geting PB to penatrate usually because we put to much powder in back of them and the they fragment like a varmit bullet when they hit. I shot a coyote with a 245 and 150 gr RS and it blew a reall big hole where it hit him and did not come out the other side. Lee
12-10-2007 | 05:15 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
RE: Black Powder Bullets
Guys I really thank you all for the comments and help, I will not give up on the Muzzleloader I just enjoy it too much! I was very happy with shots and placement, with my .270 Rem and 270WSM and 7MM Mag I have become custom to shoulder shot where I do NOT have to even think of a blood trail because 99.9 have all dropped where they stood, I guess from reading and listening to others I decided to try and take the lungs/heart shots. As I said above I did get full penatration and full pass through, while cleaning the deer I did find a large piece of lung material blocking the exit hole BUT that should not have prevented blood at the intial point of impact, and I said they were in a food plot with large leaf plants such as Rape and turnips and NO BLOOD was to be found.
I will read much more and decide which bullets to use for the next time I decide to start packing it again, as far as accuracy the gun is SUPER and I have 100% confidence in the shots I take, I guess I just put too much stock in the 245 grain hollow point. I guess like all new adventures we have to be taught each lesson and learn all we can, I just hate that not recovering a deer is the key point to my lessons. One KEY lesson is that I will NOT be using PB's from this time forward!!
What about the Triple 7 pellets, is the powder that much better than the pellets and since I am only using 2 pellets should I increase to either 130 grains or even 150 grains? I have the T/C Encore that is the magnum which is rated for 150 grains of powder?
With that said PLEASE keep me informed of any information you can throw at me!!
Many Thanks again!
GOOD SAFE HUNTING TO YOU ALL!!
I will read much more and decide which bullets to use for the next time I decide to start packing it again, as far as accuracy the gun is SUPER and I have 100% confidence in the shots I take, I guess I just put too much stock in the 245 grain hollow point. I guess like all new adventures we have to be taught each lesson and learn all we can, I just hate that not recovering a deer is the key point to my lessons. One KEY lesson is that I will NOT be using PB's from this time forward!!
What about the Triple 7 pellets, is the powder that much better than the pellets and since I am only using 2 pellets should I increase to either 130 grains or even 150 grains? I have the T/C Encore that is the magnum which is rated for 150 grains of powder?
With that said PLEASE keep me informed of any information you can throw at me!!
Many Thanks again!
GOOD SAFE HUNTING TO YOU ALL!!
12-10-2007 | 05:38 PM
#7
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,180
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Black Powder Bullets
I need to hunt one of these bullet proof whitetails one of these years just to find out for myself
Ive used the 245 hollow points on mule deer, only one time and that shot was close to 150 yards and dropped on the spot with a pass through shot in the lungs.
I have no advice for you other than to possibly switch to a loose powder such as triple 7 with 80 grains and give that a go.
This one i took at 80 yards with 80 grains triple 7 and a .45cal 225 grain powerbelt. She only stumbled 5 yards before rolling down the side of the mountain.
Where did you hit the deer?
Was the shot to high? Most report no blood when the shot is high.
Powerbelts are all i ever use in my rifles. Besides the rifles that have to shoot Patched roundball.
Ive used the 245 hollow points on mule deer, only one time and that shot was close to 150 yards and dropped on the spot with a pass through shot in the lungs.
I have no advice for you other than to possibly switch to a loose powder such as triple 7 with 80 grains and give that a go.
This one i took at 80 yards with 80 grains triple 7 and a .45cal 225 grain powerbelt. She only stumbled 5 yards before rolling down the side of the mountain.
Where did you hit the deer?
Was the shot to high? Most report no blood when the shot is high.
Powerbelts are all i ever use in my rifles. Besides the rifles that have to shoot Patched roundball.
12-10-2007 | 06:10 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
RE: Black Powder Bullets
Well thanks FG, no I don't think the shot was high, yes it was just above the heart but not what I would call a high shot, looking at your pictures I see that you too are a shoulder shootish 
That is my spot of choice as well especially with my conventional rifles, maybe that was my biggest problem, the more I read I see people that mention lack of pass through, that wasn't at all a problem with my shot, and maybe had I put it on his and the does shoulders, I wouldn't be typing these long winded messages. I did however read a lot of people mentioning the Powerbelts being too hard for expansion and I figured I would try a Hornady and see what happens, combined with the shoulder shot I may have 100% better results. The shots that I made like I think I mentioned were between 125 and 140 yds. Thanks again to EVERYONE who has replied and also thanks for the WELCOME comments as well. Maybe someday I could repay the favor.
CB
That is my spot of choice as well especially with my conventional rifles, maybe that was my biggest problem, the more I read I see people that mention lack of pass through, that wasn't at all a problem with my shot, and maybe had I put it on his and the does shoulders, I wouldn't be typing these long winded messages. I did however read a lot of people mentioning the Powerbelts being too hard for expansion and I figured I would try a Hornady and see what happens, combined with the shoulder shot I may have 100% better results. The shots that I made like I think I mentioned were between 125 and 140 yds. Thanks again to EVERYONE who has replied and also thanks for the WELCOME comments as well. Maybe someday I could repay the favor.CB
12-10-2007 | 06:15 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,702
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in Michigan
RE: Black Powder Bullets
I honestly wouldnt worry about shoulder shooting them, lungs always havekilled deer fine for me,but from the sounds of how powerbelts have been perforning lately I would almost go to a Conicalor a 300 grain sabot...
12-10-2007 | 06:20 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Black Powder Bullets
ORIGINAL: CBourgeois
Guys I really thank you all for the comments and help, I will not give up on the Muzzleloader I just enjoy it too much! I was very happy with shots and placement, with my .270 Rem and 270WSM and 7MM Mag I have become custom to shoulder shot where I do NOT have to even think of a blood trail because 99.9 have all dropped where they stood, I guess from reading and listening to others I decided to try and take the lungs/heart shots. As I said above I did get full penatration and full pass through, while cleaning the deer I did find a large piece of lung material blocking the exit hole BUT that should not have prevented blood at the intial point of impact, and I said they were in a food plot with large leaf plants such as Rape and turnips and NO BLOOD was to be found.
I will read much more and decide which bullets to use for the next time I decide to start packing it again, as far as accuracy the gun is SUPER and I have 100% confidence in the shots I take, I guess I just put too much stock in the 245 grain hollow point. I guess like all new adventures we have to be taught each lesson and learn all we can, I just hate that not recovering a deer is the key point to my lessons. One KEY lesson is that I will NOT be using PB's from this time forward!!
What about the Triple 7 pellets, is the powder that much better than the pellets and since I am only using 2 pellets should I increase to either 130 grains or even 150 grains? I have the T/C Encore that is the magnum which is rated for 150 grains of powder?
With that said PLEASE keep me informed of any information you can throw at me!!
Many Thanks again!
GOOD SAFE HUNTING TO YOU ALL!!
Guys I really thank you all for the comments and help, I will not give up on the Muzzleloader I just enjoy it too much! I was very happy with shots and placement, with my .270 Rem and 270WSM and 7MM Mag I have become custom to shoulder shot where I do NOT have to even think of a blood trail because 99.9 have all dropped where they stood, I guess from reading and listening to others I decided to try and take the lungs/heart shots. As I said above I did get full penatration and full pass through, while cleaning the deer I did find a large piece of lung material blocking the exit hole BUT that should not have prevented blood at the intial point of impact, and I said they were in a food plot with large leaf plants such as Rape and turnips and NO BLOOD was to be found.
I will read much more and decide which bullets to use for the next time I decide to start packing it again, as far as accuracy the gun is SUPER and I have 100% confidence in the shots I take, I guess I just put too much stock in the 245 grain hollow point. I guess like all new adventures we have to be taught each lesson and learn all we can, I just hate that not recovering a deer is the key point to my lessons. One KEY lesson is that I will NOT be using PB's from this time forward!!
What about the Triple 7 pellets, is the powder that much better than the pellets and since I am only using 2 pellets should I increase to either 130 grains or even 150 grains? I have the T/C Encore that is the magnum which is rated for 150 grains of powder?
With that said PLEASE keep me informed of any information you can throw at me!!
Many Thanks again!
GOOD SAFE HUNTING TO YOU ALL!!
Nosler Partition (either .458 rifle, SabotLoader shoots those, or .451 Hand Gun bullets, I shoot those) here is a URL: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011545350
Speer Gold Dot (SL calls them poor man's partition, bonded bullet) I use them in my FL they are only $16 for 50. Here is a URL: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000213974
Any Barnes Bullet (.451 XPB Hand Gun bullet, .458 X Bullet, .458 Origonal Barnes, Expander MZ or TMZ). Here are the URLs (I just bought some today):
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003545843
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003550025
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0003545162
TC Shockwave (bonded is best) UR: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000308215
All of them will hold up to bone and shots at difficult angles. I shoot a Crushed Rib sabot in my Omega and Knight Disc and my TC FlintLock.
You can try the suppled sabot with the bullets, but you need something tight for accuracy. So buy some MMP HPH 12s, 24s, 3petal EZ, some Orange sabots for .458 bullets and some Harvester Crushed Rib sabots:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR
here are the MMP 12s (I think they are, since they are maginum):
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0021150045HPH
So there ya go. Best Wishes on your bullet selection.
Chap Gleason