Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I was out paper tuning my bow today and after several shots finally got a bullet hole at 3 yards. I moved back and shot bullet holes at all distances. I did not have it sighted in so I had to aim high and left. After I had my bow paper tuned I decided to sight it in. I sighted it in and looked at the center shot. I lined up my bowstring with the center of the rest and the tip of my arrow. I then looked at the site and it was to the left of the string. I moved my site so it was directly above the path of the arrow. I shot at 6 yards and it shot about 8" to the left. I can site it in but I wouldn't have center shot. I know my arrows are a little bit stiff, but I don't think it should make an 8" difference at 6 yards, should it?

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

where your sight and where center shot is are 2 different creatures. go ahead and put your sight where you need to hit the dot. paper doesn't lie, but you'll need to walk back tune also.

and this should be in technical

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Thanks for the help gibblet. Mods if you need to move this one forum down.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Actually, I disagree most heartily with gibblet. Paper can lie like a dog and have you pulling your hair out in frustration. It can easily give you false negatives and false positives.

My answer is NO. Paper tuning does not 'find centershot,' at least not true centershot. It can only tell you where to adjust centershot in order to put the arrow on the string's plane of travel, taking into account potential cam tilt, limb twist, under/overspine issues, torque from your grip or a combination of all those things. If everything's perfect - no twist, tilt, good spine match and, most especially, no torque - then paper tuning can find true centershot for you. But, if you torque that grip..... even if you consistently torque it the exact same way on every shot.... you won't be on true centershot.

It is also possible on some single cam bows to find a sweet spot, where the bow will shoot bulletholes all day long, but have centershot way inboard of where it should be.

IMO, your pins are telling you the bulletholes you're getting in paper are false positives. When your pins are noticeably offset from being directly over the arrow, something is wrong with the setup. I would not leave it that way.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Arthur P, say I find the center shot on my bow, but it has a hard low, left tear, what should I do? Should I bring it in and have it looked at it?

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I hate paper tuning...it is frustrating. I have had great success tuning with bare shaft testing. And when you're grouping bare shafts and fletched shafts together at 30 yds, you know you're bow is in pretty good tune.

I think I'll stick with the fletched ones for hunting though!:D

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Look at it yourself, zak. Look for any signs of cracks along the edges of your limbs, around the adjusting bolt holes and at the 'V' in the cutouts for the cams. Draw it back and listen for any cracks, creaks or pops. With it drawn back, look at the wheels. Do they look straight or are they leaning? How about the limbs? Do the ends look horizontal or are they tilted? Sometimes it helps to have someone else draw the bow while you look.

Measure your brace height and axle to axle length and compare it to the specifications for your bow. Is either one off more than a half inch? Maybe your string and cables have creeped and need to be twisted up a bit.

Check your cam timing (AND sychnronization if it's a dually). How about your tiller? When was the last time you checked that?

Have you had the axles checked, cleaned and lubed in the past year? Bent or dry and dirty axles can cause tuning grief.

Those things all come under the heading of routine maintenance. Most you can do yourself.

You say you already know the arrows are a 'little bit stiff.' Maybe they're stiffer than you think.

If you can't find the trouble on your own, then take it to the shop and let them give it a going over. Most times it's something cheap and easy, just something you overlooked. Sometimes though.... Hopefully you won't be one of the unlucky ones with a bent or twisted riser.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I agree with Arthur!

To answer your question? No , I wouldn't bring it in and have "it" looked at. I would reset everything to center shot (close as you can by eyeballing , measuring , or even center shot tool) , then sight it in again.
Maybe try some bare shaft tuning , as I think it's one of the best indicators of correct spine selection. Then go back and paper tune concentrating ONLY on perfect form. Thats the problem with paper tuning. You could be getting horrible tears and someone with great form could pick up your bow and shoot bullet holes.


edited to add: you can see I was typing at the same time as the source and Arthur. Guess you guys type alot faster than me.[&:]

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

It looks like my top cam is leaning. The bottom one looks like it has a slight tilt to it, but the top's tilt is pretty noticable.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Take it in and have it checked out!

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

i'm still not sure how paper can lie. its a snapshot at that distance. i understand an arrow can be completely corkscrewing by the force applied to it and still give a bullet, i've seen the film, and give a bullet while if you back up 6 ft be way off. that's why the walk back tuning was suggested. really, why not skip paper all together. i do.

isn't it common for a right handed release using compound bow shooter to have their pins 1/8" to 1/4" to the left of the arrow in true center at rest because of the torque applied by the string and cable getting pulled over
to go through the cable slide? and isn't this issue compounded on shorter ata bows. i'm just not sure why you guys are going straight into serious issues about cracks and stuff already when most people polled in a thread about this have their pins left (AT). i also don't mean any offense cause i know you guys have the ability to go waaaay over my head.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

It might be common, but common doesn't mean correct. It just means a whole lot of people have gotten their bulletholes and, since they figure paper can't lie, they quit tuning before they actually got their bows tuned.

That can be the case, but enough torque to cause a misalignment of 1/8-1/4" of the sight pins from the arrow is a heckuva lot of torque! Not even fingers shooters - with all the lateral paradox they have to contend with - have to offset their sights like that.


There are a whole mess of problems with short ata bows. Especially short bows with heavily reflexed risers. Yes, torque is one of those problems definitely enhanced by crappy bow design.

But still, the sight pins should be over the arrow.

You ask why not skip paper tuning completely.... Actually, I'll bareshaft tune some, but walkback tuning is my bread and butter. Haven't farted around with paper tuning at all in several years now. I quit it when I decided to quit beating my head against the wall, trying to get carbon arrows to shoot worth a flip.[&:]

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

How can I tell that my cams are leaning? I don't want to eye ball it and not be right.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

thanks arthur.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Zak, every bow I have ever shot has been the same as yours, pins just to the left (right handed shooter) of the string when lining up the tip of the arrow and string as you stated. There couldn't have been a problem with every bow I have owned. The common denominator would be myself. Center shot gets you close and then you paper tune to fine tune the bow to your personal form. Shooting those bullet holes is whats important and even more so when shooting broadheads. If you can go out on any given day and shoot a bullet hole through paper then you have consistent form. I guess what I am saying is IMHO don't worry if your pins aren't perfectly lined up with the string. ( I'm assuming they are just slightly to the side). Your arrow grouping is the only thing that matters. Another thing to think about is you are lining them up at brace, what do they look like at full draw? You'll never know.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I have a test. Move your rest to shoot through paper perfect. Now change your point weight, what happens to your centershot?

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I use paper tuning to set my nocking point close. I do not use if for centershot. I can get that real close by just measuring. Then it's walk-back tuning that is required to get both exact.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Here's what I think happens to a lot of people.They pick an arrow for their bow from the charts,pick a point weight they want to shoot anf then try and paper tune.If it's not shooting bullet holes they move the rest.What you should do is set your center shot and then work on your arrow spine.Center shot is center shot.What you are doing is making adjustments based on arrow spine or maybe torque problems.Set your center shot then play with bow poundage,tip weight arrow length etc.Then it will be right.Granted you can get a bow shooting decent the other way,but IMO it will not be as forgiving.I dont have a problem with making very slight adjustments to the rest.But if you are making major adjustments and or your pins are way out of wack that should throw up a red flag.



CB

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

I tune in a very simple fashion. I shoot into a block target (or something similar). I get 2 broadhead arrows, and 2 field point arrows. I shoot the field points into the bull, then shoot the broadheads.. I correct the rest (in/out, up/down) to get the broadheads and fieldpoints hitting in the same spot. If you mess with it enough, it will be perfect. Out of the 8 bows I've owned, after doing this, I've gotten bullet holes through paper 100% of the time.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Josh,

What you're doing is similar to the guys who try to get a bare shaft to group with their field tips. I use to do that with some pretty good success. Lately, I've just been doing the walk-back tuning with broadheads and have found it to give me the best results in the shortest time.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Zak, one of the easiest and accurate methods to check center shot is to do the following. Shoot one arrow at 15, 20, 25, 30 and 35 yards using your 20 yard pin on the same aiming point. Your arrow should be in a straight line down the bales. If your pattern moves off to one side or the other you need to adjust your rest in small increments in the same direction you arrow tail off.

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Hold an arrow on the side of the cam . It should line up wih your string or be close , if not you may need new bearings or axils . One bow that has built in cam lean is the boetech pro 40 wheely .

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

Straightarrow, yep, thats exactly what I'm doing. I prefer using a broadhead tipped arrow so I know for a fact, that when I put broadheads in my quiver, they are going to be right with the field points since I initially tuned my bow for such flight.

I find bareshaft tuning to be beneficial, however, one must take into account a small amount of drop due to the lack of weight at the nock end of the arrow.. And if you put duct tape on the shaft to compensate, then its really not a bare shaft, is it? ;)

RE: Does paper tuning find the centershot?
 

There are bows that it is almost impossible to get it shooting true center shot and have the pins lined up because of torque.BUT what Art is saying is correct.These short a-a bows and highly reflexed 1 cam bows are HARD to get adjusted properly but MOST can be adjusted properly(some of the older magnesium riser are VERY hard to set up properly and in many cases require EXTREMELY stiff arrows).IT HAS TO BE DONE AT FULL DRAW.


To answer your question,center shot CAN NOT BE FOUND WITH PAPER.paper can be used to check your form,spine,and it is also useull in checking to some extent tune.If you ever move your arrow from centershot to acheive a bullet hole,THEN YOU NEED TO ADDRESS SOME OTHER ISSUES.;)



ps,My Protec is lined up straight down the middle of the pin.I tuned the bow,selected the spine and even had it rechecked on a shooting machine after I was done and was told I had it perfect.:DAs a result I get bulletholes.[:o]