carbon v/s aluminum
 

what would I gain by switching to carbon arrows.

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

More noise. And sometimes strange problems. Boohoo

Nic

Edited by - Nic Barca on 09/05/2002 03:21:24

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

What are you looking to gain? That's what you need to ask yourself.

Aluminum Advantages; Excellent consistency in quality, weight, spine and straightness. Pretty much any 2315 will shoot just like any other 2315. Aluminum is generally heavier per spine class than carbon, producing a quieter shot and more energy on target. Aluminum arrows that are damaged can often be repaired and straightened.

Aluminum Disadvantages; Aluminum is metal and will bend and fatigue over time. In other words, they wear out. Thin walled aluminum (.014 and thinner) are fragile, too fragile for a hunting arrow, IMO. They are easily bent and ruined. Thicker walled aluminums from .015 and up are far more durable, but that durability comes at the cost of arrow speed. Bumping an aluminum arrow with another aluminum arrow, or bouncing it off the riser of your bow, produces a game spooking metallic noise.

Carbon Advantages: Generally lighter weight per spine class for better arrow speed, though they are producing heavier carbons these days. Much more durable than aluminum arrows <font color=orange>of comparable weight</font id=orange>.

Carbon Disadvantages; Carbon arrows are carbon fiber filaments glued together in a thermoset resin matrix. Repeated shots into a target causes those resins to break down over time, and the arrow loses straightness and spine. In other words, carbon arrows wear out.(The favored saying that 'carbon is either straight or broken' is an urban legend.) They can also crack with a collision with another arrow or hard object. A crack that you don't notice can be dangerous, to your bow and to yourself. You have to carefully inspect a carbon after any collision or miss. They are very much like wood arrows, in that respect.

Carbon arrows, due to the construction process, have inconsistencies in straightness, spine and weight, all of which affect accuracy. On the low end of the price scale, you might only get 6-8 out of a dozen arrows that will shoot a broadhead consistently. The longer your arrow length, the worse the problem. With carbon, the more you spend, the better the quality. High end carbons are MUCH superior to low end carbons.(Same with aluminum, of course, but there aren't the same glaring differences in quality from the lower end aluminums like Gamegetters to the high end X7's.)

Edited by - Arthur P on 09/05/2002 07:52:51

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

Arthur, you forgot trying to pull the Carbons out of a 3-d target. What a pain in the ---.

I'm curious though, I never shot carbons with that new type of finish on them (the camo type, I believe). I always just shot the natural type dull black carbons. Are the new finishes any easier to get out of a 3-d target?

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 09/05/2002 08:45:40

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

Haven't shot any of the new camo finishes and none of the guys at the club are using them either, so I haven't had the pleasure of trying to draw one forth from a McKenzie. The Easton Epics I'm shooting have a very smooth finish on them, but they're still kinda sticky.

But you're right. Pulling an unlubed carbon out of a target is a pain. Especially with arthritic hands, shoulders, back and then top that off with 'other problems'. Like I said once before, it will get you reaching for the linament AND the Preparation H, hoping all along you don't confuse the two when you start rubbing the stuff on.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

Also, carbons dampen oscillation better than aluminum.
Properties of carbon arrows aloows 1 spine of arrow to work well with more variables whan aluminum (usually, you'll only find 3-4 spines in a carbon arrow range, vs. dozens for aluminum). This means you have a little more forgivness with carbon when setting up the bow.
As Arthur said, the better carbons are MUCH better than the cheap ones. To that I'll add the BEST carbons are often as good or better than the best aluminums as far as spine/weight/straightness consistancy are concerned. (I have found Game Tracker Carbon Express 3D selects to be especially good in this matter.)

All in all, I feel the carbons are more durable, and last longer than aluminum (If they do wear out.....it SEEMS TO ME that they wear out slower than aluminums.)

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

I said it before and I will say it again almost every hunting show I watch with people using carbons after the shot their arrows always break, alot of times in the animal. Now how does that make carbons more durable?

Edited by - timbow2 on 09/06/2002 22:31:56

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Properties of carbon arrows aloows 1 spine of arrow to work well with more variables whan aluminum (usually, you'll only find 3-4 spines in a carbon arrow range, vs. dozens for aluminum). This means you have a little more forgivness with carbon when setting up the bow. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

The downside to having one arrow with a 20 pound spine range is that you rarely get a perfect spine for your particular setup. I never have been very satisfied with anything that comes packaged as 'one size fits all.' With the dozens of aluminum sizes available, you can fine tune arrow spine to perfection.

Timbow, I don't know what hunting shows you watch, but the ones I've seen NEVER show a busted arrow. They never show an arrow stop dead after just a few inches of penetration either (unless your vcr has a stop frame button and you watch the sequence frame by frame). The sponsors wouldn't allow the producers to show their products doing such things.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

I have to agree with Arthur. You CAN find the &quot;perfect&quot; spine for your head/fletching etc with aluminum. I use &quot;the archery porgram&quot; to fine tune my carbons. I find a head/arrow combination that gives me the FOC I'm looking for, and a carbon arrow with the &quot;perfect&quot; spine.
Aluminums, you can use the components then match the shaft, carbons you choose the shaft, and match components...IF your as much of a perfectionist as I am.
I also agree....Timbow2, what videos are you watching showing every carbon arrow break? I haven't seen one yet. Even the cheaper videos done with non-pros...still have yet to see a carbon break on film.
Wanna know which is tougher? bend each 45 degrees and see what happens. Or step on some carbons then aluminums.
In the time I have used carbons (last 5 years) and aluminums (14 years) I am confident that carbons are MUCH tougher arrows.

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

I've seen Ted Nugent pick up many half arrows the thing is I watch alot of them so it's hard to remember which ones for sure ,but they usually don't show it right to the camera and make issue of it its usually when their doing their track job they pick up half an arrow either the braodhead half or the fletched half, and then go staight to the animal.And Im not saying the break with the force of the shot but when the animal runs off with 3/4 of an arrow sticking out its rib cage it probably snaps on some brush or trees,or maybe hits a hard rock on the other side from a pass through, or even bone. Maybe I watch too much TV

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>In the time I have used carbons (last 5 years) and aluminums (14 years) I am confident that carbons are MUCH tougher arrows. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I shot wood arrows, with a very short period of fiberglass arrows, for 27 years before ever picking up an aluminum arrow. Shot a mix of wood and aluminum for 20 years now. Mixed in some carbons over the past 3 years. As far as I'm concerned, carbon is closer to wood in many respects. Both develop cracks. Hairline cracks that often aren't readily apparent, but will cause all kinds of impressive noises and visual effects the next time they're shot. Trads check their wood arrows for cracks when they hit something hard. People shooting carbon MUST do the same thing.

Carbon is tough. That comment has been repeated so many times that it's fast becoming legend. Problem is that people get sucked into the legend and forget that, even though carbon arrows are tough, they are NOT indestructable. Then people get slack in their safety and forget to check those tough arrows when something goes wrong.

I am confident that carbon arrows are tougher than aluminum too. But I'm not so confident in their toughness that I trust them. They can hurt you if you get careless, so you have to be aware of their vulnerabilities and respect them.

Aluminum might bend when it hits something hard, but at least the damage is obvious and I'm not going to have to worry about it blowing up in the next shot. I'll take it home, put it in the straightener and get it back straight within .001. In that respect, aluminum is more durable than carbon. It can be fixed. Carbon can't be.

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

Arthur,
It seems to me from your replies (unless I'm just missing something) that you would recommend aluminum over carbon arrows, yet you said you're shooting the Easton Carbonaero Epics. For what reasons do you personaly choose to shoot carbons? I've also learned in my short time here that you are a proponent of shooting heavier arrows. Carbons are generaly considered to be light arrows. Are the Epics on the heavier end of the carbon spectrum? Is there any way to find out how much they do weigh (couldn't find any info on the Easton site)?

RE: carbon v/s aluminum
 

Jeepnut, I am shooting these Epics because they are the first carbons I've tried that were worthy of wearing broadheads. I'm very content with aluminum arrows. VERY content. But I've been blasted, flamed, roasted and parboiled over my aluminum fixation for so long that I at least want to say that I have hunted with carbon. It's an experiment, as far as I'm concerned and, unless I get the living crap impressed out of me with some kind of magical performance, I'll be going back to aluminum at the end of it. And I'll still be flappin' my yap about heavy arrows.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

My 32.5&quot; Epic 340's with 125 grain heads and 4&quot; vanes weigh 470 grains, on the nose. At 60 pounds of draw weight, that puts them at 7.83 grains per pound of draw weight. What I consider to be medium weight arrows. Some consider them hardly anything more than flying anvils. They're a flat 130 grains less than my preferred XX75 2315's.

As far as weight, Epics are almost exactly the same as Gold Tip XT's. 340's would compare to 7595, 400's would compare to 5575.