Josh the Hunter

Iwould liketo plan an Elk hunt on public land for myself and 2 other hunters for the 2007/2008 season; but need help getting started. Heck, Im so lost I'm not even sure I know which questions to ask, lol. The 3 of us have been wanting to do this for years, we really just need to be pointed in the right direction. Is this something that is possible, or are we looking to do something that would put us in over our head?

If it is possible, Im guessing I need to get a map of different states' public hunting land first? Boy I'd sure appreciate some help.

Wolf killer

Josh, You are already on the right track. You should look at a few states draw odds. Colorado & Idaho have tags in some areas thathave 100% draw odds. I think The Idaho Panhandle region is still over-the-counter for either sex. If either Idaho or Colorado strike your fancy? Order some maps.
Another option is buying a Landowner elk tag in New Mexico. I think they can be found on ebay? I have seen them listed there before.
You could talk to a booking agent? A booking agent might be willing to get you headed in the right direction for a small fee?

Good luck,

WK

usa

Well Josh, if you think you are addicted now wait and see what happens after you elk hunt. I've never been on a guided elk hunt ,always did it on my own on public land. Started from scratch just like you and now I live to elk hunt everything else other than GOD and family is second. I would suggest a 2nd season hunt in Colorado, its over the counter and the weather should be tolerable, unless you are committed to roughing it take a motel room or cabin and do day hunts. get serious without stressing out enjoy the experience ! you will need pages of advice , too much for this forum , if you get serious e-mail me and I'll help all that I can, [email protected]

Josh the Hunter

Thanks Guys. Bill, I think I'll take you up on that, I'll be e-mailing you with some basic questions. Thanks again, Josh

Alsatian

Josh: Elk hunting success is low, perhaps 25% or less. That is just the way it is. Of course, even going home empty handed you can derive great satisfaction from an elk hunt, but you need to be looking at this realistically. Even hunters who go with outfitter/guide have low success rates. You need to understand what your expectations are. Do you want a 7x7 that scores over 400? Are you ready to shoot a cow 15 minutes into opening day? On a first time do-it-yourself hunt the odds of success are pretty low, I would think most elk hunters would agree with that.

You will want to decide where and perhaps when you want to hunt. Most states have a permit drawing system for non-resident hunters. You will need to select a state and probably a unit within the state. Colorado has the most elk and the most non-resident permits. If you are not looking for an above average bull, Colorado is probably the place to go. If you are looking for an above average bull, be advised that lots of others are competing with you to hunt the units that are well known to have the above average bulls. Basically the game is to limit the number of bulls taken in such a trophy unit so some of the bulls can survive to 7 or 8 years of age when their antlers are at their optimum size. To get drawn in such units you typically have to accumulate preference points for several years. Others can provide you with more details on this than I can, as I am not a trophy hunter.

In Colorado (others can advise you on other states) there are several seasons available -- bow season, muzzle loader season, and four separate rifle seaons. You will need to decide what style of weapon you want to use. With respect to the several rifle seasons, you will want to be aware that the elk may be a different places during different rifles seasons. For example, elk may be up near tree line in the early, first rifle season and then way down low during the fourth rifle season. This may mean that a unit which is horrible for first rifle season because it contains no high country is great for fourth rifle season because then the elk have migrated down to it. Be aware that lower ground may be private ground, and hunting private ground usually costs a lot of money. The public ground may be up in the high country where only early rifle seasons are good for elk. Be aware of this issue when you do your research. I know this sounds complicated. You are liable to have to think about this and puzzle over it for awhile before it sinks in and begins to look less complicated. For Colorado I advise you to go to their Department of Wildlife or their Department of Fish and Game web site and order their "Big Game CD." This provides a treasure trove of information on draw probabilities for different units for different seasons; success rates of hunters in the different units for the different seasons; and location of the elk herds. The deadline for applying for the Colorado elk draw is the first week of April. You can apply on line, using a credit card which will be hit whether you draw or not (if you don't draw, they will refund to your credit card). You may need to pay attention on the application to select a party application since you are going as a group.

For Colorado cow permits cost something like $300 and "any sex" permits cost something like $500. In some areas, a bull is defined to be 4x4 or a brow tine longer than 5".

If you do an early season elk hunt you are liable to be hunting elk at over 10,000' and mostly using your legs to get you there. You will need to be in excellent physical condition. If you are overweight, begin to lose weight now. Combine your weight loss program with exercise. You will want to do both strength training and aerobic or cardiovascular training. You will be out of breath and have a hard time breathing even if you do great cardio training, but if you are in good condition you will spring back more quickly also you will have more endurance and be more apt to be able to keep at it all day and into the night, if you are fortunate to take an elk. Something I found valuable in my first elk hunt this past October was to work on my climbing muscles by doing a lot of squats holding weights and doing lunges. There is a lot of climbing involved in elk hunting. Don't wait to do this training. I would say that you ought to be at your target weight 4 months before the hunt and in good shape. THen with that remaining 4 months of time you need to really dig in and kick up your training a notch. Take care of your body -- eat enough protein and get enough sleep. YOu don't want any injuries that will set back your training regime, and not getting sleep and not eating right are likely going to lead to injuries if you train hard. Of course, if you are riding horses up the sides of the mountains or riding ATVs up the mountains, maybe you can get away with poor condition, but I wouldn't count on it. Conditioning is key. If you are not in condition, you are liable to sleep in late, stay in camp, hunt less aggressively. Also, if you take an elk, these are huge animals and unless you have made arrangements to have the meat packed out of the mountains, you are liable to have to carry big loads of meat out on your back on packframes. Get in shape.

The weather is very changeable in the high mountains. You need to have the right kind of clothes. Clothes that are warm when wet and are quiet when hunting. A first layer of polypropylene or other synthetic wicking material is advisable. A second layer of wool trousers and wool shirt works. Some people prefer a synthetic fleece of some kind for the second layer. A third layer of a waterproof, breathable parka is needed. You will need warm gloves and a good head covering, such as a balaclava. I also had a heavy wool vest that I wore over the wool shirt below the breathable parka that I was glad I had. I personally liked the wool a lot. It was comfortable over a wide range of temperatures. It was warm when wet. It dried out quickly when it had gotten wet. It was quiet and comfortable.

Good boots are critical. They should be heavy to protect your feet from rocks, particularly when carrying a heavy load (60 LBS of elk meat lashed to a packframe). They should keep your feet warm and not cause blisters. You will want to make sure they are broken in before you wear them on your hunt. Serious blisters can result from shoes not broken in, and blisters will stop your elk hunt in a hurry. Expect to pay about $200 for a good pair of boots. Wear thin polypropylene (or silk or other wicking fabric) next to your skin and heavy wool socks over the polypropylene. I used Meindl Perfekt Hunters and found them to be very good boots. No doubt others can recommend other suitable boots. I found the break-in period of the Meindl Perfekt Hunters to be shockingly short. I wore them on a deer hunt in Oklahoma and just walked in them and they were comfortable from day one.

You should have a headlamp with extra batteries (maybe even an extra headlamp) in your day pack. You should have at least two good knives in your day pack. You should have a good magnetic old fashioned compass in your day pack and the appropriate USGS 7.5 minute topographic maps in your daypack. I fold my topo maps and put them in a gallon zip-lock bag to keep them safe from the elements. If you fold it right, you can have two sides of the map visible through the plastic zip-lock bag. I think thata GPS provides good functionality for a non-resident elk hunter not entirely familiar with the area he is hunting, but you don't have to have a high dollar GPS to get much of the value you want. A cheap Garmin Etrex (about $120) will track your movements and allow you to either back track your complete path or let you go back directly to your truck, if you enter the truck's location as a waypoint. Knowing how far you are from your truck, how much time it is taking to travel, what altitude you are at, being able to store locations (where you saw a big rub on a tree while scouting, where you found bedding areas, etc) all can be done with this inexpensive unit. Buy a $500 GPS if you want to and you can afford it, but be aware that even a $120 GPS provides a lot of useful navigational horsepower. If you get any GPS, be absolutely sure you practice using it at home before you go out elk hunting!!!! Take extra batteries for the GPS. Carry drinking water in your day pack. Carry lip balm in your day pack. Carry sunglasses in your day pack: that fresh snow with bright sunlight at 10,000' really knifes into your retina. Carry some food in your day pack -- chocolate bar, granola, jerky.

If you are hunting with a group and you intend to keep together, give some thought to leasing a satellite phone for the duration of the hunt. These phones allow you to phone home or emergency personnel from remote mountain locations, for example when you slide over a cliff in the snow when you step on a tree trunk hiddne below the snow and break your leg and can't crawl out of the gulley you are in. It costs about $100/week ($50 to lease but then about $50 shipping cost to return the device). This is cheap insurance, particularly when shared among a group of guys hunting together. When I went hunting alone for elk this past October I had one of these satellite phones in my day pack; it helped my wife feel comfortable about my hunting solo.

Most of my comments above are directed to having a safe hunt. Actually getting an elk into your sights is another dimension to the hunt. I'll comment on that in a following post.

Alsatian

Josh: My first post was directed to the "get you there and back safely" elements of elk hunting. I'll now talk a little about shooting an elk. My knowledge on this subject is limited, and in my first elk hunt this past October -- a solo do-it-yourself hunt in Colorado first rifle season in unit 75 -- I did not even see an elk. I'm not an expert. Others know more than I do, obviously. I still have a few comments I'll share with you.

Have a plan. Have a back-up plan. Having a back-up to the back-up plan might be wise. I had a plan but no back-up plan. By noon opening day I was flushed out of my plan and left to improvise for the remainder of the hunt.My plan had been to backpack into a wilderness area and hunt about 2 miles in, thereby to avoid the pressure of hunters who won't stray far from their vehicles and yet not as deep in as outfitters and horse enabled hunters are liabel to hunt. There was a substantial amount of snow on the ground when I arrived at the trailhead at 11,400', and heavy snow began falling about 4 AM opening morning and continued all that day. I decided I didn't want to risk getting snowed in by staying overnight, so by noon I began packing out my camp. I had pre-scouted a segment of the wilderness area, but now I was stuck staying in a hotel in Durango, Colorado, driving up into the mountains, parking my truck, and hunting unscouted areas from the road. This was a low probability of success activity.

You can't know in advance what the weather conditions will be during your hunt and the weather conditions may change over the course of your hunt. Thus, your plan should be flexible enough to adopt to changing conditions. Snow is an issue. Heavy snow may push the elk down the mountain. Maybe more importantly, heavy snow may affect your ability to hunt the elk and force you to hunt lower on the mountain in a place that has less snow. Food availability and water availability can effect your hunt.

It seems most people think the best strategy is before first light to get onto a high place with good visibility into the surrounding country. At first light be glassing to find elk. When you spot elk, then you divise a plan for approaching them by stealth, bearing in mind that they are liable to finish eating soon and go into the forest to bed. To support this activity, you should have located several such good glassing spots before the season starts, for example by having gone to your hunting area in July or August and scouting. Have such good glassing spots picked out at several different altitudes on the mountain, so you can adjust to snow conditions if need be. Also, it may be that other hunters may beat you to a location, so you may need back-ups in case some other hunter takes your plan A location. Find the elk, using your eyes, for example aided by binoculars. Then you hunt them.

Some elk hunters who know a particular area perfectly can predict in advance where the elk will be, how they will respond to typical hunter pressure opening morning, and station themselves and their crew advantageously to ambush the elk as the opening day hunters push the elk. That requires deep, lengthy experience of the hunting ground which you almost certainly will NOT have on your first do-it-yourself elk hunt. This can be the situation, however, if you hook up with an outfitter/guide. If you have the $$$ hunting elk with an outfitter/guide has a lot of advantages.

When I went on my hunt there was fresh snow just about every day. I saw lots of elk tracks in fresh snow; a bedding spot one day; a fresh rub one day: I knew I was where elk generally were hanging out. I just did not see the elk. One morning there was super heavy snow falling which stopped sharply at 10 AM. I left a clearing I had been watching and began climbing up a ridge looking to cross some elk tracks. I found some and was excited because they could have been no older than 30 minutes, given how heavy the snow had come down and when it stopped. I followed them up with dispatch, but never saw the elk. Some have told me that if you follow tracks to rapidly the elk know you are back there and keep ahead of you; if you move more slowly they will move more slowly and maybe let you get within 100 yards where you can get a shot. I don't know. I just know that while I always got excited about seeing elk tracks and followed them, I suspect that this was an unproductive, nieve tactic.

Talk to experienced elk hunters. Ask them what hunting tactics work for elk. You will want a relatively flat shooting rifle of .30 caliber or larger. Almost everyone agrees the .30-06 shooting 180 grain bullets is adequate for elk; some like bigger medicine such as .338 Winchester Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum. When you start talking about using .270 shooting 150 grain bullets, then the disputes begin -- some saying they personally have killed a gazillion elk with this load, others saying they have seen hard hit elk escape after being hit with this load. Take a powerful flat shooting rifle with a quality rifle scope. Have scope covers to keep out the heavy snow until just before you are ready to take your shot.

Hope this helps. Though I failed in my do-it-yourself elk hunt, it was extremely satisfying to me. It was the toughest hunting I've ever done. The scenery was beautiful. My only disappointment was that I knew I was at a big disadvantage not having any good plan in place after I got kicked out of my Plan A.

Zim

For a good chance with no bonus points apply in the lower priced units in New Mexico first.Then if you don't draw go to an OTC Colorado unit.

Champlain Islander

Nice job Alsatian. We did a first time do it yourself elk hunt in Southern Co this year and I agree with all that you had to say. The conditioning part was key. If you are in great shape all the other aspects of the hunt will be easier.

SILVERTIP-CO

If it ain't here , it probably ain't:

http://members.tripod.com/~elkhunter2/

I hope this helps.

huntinglife

Josh,

I would take about everything that Alsation said to heart. Elk hunting is not for the weak and not for the physically unfit. That being said, my recommendation would be to contact Jay Houston and buy all 3 of his books and his DVD. His books are cheap and they cover the full spectrum of elk hunting. They are aptly named Elk Hunting 101, 201 and 301. I would also ask Jay about some of the hunts he has available. Jay is a full time booking agent as well as an author and he has some trespass hunts that are on private ranches that are very reasonable for the DIY crowd. I know some of these hunts are going to be migration hunts and some of them are going to be full spot and stalk type hunts. Either way he can steer you in the right direction. I know Jay to be an outstanding person and very well respected in the elk hunting and elk conservation circles.

Good luck on your hunt and feel free to check out my blog as well!