Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
01-13-2005, 04:15 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oh USA
Posts: 1,584
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
Mark, I suspect a 27" Allegiance would feel better to you. The draw curve is such that it has the weight at the front, then just eases into the wall. A shorter draw would definitely be a better feeling bow to you. I've shot the SB, and felt that while the draw was smooth, it was also fairly stiff. The bow is absolutely quiet and exhibits low recoil/vibration. Both are top of the line bows. The final decision will, most likely, come down to personal preference.
Above is a paste from the other thread.
Double Creek:
muzzyman88:
I guess the quality of the bows just brings that out. 
(please note smileys)
Above is a paste from the other thread.
Double Creek:
It's really comical to watch all the BT diehards stick up for their favorite company.
The Bowtech crowd on here is really sensitive.
(please note smileys)
01-13-2005, 04:17 PM
#32
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 932
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
I would bet anyone here a whole $5 (I know big spender ) that if they tried an Allegiance at their comfortable draw weight and length for a few weeks, and then tried to go back to their old bows that they would find Ol' faithful harder to draw than they remember.
01-13-2005, 07:39 PM
#34
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
Of course it is going to be harder. You are pulling 2 inches more than you are used to on top of 4 more pounds. An extra 2 inches of draw is a huge difference from what your body is accustomed to.
Of course it is going to be harder. You are pulling 2 inches more than you are used to on top of 4 more pounds. An extra 2 inches of draw is a huge difference from what your body is accustomed to.
Saying the draw was not smooth is incorrect. It has a very smooth draw. No bumps or drop offs at all. Now if you say it wasn't as easy to draw as you expected is another thing.
You need to compare "apples to apples". 4 more pounds and 2 extra inches makes a huge difference. I hope you are able to shoot a 27 incher to really get a feel for how great the bow is.
We will see........I will shoot it again for sure......along with a Defender and Patriot 05.
01-13-2005, 07:47 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
Who you callin' sensitive!?
Seriously these guys bring up some valid points, first off the Switchback is a very nice bow, not gonna deny that fact.
I spoke to a few guys at the ATA show who I trust and who have shot both at the same weights and lengths ......and they told me that pretty much if you blind folded them and they didn't have different grips that it would be very hard to tell them apart at the draw. I was told that both feel like their stated weight , it's just that they transition extremely smooth making the effort feel less over the entire draw making the cam system more pleasing to draw.
They said that the Switchback might be a touch milder on the shot but that the Allegiance was quite a bit faster. (I would drop names for you but they are both well known bow testers and asked that their comments be off the record until they can publish their reviews so I will respect that) They were VERY impressed with the Allegiance.
The way that the draw cycle is front loaded on the Allegiance is such that if you are drawing a bow that is too long you will be carrying that weight over a 2" longer portion of the draw cycle carrying it into your shoulder muscles. When it is right for your draw length it has already broken before you get that far. I would say the exact same thing to someone who felt that the Switchback drew harder than the Allegiance given they were reversed. Even 1" too long will make a big difference.......our bodies are not simply not used to that extra length.
Trust me if I tried to draw a 32" bow it's not going to feel pretty regardless of WHAT make or model it is, unless it's a much lower draw weight than I'm accustomed to, that's a fact.
To me Atlas is correct, the Equalizer cams feel like whatever weight they say they are........If I'm drawing 60# it feels like 60# in my book on these cams. The difference is in the fact that the draw force curve is so smooth in transition and front loaded that the effort decreases rapidly as you slide through the draw........it does not stack like the more agressive single or dual cams on the market. The Infinity cam on the Patriot is an agressive cam.
But if Atlas was to draw one to his correct length and same weight as his Patriot he would immediately feel what I am talking about. The "E" cam bow draw cycles are ergonomically correct, meaning that this is the way we SHOULD be drawing bows, and it shouldn't take long for your muscles to forget the harder way.
I would bet anyone here a whole $5 (I know big spender
) that if they tried an Allegiance at their comfortable draw weight and length for a few weeks, and then tried to go back to their old bows that they would find Ol' faithful harder to draw than they remember.[:-]
It's not a defense of the cam system, it's just that by the nature of it you really must draw it at your particular draw length , and I would say the same of the Switchback to anyone who said that they tried one above their personal specs and found it tough to draw.
Who you callin' sensitive!?
Seriously these guys bring up some valid points, first off the Switchback is a very nice bow, not gonna deny that fact.
I spoke to a few guys at the ATA show who I trust and who have shot both at the same weights and lengths ......and they told me that pretty much if you blind folded them and they didn't have different grips that it would be very hard to tell them apart at the draw. I was told that both feel like their stated weight , it's just that they transition extremely smooth making the effort feel less over the entire draw making the cam system more pleasing to draw.
They said that the Switchback might be a touch milder on the shot but that the Allegiance was quite a bit faster. (I would drop names for you but they are both well known bow testers and asked that their comments be off the record until they can publish their reviews so I will respect that) They were VERY impressed with the Allegiance.
The way that the draw cycle is front loaded on the Allegiance is such that if you are drawing a bow that is too long you will be carrying that weight over a 2" longer portion of the draw cycle carrying it into your shoulder muscles. When it is right for your draw length it has already broken before you get that far. I would say the exact same thing to someone who felt that the Switchback drew harder than the Allegiance given they were reversed. Even 1" too long will make a big difference.......our bodies are not simply not used to that extra length.
Trust me if I tried to draw a 32" bow it's not going to feel pretty regardless of WHAT make or model it is, unless it's a much lower draw weight than I'm accustomed to, that's a fact.
To me Atlas is correct, the Equalizer cams feel like whatever weight they say they are........If I'm drawing 60# it feels like 60# in my book on these cams. The difference is in the fact that the draw force curve is so smooth in transition and front loaded that the effort decreases rapidly as you slide through the draw........it does not stack like the more agressive single or dual cams on the market. The Infinity cam on the Patriot is an agressive cam.
But if Atlas was to draw one to his correct length and same weight as his Patriot he would immediately feel what I am talking about. The "E" cam bow draw cycles are ergonomically correct, meaning that this is the way we SHOULD be drawing bows, and it shouldn't take long for your muscles to forget the harder way.
I would bet anyone here a whole $5 (I know big spender
) that if they tried an Allegiance at their comfortable draw weight and length for a few weeks, and then tried to go back to their old bows that they would find Ol' faithful harder to draw than they remember.[:-]It's not a defense of the cam system, it's just that by the nature of it you really must draw it at your particular draw length , and I would say the same of the Switchback to anyone who said that they tried one above their personal specs and found it tough to draw.
I respect your opinion Matt and I agree that everything you said should be true. The two things that I experienced that didn't jive though are the longer and heavier Switchback was still buttery smooth and my Patriot felt 20 times easier and smoother to draw then the Allegiance.........is this just because I am so used to the way it draws??
01-13-2005, 10:54 PM
#37
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
Matt is right. For example I had a 03 BLK TB model set at 65# I loved this bow Then I bought a 04 pat. w/ 80# limbs set at 76#. halfway thru the 3d shoots I decided to shoot the BLK at one of them and pulling it back felt like being in a tug a war with a pit bull. I just got so use to the single cam Pat. So maybe thats why to some people it felt harsh(the Allegiance) at first. The EQ. system is a two cam sysytem(slightly diff. than the Trad. two cam) but still a two cam
01-14-2005, 04:53 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
It's not really about single or twin. You are used to a certain kind of draw, and the Equalizer draws differently. We went round and round on this on Rangeball's thread about force draw curve. Personally, I prefer the front-loaded draw like the these bows have, but if you are used to something else, I can see where you wouldn't like it. For me, any increase in draw weight during the last half of the cycle, followed by a sharp drop will have me handing the bow back and saying "NO THANKS!" BTW, there were twins with that kind of draw dating back (at least) to the XI Extreme ('95 or '96?). I'm guessing the Switchback doesn't peak quite as early as the Allegiance.
01-14-2005, 03:21 PM
#39
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
Last night I confirmed what someone had said earlier, it is all a matter of personal preference. Last night I drew a Switchback and found that it felt more harsh to me than the Allegiance. I noticed that during the draw cycle that the peak weight on the Switchback was several inches later. I was actually having trouble getting it over the hump because I was near full draw (yes I am a weakling)
If I was buying a Switchback I would have went with a 60 lb. max because it was all I would want to draw. With the Allegiance I went with 70 lbs. because 60 just felt too light.
If I was buying a Switchback I would have went with a 60 lb. max because it was all I would want to draw. With the Allegiance I went with 70 lbs. because 60 just felt too light.
01-14-2005, 06:32 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 3,215
RE: Shot the Allegiance and Switchback today
I wouldn't call it smooth.........and it definately felt every bit of 67lbs.....which I was surprised at because I heard all these people saying that 70 felt like 60 etc......