Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I'm not here to bash this product. I think it is probably the most practical design for a mech out there. But Sat. I called in a 5x5 elk for my buddy who is shooting a High Country bow at 65# Beman ICS 400s at about 250 fps. He took a perfectly broadside shot at 15 yards. The arrow only penetrated about 6-8 inches. Luckily as the elk ran off it fell on the arrow. After waiting about 2 hours and recovering the elk I inspected the entrance wound. Well stuck between the hide and the ribs was the tip of the broadhead. The tip had curled and broke off the tip of the ferrule. Essentially the tip disintegrated on impact with the rib. Again, I'm not talking just the tip blade! The part of the ferrule with the allen screw to hold the blade also broke off. So essentially the BH entered the chest cavity with no tip. This elk would not have been recovered if not for the fluke of it actually tripping. Now this was not a a huge bull by any means, 600-650lbs max. If this had been a truly big bull 900+lbs I not so sure the arrow would have penetrated. I just thought I would give you all a heads up. I think this broadhead would still be very effective on deer sized game but I don't think it is strong enough for elk and bigger game. I guess it is up to you but I'm glad I got Muzzys on my arrows after that near disaster.

"What we do in this life echos an eternity"

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Thanks CG!
I for one am a proponent of the KISS system and mechanical broadheads just add several layers into the single point of failure calculation. Me I want as much going for me as I can have and by eliminating anything that can go wrong(with in my control) I have less things to worry about when something does which it ALWAYS does!

Congratulations to your partner on his Elk and Good Luck getting yours!


Greg

"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Man, that's a BAD deal. Thank goodness you didn't loose the animal. I will say for the record that the Steelhead or GK Demon wouldn't have malfunctioned with it's SOLID STEEL construction.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I'm sure the folks at Barrie Archery would like to see the remains of that head. Might give 'em some ideas on how to improve the design. But I wouldn't make any rash judgements about the head on just one failure because it could be a fluke, one of those odd accidents that just happens. If a rash of this kind of failure turns up, then there is definitely a problem.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I agree ArthurP. Could have been a fluke but once bitten..... If you look at the head you will see where the tip blade slides into the slot that the metal is very thin and there is not much there holding the tip blade in. It was like it "peeled" the tip blade and the ferrule off on the rib.

Amos, I'm going back up on Thurs. so hopefully we'll get another in the bag.

"What we do in this life echos an eternity"

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Now 5shot is rather fond of the Snyper and I believe he ranked it as his top mechanical based on his tests....

..and I would agree with him that it is definitely one of the better ones out there, but I have been and always will be a big fan of the Steelhead 100s. The Pathfinder tip is the reason why. As Amosgreg stated above the type of damage you described would not have happened to the Steelhead and yet it would have given as good if not better penetration.

Last season I lent one of the Snypers to a good buddy of mine. He missed a nice 8 pointer the next day...(not because of the broadhead but because of his shooting skills...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)....but, when he recovered the head he found the entire front of the head...the blade and part of the ferrule....was bent pretty well.

As you stated CG for deer sized animals the Snyper is outstanding but I tend to prefer heads that &quot;punch&quot; rather than cut on thick skinned game animals.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I am a very big supporter of mechanical heads, and I use the Snypers. Last year I blasted one through the far shoulder blade of a deer, and except for a slightly curled tip it came through OK. I do see how something like you described could happen especially on elk sized animals. I think if I were heading out for elk I would have some fixed blades on my arrows, if not cut-to-tips. I love mechs., but you need to know your gear's limitations. I'm glad to hear you were able to get the bull.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

It's really hard to say what happened with that particular head. I do know that 5Shot said the Snyper performed as well as Muzzy in all his tests including steel drums, plywood, etc...now why would this head penetrate steel drums but yet fail on a rib? Probably a fluke however one reason many frown on mechanicals on elk sized animals. Like mentioned, it probably wouldn't have done this on a whitetail sized animal but if the head was faulty in any way, it may have. Had this head been used as a practice head or had been shot before? Another reason to inspect the equipment prior to a hunt.

I am a proponent of fixed blades heads, however the Snyper did perform perfectly in my own field test on my best buck to date last season.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

for elk I would stay with a good fixed blade head but I will second IL-Cornfed on the Golden Key Demon, man those are wicked little broadheads that can take about anything you want to put them through! the solid steel body & tricar tip is just awsome.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Yes it could be a fluke, but a couple of points.

Your friend's KE figures are pretty low. Assuming an arrow weight in the range of 400 grains which is about average for an ICSH400, he's getting a very marginal amount of KE (55 FP) for Whitetails, let alone Elk. Through experience I've come to prefer AT LEAST 60 pounds of KE for whitetails. Broadside and 15 or not, Elk are tough. Thicker hides, thicker ribs, etc..you need more oomph behind the head. I'd want at least 68 to 70 foot pounds of KE for Elk.

Granted, the head should not have failed as it did; I would send the head back to Barrie.

And like Frank, I like those Steelheads. Along with the WASP Jak-Hammers, they are the most fool proof mech's on the market.

JeffB

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I know his KE was marginal but he insisted on shooting them. All I can say is if the head had held together I think he would have blown through that elk considering it cut the rib and penetrated 8&quot; with essentially a blunt tip.

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

CG, thank you for the information. As to what happend I don't have a clue, but that is one of the main reasons I don't recomend anyone use mechanical heads on animals larger than deer. The KE of the arrow was a factor for sure, but the heads should not have buckled under the pressure. Now one thing to keep in mind is that we really don't know when the head broke, before or after the elk fell on it? I think we all tend to asume that it happend prior to the elk falling, thus the poor penetration, but with a low KE level and an untuned bow could also be the problem. I don't know if your friends bow was tuned or not, and I know the tip can curl up on the snypers if you hit somting really hard that won't give any, like a rock( I had that happen after penetrating fully through a deer). Again I still really like the snypers but not for elk. They are not perfect, but better than most mechanicals. The Steel heads ferule is stronger, but the snypers blades are stronger. I would also suggest you send the head to Bruce Barrie and Barrie archery. I know he will want to take a look at the head, and will be intrested in your story.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I'm about 99% positive it had to have happened on entry, not when he fell. The tip and broken ferrule were between the hide and the ribs, not in the wound, plus the broken arrow was plugging the hole. I was directly behind him when he shot and his arrow flew perfectly. I truly hope it was a flaw and like you said I think that this BH is great for deer sized game but no bigger. I'm pretty sure my buddy is convinced also.....he was sweating bullets when he saw the penetration on his arrow.

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Sorry man but nocking the broadhead because it didn't blow through a 600 lb elk undamaged from a bow generating KE in the mid 50's is being a bit hard on it. That would be like me poor mouthing my 4x4 because it won't out run a Corvette. It wasn't designed for that purpose. I would never shoot a animal the size of a elk with a mechanical head. Steelheads and demons are both fine mechs as well and do have a very tough center ferrule. However, I don't think they would have penetrated a inch deeper from that rig on an elk that size.
And just because the ferrule would have survived better doesn't mean the blades would have stayed intact on elk sized game.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I wouldn't even go as far to say mechs shouldn't be used on elk size game. I'd be willing to bet there are hunters who have used the snypers on elk with outstanding results. I'd lean more towards this being an isolated incident where low ke and facts that weren't disclosed (poor shot placement , poor arrow flight) being the major factor in this case.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

CG,

Just a little more if you wouldn't mind. The tip of the ferrule holding the tip broke, just below the set screw? Was that assembly intact or did it fall apart? Was the break in the ferrule clean i.e. did it crack or did the ferrule bend?

That info would be very helpful.
Thanks

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

1st, I think that while the KE wasn't as high as SOME would suggest using, he had enough (I KNOW I am in the minority here....but there are LOTS of guys useing less to do more) to go a LOT more than 8&quot; into an elk. The braking is why it didn't go deeper.
I am SURE the steelheads would have worked better.
I am currently testing different materials for use in broadhead tests. (Coconuts were fun...bent the hell out of the Muzzy Blades...slightly bent Shockwave blades...with some damage to the ferrule) When I finish my tests, I will post results. Next up....compression molded toilet seat covers to simulate shoulder blades!

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

To clarify my earlier statement further and to add some after the last few comments...I do agree that low to mid 50's in KE is definitely below what I would recommend for elk-sized game.

However, if a person's bow is generating 65 ft. lbs or more of KE then I see no problem whatsoever with shooting the Snypers or the Steelheads and expecting to get full penetration.....provided the shot placement is there.

But, and here is the good part, should the shot be slightly off &quot;perfect placement&quot; I would definitely say that a trocar style tip, such as the Steelhead, or Muzzy for that matter, has a better chance of staying intact and causing damage than a cut on impact tip such as the one found on the Snyper and any of the typical cut-on-impact style broadheads. I would much rather have a head fully penetrate with one or two blades shearing off than have a head not penetrate at all and have the blades remain intact. An entrance and an exit wound is better for tracking than just an entrance wound...especially if the hit is higher up on the animal.

Just my take on this.


















Edited by - PABowhntr on 09/04/2002 06:09:13

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

For all the reading comprehension challenged:

He did not bash the product! He simply told of an experience that he witnessed. For all of the KE comments, I guess it is a good thing that he didn't have 70 lbs of KE because the head would have probably disentegrated. Seriously, how could not having enough KE make a head bend. Really! I can hear it now

&quot;Billy Bob you gonna hav to crank your bow up, you keep bending these broadheads&quot; &quot;Yes, siree you gonna hav to start shutin harder for you rurin that there whole pack&quot;

PS Why is it that everyone who has a bad experience with mechanicals has to have a poorly tuned bow??????

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

SA,

I think you are taking this a wee bit out of context.

What some of us are implying is that the poor penetration might have been related to low amounts of KE, and the head disintegration related to something else (either a design flaw, or a fluke) despite the aforementioned poor penetration, not because of it.

JeffB :)

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

CG...I'm glad your buddy got the elk. It could have been alot worse.

I still can't understand....if you can get a fixed head to fly good out of a well tuned bow,(and you CAN), WHY would you use a mechanical head?????
I see no advantages at all. I realize they works for alot of folks, and it could have been a fluke...or whatever, but I just don't understand why anyone would want to take a chance of that happening...ever.....no matter what the cause is.

just my opinion.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think you are taking this a wee bit out of context.

What some of us are implying is that the poor penetration might have been related to low amounts of KE, and the head disintegration related to something else (either a design flaw, or a fluke) despite the aforementioned poor penetration, not because of it.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Or maybe I am not taking it out of context and the head disentegration IS what caused the poor penetration. It never fails when someone comes here and tells about a mechanical head failing, someone that shoots that head comes to it's defense by accusing the shooter of having a bow that is &quot;untuned&quot; eventhough they have no idea who the person is or how well there bow is tuned. I have had #$@# poor penetration from mechanicals and I don't have marginal KE or a poorly tuned bow. Hell, I have set up 500 bows(must have learned something) I have had penetration problems with Spitfires with perfectly broadside shots not going in but 6 inches or so and I know just like I know the sun will come up tomorrow, that my bow was tuned. So I am just saying that there is not always another perspective or a spin on things.
Maybe and I know this is tough for some of you but just maybe the head just failed. I think the one thing that most of the KE arguments have produced is an agreement that broadhead choice is one of the most important factors in penetration. If your broadhead fails it really doesn't matter how much KE you have you aren't going to get good penetration.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think you are taking this a wee bit out of context.

What some of us are implying is that the poor penetration might have been related to low amounts of KE, and the head disintegration related to something else (either a design flaw, or a fluke) despite the aforementioned poor penetration, not because of it.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Or maybe I am not taking it out of context and the head disentegration IS what caused the poor penetration. It never fails when someone comes here and tells about a mechanical head failing, someone that shoots that head comes to it's defense by accusing the shooter of having a bow that is &quot;untuned&quot; eventhough they have no idea who the person is or how well there bow is tuned. I have had #$@# poor penetration from mechanicals and I don't have marginal KE or a poorly tuned bow. Hell, I have set up 500 bows(must have learned something) I have had penetration problems with Spitfires with perfectly broadside shots not going in but 6 inches or so and I know just like I know the sun will come up tomorrow, that my bow was tuned. So I am just saying that there is not always another perspective or a spin on things.
Maybe and I know this is tough for some of you but just maybe the head just failed. I think the one thing that most of the KE arguments have produced is an agreement that broadhead choice is one of the most important factors in penetration. If your broadhead fails it really doesn't matter how much KE you have you aren't going to get good penetration.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Whoaah..easy there my friend…No reason to get your knickers in a twist.

I understand what you are saying, and it’s quite possible the reason for the poor penetration was the failure, but It’s not any more viable a scenario than the scenario that I and some other’s presented ..at least with the facts as we have them.

I’m not defending the Snyper because I shoot them, in fact I’m not “defending” them at all; it should not have failed, period (as I said in my first post). Nor am I accusing anyone of bashing the product or shooter (I didn’t say that, at least). I’m just saying that with facts as we have them, the reasons for the failure and the poor penetration COULD very well be a separate matter; no more…no less. I don’t think that I’m “putting a different spin” on it, just for the sake of doing so (as you imply); it’s simply a reasonable deduction to make that different scenarios could very well have occurred when we are not presented with all the facts or the facts are unclear. Neither of us (nor anyone else here) are in any position to declare outright that our conclusion is fact, to do so would be ignorant.

While I did not make the comments regarding poorly tuned bows, I understand the reasoning people have. I think the truth of the matter in these cases actually revolves around the tuning of the shooter, and not the equipment. By this I mean that your bow can shoot perfect bullet holes all day long, and the archer can goof up the arrow flight by inducing torque due to nerves, trigger punching or whatnot under hunting conditions (hence leading to poor arrow flight which is the mech’s biggest bane to reducing penetration).

Now as to your comments regarding other brand mechs not working well despite high KE and proper tuning, I absolutely agree, ESPECIALLY regarding the Spitfires. While it’s a rugged design, I have seen too many instances of poor penetration from these heads (regardless of KE or tuning) to think that poor penetration has just been a fluke.


Oh, BTW, if numbers of bows set-up determine legitimacy in this discussion then do not bother replying, I’ve got you beat already my friend <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cheerio,

JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

BOWFANATIC,
I assure you that I am not trying to trick anyone here......arrow flight was perfect and shot placement was perfect. The head simply came apart not other variables other than a flaw in construction or design could have had a part to play. The elk was perfectly broadside with no angle. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. I just thought everyone should hear what happened. If you don't beleive me than don't but please don't insinuate that I'm trying to be deceitful. If that was not how your post read than I am sorry.

Buckfevr,
The break was clean with no bending.

I don't see how penetration could be an issue. I'm sure a broadhead with a tip will out penetrate a BH with essentially a blunt tip. Is there any question that if the tip had remained intact that penetration would have been better? I'm sure that it takes quite a bit of energy to break a ferrule in half.

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Wow, this thread went in a direction I totally did not expect. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Let me go on to say that regardless of whether the incident occurred because of a fluke in the design or because of some previously preventable factor I still would recommend the Snypers as one of the best expandable designs out there.

I do sincerely hope that a situation such as the one with your friend does not happen again.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

<font color=red>SA, sorry, I had to delete for skirting the profanity filter. That's why the filter is there.</font id=red>

<font size=1>Also, know that I'm not singling you out. I always edit posts that skirt the filter. It's what I do. I did this to a member a couple weeks ago, turns out he is a real loser and sent me hateful threatening emails. He's banned, we didn't need him around. I didn't single him out either. I hope you don't take it personal, I enjoy your posts, we just can't have the filter skirted. Thanks for your cooperation. </font id=size1> Rob

Edited by - Rob/PA Bowyer on 09/04/2002 22:24:32

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

SA,

It's quite apparent you are a a bit hostile about the matter, at least that is what I'm &quot;reading&quot; in your posts. I don't think I'm alone here in that matter, but perhaps I am.

Secondly you inferred that some people were saying &quot;X&quot;, and made it clear you didn't like it when people said &quot;X&quot;...I'm simply explaining that I did not say &quot;X&quot;..I said &quot;Y&quot;. That is called clarification, which I felt neccesary since you made no clear distinction as to whom you were talking to.

You also apparently didn't see the winking smiley face after my &quot;#'s of bows&quot; comment...

Hint: winking smiley face = &quot;I'm joking&quot; or &quot;I'm kidding&quot;

And with that I'll bow out now since it seems no reasonable discussion is not going to take place on the subject at hand.

Cheerio

JeffB :)

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

OK, who has the stick!!!? :)

Edited by - c903 on 09/04/2002 13:04:24

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

5 Shot makes an excellent point. You don't know when the head broke. I shot a 900 lb. 5x5 elk 2 yrs. ago with a muzzy 4 blade - 90 grain. The broadhead was trashed after finding it in the elk - all blades gone with the tip broken off... I'm fairly sure the broadhead broke apart when the elk was sliding down the steep moutain side and not upon impact. Regardless the muzzy didn't do much better with more KE then it sounds like was used with the mechanical in this thread... The shot was very close, about 8 yards.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
CG, thank you for the information. As to what happend I don't have a clue, but that is one of the main reasons I don't recomend anyone use mechanical heads on animals larger than deer. The KE of the arrow was a factor for sure, but the heads should not have buckled under the pressure. Now one thing to keep in mind is that we really don't know when the head broke, before or after the elk fell on it? I think we all tend to asume that it happend prior to the elk falling, thus the poor penetration, but with a low KE level and an untuned bow could also be the problem. I don't know if your friends bow was tuned or not, and I know the tip can curl up on the snypers if you hit somting really hard that won't give any, like a rock( I had that happen after penetrating fully through a deer). Again I still really like the snypers but not for elk. They are not perfect, but better than most mechanicals. The Steel heads ferule is stronger, but the snypers blades are stronger. I would also suggest you send the head to Bruce Barrie and Barrie archery. I know he will want to take a look at the head, and will be intrested in your story.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

dwcp99,
The arrow shaft was lodged in the rib. So unless the tip worked it's way through the middle of the shaft, it happened before the arrow entered the elk.

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

CJ,

That it broke clean is interesting. Where did it break exactly? By the set screw? That is the weakest spot. That could easily be a manufacturing fluke. If not, they could easily fix that, they could use a smaller head on that set screw and beef up that part of the ferrule.

I use this head and I really like the design, but some of us have discussed concern about the strength of the ferrule previously. I think this is an interesting discussion.

Someone is going to have to put a trocar tip on this design.

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Buckfevr,
If you look at the head with the tip out, the profile is shaped like a U. It broke off on one side right at the &quot;bottom&quot; of the U and about half-way up the taped hole on the other side of the U. Make sense? I'll try to get it back from my buddy so I can post a pic.

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

I went ahead and decided to sacrifice my snyper practise head. I wanted to see where it would break. I placed one of those lanscaping stone blocks, the kind that are used for retention walls, up against the basement wall about 3.5 feet off the ground. I'm shooting a Mathews FX around 67LBS 28 inch draw, 7595 goldtips, the bow is well tuned. The shot was from 15yards, I should be at around 60 ft/lbs or close to it at that distance.

The arrow hit and bounced back towards me.

The tip buried into the concrete block where it remained and the ferrule broke off right at the bottom of the U of the tip. It broke in a fashion that is very similar to what CG described. And the ferrule peeled back a bit, I'm sure that would have inhibited penetration.

That said, I have seen what this head does to a whitetail spine and to several whitetail ribs. For me this is still the best mechanical head for whitetails, with one caveat. Don't hit the shoulder. I would have to say that for game larger than a whitetail think fixed head, I like the rocky ti100 because of the strength of the solid ferrule.

FWIW

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

First , Silentassassin , this board would be a much better place without your condescending , smart allick replies!!! And for the record , I dont believe you've ever setup 50 bows , let alone 500!
When you said you had good ke and a broadside shot and your spitfire only penetrated 6&quot; from a properly tuned bow?? I'm sure the question of the day from all spitfire users would be ; Where was the shot placement? I'm sure the spitfire users on this board would agree , your full of b.s.!

CG , I apoligize if you thought my post was intended to accuse you of falsely representing a product. When I made my post , I was simply trying to calm down the fella who had a bug up his drawers , and was accusing you of giving snypers a bad rap. I just stated that not all of the circumstances were known , other than low kinetic energy , like how well tuned his bow was , shot placement , branch ricochet , etc.
And YES , I do use snypers! But , if I was foolish enough to shy away from a product everytime I hear of a bad experience , I dont know what I would be shooting , or even driving , because every product seems to have a bad consumer experience sooner or later.
Anyway , thanks for the report , I appreciate hearing the good and the bad experiences.

Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/05/2002 00:28:59

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> But , if I was foolish enough to shy away from a product everytime I hear of a bad experience , I dont know what I would be shooting , or even driving , because every product seems to have a bad consumer experience sooner or later.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

...not my Kia!!

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sorry, I had to be &quot;Mr. Smarty Pants&quot;...I just couldn't resist.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

And because I can't leave well enough alone, I went ahead and repeated the test using a rocky ti100. Everything the same I hit about 1 inch above where the Snyper hit. Sparks flew on this one. About one third of the very tip of the ferrule of the rocky ti broke off, it shattered the area of the stone where it hit, as opposed to sticking into it, like the head of the Snyper did. The broadhead was driven back into the goldtip shaft about 1inch. The blades were still intact and were held in place. Except for the little bit of damage to the tip the ferrule, the rocky ti looked to be in excellent condition. That is one strong ferrule. That ferrule essentially exceeds the strength of the Goldtip7595.

One thing about that Snyper though. Even though the ferrule gave out to the load that was placed on it, it was real impressive to see how that entire blade tip and the part of the ferrule that holds it completely embedded into the concrete.

So anyway I think it does illustrate a lot of the things that we talk about and are concerned about. That a setup have adequate energy for the broadhead that is being selected, that it is properly tuned and that the broadhead be matched to the game that is being hunted.

Again just my thoughts on the matter.

Edited by - Buckfevr on 09/04/2002 23:01:39

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Buckfvr, you go boy and thanks for the sacrificial broadhead tests, outstanding my man! That's testing to the extreme....I like it!<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Seriously, thanks, alot of people wouldn't go the those measures and it's information worth knowing. I'm trying the Snypers for a second year.

It obviously failed, why, hard to say, wasn't there, didn't see the head prior to the shot, I've shot Muzzy's for over 10 years, I've intentionally shot them into block walls, trust me, they bend, break, come apart......elk have tough bones, I wouldn't have used a Snyper on elk, I'd pick Muzzy, in fact I shot my bull with a Muzzy on the end of a Beman Trophy Hunter 70/90, blew through and 10 yards more. Would a Snyper have done that, don't know, didn't use them. I'll use Snypers on whitetails again this year, if I get out elk huntin again, Muzzy will be my weapon of choice.

IMHO!

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

Man this thread got ugly fast!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> CG, thank you again for the report. It does sound like the head broke prior to the elk falling, and that is not a good thing. Without actual field reports on heads we don't really have all the information, and reports such as yours are very valuable in helping we bowhunters choose the broadhead that best suites our needs. Again Thank you.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

After rereading this thread I got to thinking, some may say that my broadhead tests are too severe, after all what deer or elk has plywood, tires, and steel on their hide or in the body? The snypers did very well in my tests, penetrating the plywood as well as any fixed blade head, and going through one side of the steel drum without a problem, and only minor blade bending. The Tip and ferule were in excellent shape. Then I used one on a deer last year, the head preformed super on the buck, passing through and opening quickly. The shot was 23 yards with a bow pushing 66 ft/lbs of energy and well tuned. After passing through the deer it hit a rock in the ground, and the tip and ferule bent. Actualy the blade tip was fine, but the Ferule bent in and near the location that CG described. This is a weak point in the head, no doubt, but I still believe it is the best mechanical on the market. I have had many mechanicals fall to peices in the steel drum, and some even bounced off! It is cases like the one described in this thread that give me confidence that my tests are actualy fair and usefull in determining what heads are good, and what heads are not. I have seen more damage to broadheads going into animals and skipping across the ground in actual hunting situations than I do in my testing. What this tells me is that anything can and will happen when shooting into game, especialy animals as large as elk! I beilieve what CG said happend, and That is a problem, it may never happen again, or it could happen the very next time someone takes the same shot. Just choose your equipment wisely, and don't pick your broadhead based on a perfect shot, but rather choose one that will give you the best chance to recover your game with those shots that are not so perfect, or when something goes wrong. This is one reason I never recomend mechanicals for animals larger than deer. They really are not made to takle game that large, in my opinion anyway. For Those who insist on using them, I still recomend the Snypers or Steel heads as the best choice, but do so at your own risk.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Snyper report....NOT GOOD!!!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>First , Silentassassin , this board would be a much better place without your condescending , smart allick replies!!! And for the record , I dont believe you've ever setup 50 bows , let alone 500!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Aw, shucks<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> That hurts coming from you<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> I was really hoping to have impressed someone with your &quot;qualifications&quot;<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> When you said you had good ke and a broadside shot and your spitfire only penetrated 6&quot; from a properly tuned bow?? I'm sure the question of the day from all spitfire users would be ; Where was the shot placement? I'm sure the spitfire users on this board would agree , your full of b.s.!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
The shot was right behind the shoulder and whether or not you like it or like me that is where I shoot 99% of them. I don't care whether you or anyone else here thinks I am full of BS because I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I get good laughs out of guys like you fanatic. There are a lot of you &quot;wannabees&quot; in here that think they know something and you run off trying to spout it to everyone that will listen. If you will notice the only time I really step in is when some !@$!%$% like you is preaching to some guy that his buddies bow wasn't tuned(eventhough you have no idea) and low KE caused a broadhead to bend (how stupid is that) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Like me or not I have probably forgot more about this stuff than you know.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Babye
Silentassassin


Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;