Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

OK, I don't get around here very often anymore (and am too lazy to search all the threads), so please fill me in on what kind of speeds you are getting out of your 2005 BowTechs please. (details on model, draw length, poundage, string gear, and arrow weight would be greatly appreciated)

In particular I'm interested in the OG and Allegiance, but I'd like to hear from Defender owners too.

Just debating whether it's worth getting a 2005 or keeping my 80 pound Liberty, which I get 290 out of @ 5 grains per LB (which is supa-quiet and smooth as a baby's behind w/ that setup)

Thanx:D

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff, I'm shooting an Allegiance right now and with a 370 grain arrow at 63lbs I was getting 275 out of it. Since I didn't realize my poundage was that low (idiots at shop set it for me) I 've turned it up a turn and am getting pretty close 65 - 66lbs. I've gotten rid of Bohning vanes which were a whopping 12gr a piece and went to a 2in vane on my target arrows. My arrow weight now is about 355 so I figured I'd be getting around 280 or a little more out of it now. Still well over 5 gr a pound and this is with a 28" draw. I have the hush kit, string loop and peep on the string as well.

What people are finding is that the new cams are very efficient. Depending on your draw length, if you are anything of 29" or over, you'll get smoking speeds out of either. My buddy on here, PAHardwoods is shooting an Old Glory at 70lbs, 29" with a 370ish grain arrow at 295.

I think you may be very impressed with these bows. Why pull 80lbs to get the same or better speeds than you can at 70?

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Thanx for the info Muzz :)

as for this.....

Three reasons..

One: I still find the F-cam bows at 80 to pull easier than 70 on the E-cam bows. F-cam peaks a bit later but drops off immediately like an energy wheel.

Two: I'm getting 5/8" more brace outta the Liberty compared to the Allegiance.

Three: The Liberty is quieter. Not by a huge margin, but I shot a 400 grain arrow out of the 29/70 allegiance and the same arrow in my 80 pound Liberty, and the Liberty has it beat.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

JeffB--that's not matching 'apples with apples'.
Not hammering the Liberty in any way, as I also own a Liberty & the Allegiance. I found with both bows being configured evenly, my Allegiance is quieter & faster than the Liberty. But, not by much.
I agree with you when it comes to drawing the bow--the initial draw on the Allegiance acquires a little more effort, IMO, but this bow is quite a nice bow. However, we each have our own preferences, likes and dislikes--like everything, it takes a bit of time getting use to--at first I myself was a little worried--but I changed a few things on my Allegiance, including the 'grip', that made quite a difference for me--and man I can't stay away from this darn bow now!!![8D].

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

No it's not, but in this case you have the liberty right at 5 grains per pound, and the Allegiance closer to 6 gpp. The Liberty would be even quieter if I bumped up the arrow weight to match.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff,
I have not chrono'd my OG, but the birth cert said 305 fps using a 300 gr arrow at 29.5" and 60.4#'s. Keep in mind that the brace on some is higher than the spec. Mine came at 7 3/4" and it shoots like a dream. The 70# liberty at the shop is not quieter than my 60# OG, and I get way more speed. Both are set up with the same hush kit stuff and a pair of limbsavers. I love the way the OG holds. Best bow I have ever shot and my scores continue to prove that. I am setting up my 3D arrows and I will chrono them for you. I should be around 300, as I will be very close to 5 gpp.
JMAC

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Thx for the info Jmac

re: this
I did not check brace height on the one I shot...was there a change in specs for the OG once they got further into production(as compared to what is in the catalog)?

I would assume this would drop the speed ratings a tad from what is listed online and in the catalog...

hmmmm....

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

The online speeds and specs are correct, I am not sure which catalog you are looking at. The first specs that came out had theOG in the 320 ball park, and it is not. There are also 2 string and cable lengths for the OG floating around also......

OG
28" measured and dead on
64#s
330 gr arrow
286 fps
String loop, factory string doohickeys, specialty super peep with clarifier.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff,
It's my understanding that they did make a change to the OG right around the first of the year. They stepped up one cam# and changed string/cable lenghts which also changed the brace & speed just a bit.

For example:
Originally a 30" OG would have had #4 cams, 59 7/8" string, 41 7/8" cables, a brace of 7.25" and a speed in the 315-320 range.

A 30" OG produced after the first of the year will have #5 cams, 60" string, 41 9/16" cables, a brace of 7.5" and speeds in the 305-310 range.

I recently picked up a used 60lb, 30" OG & assumed I'd have to change cams to fit my draw. I typically shoot around 28.5 or 29" depending on the bow, but for some reason this OG at 30" seems to fit. I'll have to set it up & do a little more shooting to be sure, but I may just leave it at 30, as long as I'm not over-extending myself or otherwise altering my form to do so.

My OG is one with the original specs. Birth certificate reads 60.7 lbs, 300 grain arrow, 318 fps. Once I get the time to set it up & have some daylight to shoot thru the chrono I'll let you know what I'm getting.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff, my Allegiance came from the factory shooting a 350 grain arrow 302 fps at 71.5 lbs 28" with the hush kit and a single brass nock.

My set up is as follows:
407 grain arrow
65 lb. draw weight
28 1/4" draw at 80% let-off
Speeds were 273, 275, 274, 273

I'm guessing that at 71 lb. draw I'd be between 278 and 281 at that arrow weight. The new BowTechs with the E-Cams are true performers.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

That's disappointing about the Old Glory getting revamped, you might as well get a constitution with its longer a-a & brace height with the same speed.

Just picked mine up last week and it came in at 308 @ 30" 60lbs, I like this one alot better than the OG, which was one of the original ones, 318fps @ 60lbs. Seems to hold a lot better and weighs less IMHO than the OG even though the specs say differently.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff,

Excellent timing. I was about to post at thread on some of the shooting I did with the Old Glory this weekend but noticed your thread first.

Mine is a 70 pound peak weight model with a 31 inch draw length (exactly). I have the bow cranked down to 60 pounds as I felt the draw cycle will take a little getting accustomed to after predominantly shooting a 60 pound F-cam for the last year.

To give you some comparison, the Pro 40 Freedom at a 64 pound draw weight and a 31.25 inch draw length was putting out around 255 fps with the 440 grain Beman ICS hunters I was using for hunting and around 273 fps with the 380 grain Easton Excels.

The Old Glory at the previously mentioned specs is shooting the same 440 grain Beman at 266 fps and the the 380 grain Excel at 283 fps with somewhere around 68-69 ft. lbs of KE with either arrow.

Just for ....s and giggles I cranked the draw weight up to 70 pounds and shot the 440 grain Bemans at 283 fps resulting in 78 ft. lbs of KE.

....and that bow is extremely accurate to shoot. I robin-hooded my fourth arrow ever and 2nd in the last two months with that bow. It is going to be hard going back to a "shortie" for hunting...if I do. :)

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

I am not sure exactly how the specs changed with the various generations. I do know that my bow holds like a rock and shoots very well for me. I cannot be more pleased with my choice of bow. To me, it is the perfect blend of shootability, speed, BH, and ATA. My indoor scores have jumped and I can't wait to get it set up for 3D, which will happen next week, after indoor sectionals this weekend. I will take this bow elk hunting this fall as well. A great all around bow.
JMAC

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

HuntingBry, I'm curious as to your setup. I'm almost identical to you except I'm shooting a 370 gr arrow and my speeds mirror yours. This of course is unless the chrono is off. I did however have mine turned back to 63lbs when I did this.

One thing I never realized and you guys might all laugh at me, but speed really depends on how far off of IBO spec you are. If you keep your arrow at the 5gr per pound, you'll get pretty close to what the BC says. My arrows are around 5.4 gr per pound and am getting well under what I expected. Now if I cranked that bugger up to 70 lbs, I should be closer to the 290ish mark I would think. My BC was 70.6lbs, 28" draw 350gr arrow @ 305fps

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Below my speeds are listed. I did change to a heavier spine this last weekend so my speed has chnged. I now am shooting 7595 GT @294fps. Arrow is 380gr.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

I am shooting an Allegiance with a 28" draw set at 70 lbs 370 gr arrow and am getting 289 fps.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Small world, Double Lung. I believe I've got your OG. Bought it from the guy who bought it from you over on that other site. Guess the 3rd time is a charm because it's finally found a home.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

My Old Glory is one of the new spec models........my BC read 30"/60.5#/300gr=306fps.

My actual chrono speed with the usual loop around 2 tied in nock sets and a Fletcher Tru-Peep and a 357gr CXL 350 Select = 290 fps.

That's about perfect for what I want it to do. I can add a little arrow weight to keep me in the ASA speed limits and can drop down a bit and shoot some lighter MBR or Open class arrows in the mid to high 290's for a flatter trajectory for the longer yardages.

The bow honestly draws better than any I have ever owned and shoots lights out.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

The birth certificate on my old glory says 289 fps at 60 lbs , 28"s with a 300 grain arrow . The draw is all I have measured myself , and its dead on . My old glory has the older string/cabel lengths , witch add up to a slightly shorter brace I believe .

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Muzzy, I meant to post what I have on my string in the previous one, but forgot. I have a loop and Fletcher True Peep served onto my string in addition to the hush kit. I saw your previous post about concerns over speed. With an arrow 40 grains more than yours I should lose about 17 fps more than you, but make up about 5 +- with greater draw weight. So, I should be 10-12 fps slower than you all things being equal.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

In theory, you're correct HuntingBry. I really need to get to another Chrono somewhere and shoot through it again. I did crank up my poundage and am now closer to 66-67lbs. I am experimenting with some lighter setup stuff right now. Mainly just ditching the Duravanes I have been shooting and going to the Blazers. That alone is a 15 grain drop in arrow weight.

I should just crank it to 70 and forget about it. the 66 or so pounds that I have now feels much less to pull to me, but I like the comfort factor I get from it being less. Maybe I'll experiment with it a bit.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

muzzy, don't get too caught up in the numbers. I don't know what applications your looking for, but if the BC says you're getting 305 at 5 grains per inch then you should be fine. If you want to use the bow for hunting keep you hunting arrow weight up a little bit, because let's face it I'm shooting a 407 grain arrow 274 fps which is 68 ft. lbs. of energy. If I went to 350 grains and would be shooting about 295 fps at a 65 lb. I'd still be at 68 ft. lbs. of energy. You should be fine where you are now.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

HuntingBry, I'm really not, I just feel like tinkering some;)

I would like to see what speed gain I can get, mainly for 3D. I plan on setting up a special set of arrows just for 3D and a slightly heavier setup for hunting. What goofed me up was the fact that the shop that I bought the bow scaled it at 65lbs on their scale. Every other scale I checked since then showed only about 63lbs. I put a full turn in each limb and am at about 66 or 67 pounds now. That, and I didn't realize at the time that a 4" Duravane weighs 12.1 grains per fletch![:-]

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

MM08,
I just bought a set of arrows for exactly that. I got some GT 22 pro's. I have some little baby 1.75" vanes and will use 80 or 90 gr glue in points. These arrows should scream out of my OG, and will be for 3D only. I have my "heavy" hunting arrows from last year that were great flyers.
I love to tinker with this stuff. I am even jumping to the open class this year, fancy target sight, scope and all.

JMAC

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Finally had time to fling a few through the chrono.

60lb, 30", Old Glory

Birth Certificate; 60.7lb, 300gr, 318fps

My speeds with loop, 2 tied nocks, and tru-peep (no string silencers) at 60 lbs:

335 gr @ 296 fps
420 gr @ 274 fps
510 gr @ 243 fps

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Thanx everyone for the feedback/comments. I'm still undecided, LOL, but leaning towards an OG.

BTW, no defender owners?

and I just HAD to comment on this:
Would you like me to email you an "I told ya so", or would you prefer I do it right here? :eek::D I knew if you gave them some time, you'd figger it out ;)

BTW Frank...in your comparison of the Pro40F cam and the OG..are you saying the OG is @ 60 pounds or is it set @ 64 pounds to match the P40F?

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Well Jeff...you were partly right. I am too stubborn to give you more than that. :D I do have a Diamond Triumph on order though and that bugger is only 31 inches....;). For hunting...those shorter bows just have too special of an appeal for me to just give up on them completely.

The Old Glory is set right at 60 pounds while the Pro 40 Freedom is set at 64 pounds. I have the Pro 40 cranked all the way down as I wanted to get as much speed out of it as possible. At 64 pounds it is still an absolute dream to draw with that Freedom cam.

The draw cycle on the Old Glory is so much different from the Freedom cam that it is taking a bit to become accustomed to. That is the reason I have it backed off to 60 pounds. After another week or two I will probably bump it up 3 or 4 pounds though I really don't see a reason to considering the numbers it is putting out. :)

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Hey PA...Hows it going.Hope all is well:)

Dont' know if you know but when you back out on the new cams in pondage your letoff can really go to poop..........A couple twists in the top cable will get you a good valley and letoff.

Good luck with the new bow(s):D

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

RA,

I was unaware of that. The valley and letoff did not feel significantly different when I adjusted the draw weight. Is it possible that the cam (in relation to my draw length) may be playing some part in my perception of it? I will have to check when I get home later.

On the other hand, did you find that adding twists to the top cable changed the timing significantly?

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff, I bought a Defender. I haven't shot it much as it has #6 cams (28"), and I'm waiting on #4s (29"). It was the only 60#er the shop was getting, so I decided to get it and order cams. What shooting I have done has been very good. Groups at 35 yds are very tight, even though I fell so crowded at 28". Nothing happens but the arrow is gone at the shot. I'd say as quiet as my Liberty. Vibration/recoil are very nearly the same. The Liberty may exhibit slightly less. I wanted something more like the Mighty Mite I liked so well. This bow is way better. Speed may be a bit less, though not much (BC 292 at 60#, 28"). I expect it should shoot my 385 gr hunting arrows in the mid 270s. It's set up with a CJ Pro II, TT original, and Wild Thing stabe. Hush kit is still there.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Thanx for the clarification Frank. What I'd give to have your draw length :eek::D

And Thanks Phil for the info on the Defender. Don' know why but I've got some interest there too. Suspect cos I liked my little shorty OB so much....

.....or the fact it's a hundred bucks cheaper :D;)

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Jeff,
Just buy the OG and don't look back. It has got to be one of the best all-purpose bows out there. You know you want to......

JMAC

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

It boils down to..do I want max speed with a bit less recoil? or a bit more stability and smoother draw?

But you are prolly right jmac....the OG is plenty quick it seems...and since I won't have the time, facilities or inclination to shoot as much as I used to... it's more forgiving nature will be an asset.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Humor Me please---Nubo is checking his 'CAMS' again.

Hey John, don't take me seriously please!!!

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

Just as an "add-on" fact, I was shooting last night and checked the timing on the cams for the first time since initially opening the box. Both cams have rotated slightly showing that the cableas stretched. I did not measure it at the time but I would guess about 1/8th of an inch.

As advertised, both cams moved the exact same amount. No noticeable difference in the accuracy level, in my hands, or in the chronographed speed of the bow.

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

welp..I have the day off and was gonna head up to the shop this afternoon to blow some more arrows through both, but jes remembered they are at some sportsmans show..not open.

Reckon I'll head up on Monday.

Thanx again everyone for the info. much appreciated :)

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

PA,, sure your string didn't stretch??

RE: Humor Me please (for equalizer cam bow owners)
 

WWAG,

I was guessing cables because of the way the cam rotated. Normally I would say string because there is a better chance since it is longer but the cam position would indicate otherwise.

I will double check. My assumption was based on past cam designs. With the way the Equalizer cam is rigged you may very well be correct.